Be in shape when you arrive on course...

[SeanNewman]

...Unfortunately, outisde the army, life is not that simple.

I understand that some people have jobs that really do force them away from being able to get to a gym or whatever, but one has to think that those are by far the minority.  Yes I understand that something like an ATC needs to be at his post every second of how shift, but...

There is no way you're going to tell me that any day job at an AirForce base can't pull off organized PT.  If you work indoors for 8-12 hours a day (office, shop, whatever) and so does your boss and everyone else around you, all it takes is for him to accept the loss of a couple hours of other work a day in order to do PT.

If he choses not to do that and he wants people at their desk every minute of the day, then he has to accept the consequences of having fat people who take more sick days and get injured easier, as well as lower productivity when they are at work.

And anyone who works in that environment and knows it's wrong should put in for an OT.

PanaEng,

RCD Hill is still a ***** to get up, especially when it's the 9km mark of the 10km Brindle Hill loop.  Although it has nothing on the front gate hill at Meaford.

 

[aesop081]

I understand that some people have jobs that really do force them away from being able to get to a gym or whatever, but one has to think that those are by far the minority.  Yes I understand that something like an ATC needs to be at his post every second of how shift, but...

There is no way you're going to tell me that any day job at an AirForce base can't pull off organized PT.  If you work indoors for 8-12 hours a day (office, shop, whatever) and so does your boss and everyone else around you, all it takes is for him to accept the loss of a couple hours of other work a day in order to do PT.

You have some very valid points there and i assure you that at my Wing, units that can do so, run organized PT sessions at least several times each week. The reality of things for other units, i have gone into details with you before.

RCD Hill is still a ***** to get up, especially when it's the 9km mark of the 10km Brindle Hill loop. 

Thanks for bringing back some painful morning memories........

 

[Yrys]

Thanks for bringing back some painful morning memories........

Share them , they'll become less painfull :nod: !

 

[SupersonicMax]

I am a man under 25 years old and if I make a 4.5 i'll be impressed I will also fail. 6 is up there a ways and don't get me started about the 9.5 for RMC

You are kidding right?

 

[Pusser]

Whenever somebody in the Navy mentions organized daily PT sessions, people scream that we can't afford the lost work time.  Arguments about increased productivity, greater alertness and lesser absenteeism fall on deaf ears.  However, I watched the Japanese sailors doing it in Sasebo and still see no reason we couldn't do it as well.  I will concede that the atmosphere is getting better and most folks will be granted time for PT if they ask for it (I always grant it to my subordinates), but this is still a tough nut to crack.  We need to make it easier and more convenient.  Encouraging people to run or cycle to work (by making it easy for them to clean up and get changed) is a good start.

 

[DexOlesa]

You are kidding right?

Not kidding, I can pass the pushups, situps, and for the RMC test the long jump etc. but I've never been good at the beep test. I'm slow. Played football in high school, fenced competitively on an international level for 5 years. Was on the training squad for the Canada Games team for my province, did beep tests all the time, think my best was a 5.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is no way you're going to tell me that any day job at an AirForce base can't pull off organized PT.  If you work indoors for 8-12 hours a day (office, shop, whatever) and so does your boss and everyone else around you, all it takes is for him to accept the loss of a couple hours of other work a day in order to do PT.

The problem is some folks look at you like you have 4 heads when you want to do PT, and you get questions like "why?  you passed your PT test last month, didn't you?".  I got that one in my last MOC, as an ATIS Tech posted to N6 but working out of 12 Wing.  I actually fought to get PT time and my Chief didn't like it too much.  When I produced the DAOD and CANFORGENs from our then-CDS, I was even less popular with my CoC.  Thankfully, I am neither in that MOC or that unit anymore.

I can't say what other Wings are like, but Shearwater is pretty good for the unit PT, although it is more 'sports' than what you might consider PT.

My home unit does Sqn PT every Friday afternoon.  Everyone who can attend is expected to attend, from all 3 messes.  We have 2 hours PT per day allotted, depending on what is going on that day, at my home unit, and if you don't go you'd better have a good excuse when the ATFC asks you why you weren't there. 

 

[SeanNewman]

EITS,

Thank you for the insight into the other side of the fence.  It's just inconceivable for me to imagine a boss looking at you disapprovingly when you tell them you want to do PT.  Both my OC and CO are unbelievably fit and as I mentioned above my culture is the complete opposite of what you're describing.

At least you seem to claim it's not the entire AF, just unit dependent. 

I am all for sports as long as it's real sports and not something where someone can slack off and waste the time (like baseball).  If you play something like ball hockey or soccer, the athletic guys are going to bust their ass but commanders must make sure the fat guys are getting out there too and not taking 30 second shifts and 10 minute breaks.

Sports are much better morale-wise than running because usually only a few people actually like running where as most of the group will enjoy sports.  However, injuries seem to go through the roof when playing sports.  Even if not overly physical, ball hockey seems to be the biggest source of CF98s in the CF that aren't field-related.

 

[mellian]

Do they warm up and stretch before playing? Just seems silly not to before doing a sport or practice of.

