Best ammunition for M1 Garand

[NATO Boy]

Any of you fellows who are M1 fans have any info on how the M1 stood up to the winter weather in the Korean War, the Korean winter is alto like a Canadian winter , i know i read that the M1 carbine had problems with stoppages in the cold weather, i don't know if the Yanks were expecting this type of climate when they first landed in Korea, probably didn't have the proper lubricants to keep these weapons firing, I'm' only guessing, i know there are better infomed people than me to answer this one, maybe--" Wes the "AUSSIE Gun Plummer" can help us out on the Korean cold weather problem. thanks :CD:

General Douglas MacArthur reported on the M1 to the Ordnance Department during heavy fighting on Bataan that:

    "Under combat conditions it operated with no mechanical defects and when used in foxholes did not develop stoppages from dust or dirt. It has been in almost constant action for as much as a week without cleaning or lubrication."

An excerpt (sp?) from M1 GARAND 1936 TO 1957 (Joe Poyer and Craig Riesch)

"Troops who used the new rifle in the South Pacific were astonished at how well it stood up to the salt water corrosion, the sand, mud, tropical rain - or in the Aleutians - to the freezing fogs and snow."

As for proper lubricants, the M1 used two grease types for maintenance; small arms grease pots and cold weather grease pots. When neither could be acquired, motor oil (the same grade used in trucks and armoured vehicles, e.t.c.) could be used in a pinch (and apparently worked well!)

Cheers,

Mickey 

 

[1feral1]

Wes, my friendly neighbour was kind enough to give me some post-war M2 Ball (dated '56?!? I think); when I get it to a range I'll let you guys know how good it shoots.

Aslong as the ammo was kept cool and dry and appears cleans, she'll be right mate. Happy shooting!

As for the M1 carbine in cold weather ops. The Yanks have had LAW (Arctic use oil) oil for yonks, its pretty thin and for cold weather, but in combat situations especially 50yrs ago, when the supply system was under pressure and proper winter boots were in short supply, I would imagine engine oil, etc was used. In that case one would be better off keeping the carbine dry or have little oil on it. Although the M1 carbine was 'piston' driven, it could NOT be readily removed, as a special armourers tool was required. The piston was the floating type, and freely moved back and forth, even when dirty. There was no spring involved.

Like all rifles and small arms in general, its up to the user under thte proper guidance from Sec Comds and 2ICs to keep up the maintenace on their weapons, and ensure that they are clean and ready for use.

I used to own an M1 Carbine, an original genuine GI Saginaw Steering and Gear, 1943. Nice one too, shot it many times in all seasons, but it did not get the abuse it would have under battlefield conditions. That M1 came out of SIR Wpg in 1976 for a whopping $109.99, and a copy of my drivers licence for ID. Those were the days!

M1 rifle and M1 carbine, too entirely different weapons and different calibres.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Its prohibited under Canadian law

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

Maybe in some Very distant future would the libreals consider changing there stupid gun laws, but I don't see it happening,
also was the FN C1A1 easily modified into a full automatic weapon?
I heard storys from a friend who was in the Res in the early '80's about how the used to use a toothpick to modify the guns to full auto,
I can't see that ever being made legal again.

 

[Craig B]

Uh, well could that law not be changed?

Of course it could be changed ..... but it won't .

Can't have armed peasants can we ?

Craig

 

[NATO Boy]

Can't have armed peasants can we ?

Sure we can...but it'll allow said peasants to make more "Michigan Militia" type zaniness!   

 

[Craig B]

Sure we can...but it'll allow said peasants to make more "Michigan Militia" type zaniness!    

Indeed .

The peasants might even begin to think that they " know better " than the Lords that they plow for . Might not want to pay their 51% taxes or other such nonsense . 

Craig

 

[redleafjumper]

Well there are some of us that are eligible to buy prohibiteds firearms like the FN, I only one one FN C1A1 (an 8L) and I'd be perfectly happy to own a few more.  I picked up an M2 carbine and an M1 Garand several years ago and they are both lovely rifles and great fun to shoot.
Regarding the best ammunition for the Garand, shooters should be aware that while the rifle is quite robust and tolerant, when reloading ammunition for it one must be careful to use powders in the medium burning range (Sierra Rifle Reloading Manual, 4th edition page 428).
According to Sierra, Garands can be damaged by improper powder selection even if the loads themselves are safe.

 

[teddy49]

The danger to Garands from hot ammo is to the lllllllooooooonnnnnnnnggggggg op rod.  When the pressure curve from the ammo is too sharp, the rod tends to bend slightly.  This may or may not be visible.  But either way it will impede function.  The winchester ammunition mentioned previously in the thread, 150 gr FMJ, (I think packaged in USA boxes) is one of the few if not only commercial loading designed specifically to mimic the pressure curve of M2 ball.  I seem to recall the american PMC also had a loading in this catagory, but I'm not 100% on that.  The winchester is about the cheapest you'll find .30-06 anyway.

 

[NATO Boy]

So Winchester .30-06 150gr is the best commmercial option......seems to be concurrent with the majority.

Now does this mean ANY Winchester 150gr .30-06 (SP, Accutip, FMJ, JHP, Core-lokt, e.t.c.) or just FMJ 150gr?

If it's the first one, I can get Winchester .30-06 ANYWHERE!  But if it's the other one (crosses fingers) then at least I know what specifics to look for (medium burning powder, 150 gr. FMJ, mil surp brass, non-corrosive boxer primers.)

