Be in shape when you arrive on course...

[CallOfDuty]

2.  Make a CF PT Test scored out of 100 (or 300, or whatever) and put that score on PERs.  Give weight to higher numbers and max scores.

Love this idea...

 

[mellian]

I have NEVER stretched before playing, does that make me "silly"?

Yes, and if you ever get injured or pulled something that could have been prevented with proper warm ups and stretching it would be your damn bloody fault.

I agree with that.
Because I tend to do the opposite, this is what my trainer always reminds me off: Warming up is for before any exercise, stretching is for after any exercise

Can mix it up, just as long the muscles are warm and loose. 8 minutes of tabata, some stretching, and then shower works well (when I manage to maintain such a routine for a length of time).

At derby practices, we try to do: light skating warm ups, endurance, stretch, various drills that may or may not entail more endurance, 'cold down' endurance, and more stretching.

There is nothing wrong with using sports for PT.  In fact, you do more good by getting 30 folks  out for soccer than you do when three show up for circuit training.  However, as has been said already, they must be real sports that involve actual exercise.  Bowling doesn't count!

Does roller derby count?

 

[Alea]

Yes, and if you ever get injured or pulled something that could have been prevented with proper warm ups and stretching it would be your damn bloody fault.

Wow... uncalled for answer!  :

Anyways, stretching BEFORE you exercise or run does not do anything good for your cold muscles.
Warming up before is good.
Stretching after.
Can a Medic or a trainer on this forum correct me if I'm wrong as this is what I've always been told before.

Alea

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

2.  Make a CF PT Test scored out of 100 (or 300, or whatever) and put that score on PERs.  Give weight to higher numbers and max scores.

This is what we currently do at RMC. Our PPT is conducted 3 times yearly and is scored out of a total of 500. A pass is 250, average is around 320, over 400 is superior and over 450 is exceptional. The scores are tracked and posted so that your chain of command can see them and it becomes one of the markers for what bar positions (leadership positions) one can hold. While it is not a sole factor, it is one of 4 and with our last Director of Cadets, it was definitely a big marker for any wing wide positions.

 

[DexOlesa]

Wow... uncalled for answer!  :

Anyways, stretching BEFORE you exercise or run does not do anything good for your cold muscles.
Warming up before is good.
Stretching after.
Can a Medic or a trainer on this forum correct me if I'm wrong as this is what I've always been told before.

Alea

Yes you should warm up before (for roughly 5 minutes) then do some stretching. Complete your workout and then a 5-10 minute cool down including some light stretching.

 

[Alea]

Yes you should warm up before (for roughly 5 minutes) then do some stretching. Complete your workout and then a 5-10 minute cool down including some light stretching.

Thank you
Then I will really have a talk with my trainer tomorrow as I was never told to stretch before any type of exercise. Everyone always said that stretching cold muscles is not really doing anything.

Alea

 

[DexOlesa]

Thats why you warm up first, now do you HAVE to stretch its debatable I know that after a few minutes of jogging or jumping jacks etc. I feel much better during my workouts if i stretch out whatever i'm working that day, then the stretching at the cool down is just to make sure they don't contract and cramp up on you (this is what I was always told by trainers when i was in competitive sports) However during a competition i rarely followed their advice. I hated warming up. I was in poor shape and it made me tired running around the gym to warm up running 5 or 10 laps of the gym was a full blown work out for me  :-[

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yes, and if you ever get injured or pulled something that could have been prevented with proper warm ups and stretching it would be your damn bloody fault.

The exercise & fitness expert at 17 Wing, who is very well qualified and certified said that while warming up is a necessity, stretching before is not.  Being familiar with his experience and credentials, he is the most authoritive voice I've heard on the subject.  From him, the key is warming up for the actual activity you are going to be doing.  If you'd like his contact info to give him your view, I can get it.

At derby practices, we try to do: light skating warm ups, endurance, stretch, various drills that may or may not entail more endurance, 'cold down' endurance, and more stretching.

And this is relevant to any kind of activity in the military how?


IMO, this debate over stretching/not stretching is soon going to be  :deadhorse:

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Here at the school of big booms..... pt is as follows...

10 min warmup to include streching
40 min PT session
10 min cool down to include streching

 

[Occam]

The exercise & fitness expert at 17 Wing, who is very well qualified and certified said that while warming up is a necessity, stretching before is not.  Being familiar with his experience and credentials, he is the most authoritive voice I've heard on the subject.  From him, the key is warming up for the actual activity you are going to be doing.  If you'd like his contact info to give him your view, I can get it.

New guidance supports what you've said above - stretching is an separate workout done to maintain flexibility, not as part of a preparation for a workout.  The warmup is most important.

See Stretching before exercise 'is counter-productive'.

 

[DexOlesa]

OK I see they are talking about static stretching. Yes this is true that static stretching (too much of it) can do exactly as they say, cause your muscles to contract by overstretching and you hurt yourself. It also mentions that "movements that incorporate stretching like lunches" also known as Ballistic ( swimmer shaking and waving his arms  before diving in or a boxer getting into the ring) is the better way to go.