 

[SeanNewman]

Do they warm up and stretch before playing? Just seems silly not to before doing a sport or practice of.

Book answer is yes, ground truth answer is probably not.

They're not muscular-types of injuries though and they're typically rolled ankles which are difficult to stretch for.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Do they warm up and stretch before playing? Just seems silly not to before doing a sport or practice of.

I have NEVER stretched before playing, does that make me "silly"?

 

[Bzzliteyr]

I have heard people suggest that stretching before a run isn't a good idea as well.. run a bit then stretch then carry on.  And then when you get back let eveything relax and stretch an hour or so later?

 

[Alea]

I have heard people suggest that stretching before a run isn't a good idea as well.. run a bit then stretch then carry on.  And then when you get back let eveything relax and stretch an hour or so later?

Hi,

I agree with that.
Because I tend to do the opposite, this is what my trainer always reminds me off: Warming up is for before any exercise, stretching is for after any exercise

Alea

 

[PMedMoe]

You are correct, Bzz, stretching cold muscles doesn't do a thing for them.  Do a light jog or other calisthenics before doing a light stretch.  From what I understand, the post-exercise stretch is more beneficial.

 

[Haggis]

Thank you for the insight into the other side of the fence.  It's just inconceivable for me to imagine a boss looking at you disapprovingly when you tell them you want to do PT.

Try working at NDHQ in a predominantly civilian workplace, for a civilian supervisor who works for a civilian DG who works for a civilian ADM.  Every year I'd face the question of "Why do you go to the gym during the day?".  "How come you military guys get to work out on company time while we public servants don't?"    "How come you get free access to gyms and we don't?"  All your civvy supervisors see when you leave for PT is an hour of productivity walking out the door.

 

[Pusser]

I can't say what other Wings are like, but Shearwater is pretty good for the unit PT, although it is more 'sports' than what you might consider PT.

There is nothing wrong with using sports for PT.  In fact, you do more good by getting 30 folks  out for soccer than you do when three show up for circuit training.  However, as has been said already, they must be real sports that involve actual exercise.  Bowling doesn't count!

 

[Pusser]

Try working at NDHQ in a predominantly civilian workplace, for a civilian supervisor who works for a civilian DG who works for a civilian ADM.  Every year I'd face the question of "Why do you go to the gym during the day?".  "How come you military guys get to work out on company time while we public servants don't?"    "How come you get free access to gyms and we don't?"  All your civvy supervisors see when you leave for PT is an hour of productivity walking out the door.

The simple answer to that is, "different terms of service."  Being in shape is in my job description.  Civilian employees do not suffer adverse career action by failing to pass a PT test.  If the CF is going to impose a requirement to be fit upon me, then the CF is obligated to provide me with both the time and the equipment to maintain an acceptable level of fitness.  When Treasury Board imposes a  fitness requirement on members of the Public Service, then they can argue for time and equipment through the collective bargaining process.  Until then, deal with it (admittedly, I try ot be more diplomatic when arguing this to a new civilian supervisor).  So far I've been lucky.  I too work at NDHQ and I've never had a problem with this.  In fact, when I leave work early to play hockey in a CFSU(O) sponsored league, it's not for fun.  It's part of my CF approved fitness program.  It it also worth noting that CF members are not employees of the Department of National Defence

 

[SeanNewman]

Sometimes for us it crosses the line though away from fitness and into how good of an athlete you are at a certain sport.

Hypothetically (of course), if someone happens to be a really good hockey player, somehow the magnet with their name on it seems to move higher than everyone else's come merit board season, even if they are worse than everyone else at their actual job (which last time I checked was the Infantry, not a pro hockey player).

This has been going on for decades from what I'm told of the Germany days, and it hasn't changed.

Fit = good.  Good at a certain sport should be completely irrelevant.

 

[PMedMoe]

Pusser, nicely put.  My short reply to those questions is:  "When you have to do a yearly fitness test, then you can complain/query."

Petamocto, agreed.  I used to call it the "Athletic Scholarship".    Ironman falls right in there, too.

FWIW, as much as I hate certain types of PT (e.g. running), I much prefer it to sports.  I hate sports, far too many chances for pretty severe injuries.

 

[gcclarke]

I'm in much the same situation, but everyone in my workplace are perfectly fine with me taking off whatever time I need to stay fit. I guess it varies from person to person. But at the end of the day, the answer that everyone needs to be able to give is "because staying physically fit is a job requirement for me, in accordance with DAOD 5023-2, and Commanding Officers are responsible to try and ensure that all CF members are provided opportunities to conduct phyiscal fitness training during working hours." But of course, as I'm sure we're all aware, it's not always easy for most people to stand up to their bosses, but I find the best way to do so is definitely to be able to throw a reference in their face. I think maybe this is something that should be covered off during your in-routine to NDHQ.

As for the "how come you get free access to gyms and we don't?" question, it depends on if they're talking about getting a free pass to the YMCA, or about using the DND facilities. Because public servants are allowed to use the gym facilities located in their workplace (such as the gym in the Pearkes building), just not during their scheduled working hours. Contractors, not so much, but one would hope that they're smart enough to figure out why they don't get the same perks as actual employees.