 

[teddy49]

Just the FMJ

 

[NATO Boy]

Well, I finally got a chance to take the Garand for a test run today; I even found awesome ammo I don't have to import. Stay tuned....the range results are coming up

 

[NATO Boy]

Last week I went to my gunstore and was going to buy some .30-06 SP 150gr. when I came across something better. Remington is remarketing their UMC (UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE Co.)   brand of ammo (or at least it's not in a yellow box now) for budget shooters. I ended up picking up the .30-06 UMC since this stuff is a clone to the M2 Ball in ballistics (and it's full metal jacket to boot.) Then a week later (today) I set off to the range and put some rounds down range....


My targets of choice....12'' Medium Pizza boxes (Mmmm....deep dish)


A badass view of the business end pointing down range, isn't she pretty...


My first Grouping at 50 yds

My second grouping at 50 yds

It's easy to tell I'm no marksman by stretch of imagination (heck, I'm fortunate if I do BETTER than pass on the PWT1,2, and 3) but what you can tell is how easy it is to group shots with this beast. I also experienced the "7th shot stoppage" with the first 2 clips fired; I ended up finding out my clips were loaded opposite of what they should be and reloaded them, no more "7th shot stoppages."

First Grouping at 100 yds

Second Grouping at 100 yds


Same as before; first group shite, second much better. For reference again, the box is 12'' (some of these groupings are around 3'' ish.)

...and then of course...I ended up trying some double-taps (yes, like the movies) which are much harder with the Garand than it seems (bloody thing has a hearty kick.)  

What really impressed me is that it shot like this with a rough zero...I didn't have to change windage or elevation at all! 

Edit: Edited for spelling...whoops!

 

[teddy49]

Just curious, how were your clips loaded opposite of what they should be?  That Garand uses Dual Position feeding so I can's see how that would be an issue.  I've never paid attention to how I put the 8 rounds into the clip, just that there were 8 rounds in there, and I've never had feeding trouble with mine.  Now if I could just keep the trigger group from falling out on the 6th round.

 

[NATO Boy]

Teddy,

The way they're supposed to be loaded is the top round is to the right...don't know why (the US Army Manual states this makes loading the clips in the weapon easier for right-handed shooters, although I have yet to notice the difference.)

As for the "seventh round stoppage," the history behind the problem was mainly from the earlier receivers that Springfield Armory (back then Springfield Arsenals) manufactured. The problem came from a certain cut in the right hand receiver wall that caused the 7th round to either misfeed or prematurely eject with a spent case (had that happen too.) They later fixed the issue by milling the receiver a bit differently (mine's a '44, so it's not a problem child early model.) However, my problem came from loading the clips differently (top round left) and disappeared after I reloaded them to the USGI standard. After that, she fed beautifully.  ??? Maybe it's because my clips are brand new (shrugs) and need to be broken in a bit? Other than that, nothing else is really wrong...

Glad to hear your Garand works good; you're joking about the "trigger group falling out on the 6th round," right?  :rofl:
If not...

 

[teddy49]

Wish I was joking.  I guess the trigger guard doesn't have enough tension on the back of the trigger group, so it vibrates itself open when I fire rapidly.  I've been trying to decide whether I should just bend it closed a bit to give it more tension, or if I should just go hunting for a new trigger group.  Don't know what that would cost, or if I could even get it into the country.  Incedently mine's also a 1944 production Springfield.

 

[NATO Boy]

That sucks  ;if it helps (I'm sure you already know this,) www.marstar.ca sells most (if not all) of the parts for M1 Garand trigger assemblies.
And they're located here in "our home and native land," no duties, no customs bull$hi7. Pricey, but still feasible.

 

[1feral1]

As for the "seventh round stoppage," the history behind the problem was mainly from the earlier receivers that Springfield Armory (back then Springfield Arsenals) manufactured. The problem came from a certain cut in the right hand receiver wall that caused the 7th round to either misfeed or prematurely eject with a spent case (had that happen too.) They later fixed the issue by milling the receiver a bit differently (mine's a '44, so it's not a problem child early model.) However, my problem came from loading the clips differently (top round left) and disappeared after I reloaded them to the USGI standard. After that, she fed beautifully.   ??? Maybe it's because my clips are brand new (shrugs) and need to be broken in a bit? Other than that, nothing else is really wrong...

The grand ole Garand!

My M1 is a Dec 41 Springfield Armory ser 4115XX, and I've owned it since 1978 firing 1000s of rds out of it, and I can safely say, I have never even had a stoppage, even with blanks (yes I had heaps of these and a BFA which is wierd enought to describe, yet how it attaches).

I have loaded the 8rds clips either way, and again never a problem. I have always used G1 M2 ball or Mil Spec, say PMC for example, and even IVI 150 or 180gr SP ammo for bear hunting. Again nver a problem. US .30 tracer, AP and API worked well too.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[NATO Boy]

Wes,

I discovered something else that was kinda cool (but might be bad after firing, I took my gun home and started cleaning it that evening when (to my surprize) I was able to unthread the gas port nut with my fingers (and not a wrench / combo tool.). All that time I was firing with a loose gas nut and yet the Garand worked fine. I felt this was testament to how well the gas system works in this rifle. As for cleaning, it seems the only areas you need to clean badly are the gas parts and the barrel; other than brass flakes in the receiver floor, everything else was clean! I like...

 

[NATO Boy]

...so there I was, having dinner with my family and relatives on Dec. 24th. We decided to exchange some gifts early; my first present (from my cousin) came in an old cardboard box...

Hmmm.....what mil-surp antique could this be....it had heft to it, but I couldn't even begin to guess, until, I opened it...

Two words... HOLY crap!

The box was filled with 100 rounds of M2 BALL; all of it is dated '42. Although this stuff has seen better days, it's still completely intact and useable.

Pics and headstamps to follow....