 

[armyvern]

This is what we currently do at RMC. Our PPT is conducted 3 times yearly and is scored out of a total of 500. A pass is 250, average is around 320, over 400 is superior and over 450 is exceptional. The scores are tracked and posted so that your chain of command can see them and it becomes one of the markers for what bar positions (leadership positions) one can hold. While it is not a sole factor, it is one of 4 and with our last Director of Cadets, it was definitely a big marker for any wing wide positions.

And yet, something is still wrong as RMC candidates are also among those failing the fitness test and being ceased trg when they get to CTC due to inability to meet minimum XPress test standards; the actual subject that caused this thread to be started.

 

[SupersonicMax]

RMC PT Test standards are much higher than the Express test.  For males, IIRC' 35 push ups, 35 sit ups, 9.5. on the shuttle run, plus long jump and agility run.  If someone from RMC fails the Express there is a BIG BIG problem.

 

[armyvern]

RMC PT Test standards are much higher than the Express test.  For males, IIRC' 35 push ups, 35 sit ups, 9.5. on the shuttle run, plus long jump and agility run.  If someone from RMC fails the Express there is a BIG BIG problem.

Perhaps then, you need to go back and read.

It is clearly stated that RMC candidates are among those failing to meet the minimum standard at CTC. So, me saying it means squat --- that IS the big big problem brought up in the original post; and not 'just' RMC candidates.

So, that leads me to "what happens to those RMC candidates who get below 250 (ie fail) on any 1 of those 3 tests per year?"

 

[DexOlesa]

I was told they go on an extra PT course in the mornings to get in shape, however I was told by one cadet that he never passed the PPT in his so far 3 years there. So apparently nothing.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Perhaps then, you need to go back and read.

It is clearly stated that RMC candidates are among those failing to meet the minimum standard at CTC.

So, that leads me to "what happens to those RMC candidates who get below 250 (ie fail) on any 1 of those 3 tests per year?"

I know you said that and that's why I said there is a BIG problem.  Those whodo not pass, IIRC, get a second kick at the cat, then if they fail, are put on remedial training.  Failing one of the 4 RMC pillars is a big deal.  It can get you kicked out. 

I seriously don't see how you can fail the Express test after 2 semesters at RMC.  You get scheduled PT Classes twice a week, you have to play intramurals or varsity sports at least twice a week, plus morning PT.  I was in the best shape of my life and I did not visit the gym on my own very often (once a week maybe?).  All the physical activity I did as part of the RMC syllabus was enough to keep me in a great shape.

 

[armyvern]

I was told they go on an extra PT course in the mornings to get in shape, however I was told by one cadet that he never passed the PPT in his so far 3 years there. So apparently nothing.

I know a couple of candidates at RMC --- two inchs shorter and they would be circles; I'm having a hard time imagining them achieving 250 three times a year ... let alone passing a solitary XPress Test.

 

[GGHG_Cadet]

I was merely commenting on the way we score our test and how it is used at the College, not saying that we are any fitter than the rest of the CF.

There are people who fail the test and in my opinion the consequences are not enough. Ocdts are given two years to pass the test before they can be kicked out of the ROTP program. If they pass a test during that two year period they must pass a certain number of tests a year (I believe 1) over their next two years at the College. People are not always kicked out if they do not meet that standard, some are allowed to graduate; however, they do so without an "RMC" degree. For those who fail, they are put on Supplementary Physical Training (SPT) and are up at 0530 four days a week to train for the PPT. Once they pass a PPT, even with just a 250 score, they are off SPT. Therein lies the problem, many do not adopt a culture of fitness, instead they battle every year to barely squeak by. That one test they do get by is enough to get them on courses like CAP, even though they shouldn't be there.

 

[DexOlesa]

Holy crap!! I mean I'm just about ready to pass the express but no where near ready for the PPT, Working as hard as I can and plan to be there by the time i get to RMC (I may not make it but I'm trying) I figure if I fail the first time at least after FYOP i'll definately be making it. How can they give you 2 years to try and pass it. Even I could do almost nothing  for two years and just take it easy building up my endurance and make it in 2 years. (This is not my goal I want to pass it first time). Well at least it appears I wont have to worry too much if i do fail it the first time around. geez

 

[daftandbarmy]

Some info on what the British require by way of comparison. I wonder how we stack up?

Here's the 'getting in the door' tests:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/jan/07/healthandwellbeing.fitness

And here's a progessive program designed to get you, the keen Guardian reader, up to 'trained soldier' standard. Notice the '4 x 12 chin ups', plus other stuff, that they recommend recruits be able to complete at the end of the 16 week course.

This 16-week fitness programme has been developed by the Army Physical Training Corps, and is based on the one that it issues to potential recruits to enable them to pass basic training. Make it to the end of level 4 (see below) and you'll have achieved the basic level of fitness required of a trained soldier ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/jan/07/healthandwellbeing.fitness1