Assault troop

[17thRecceSgt]

Holy crap, where did all you guys come from?

Yes Frank, I am still in...its looks like a life sentence at this point with no parole...

Dennis Grant?  There's a name I haven't heard in a while...

Rob...no matter where I go...Army.ca OR the Charlottetown Superstore while on TD...you are there.  Cheers!

Gramps...you're in the Air Force now...you don't remember what Recce is...LMAO

About 'ol 44...it would seem to be like, in the days like Rob is talkin' about, or what Bob Bryant told me about th RCD Sp Tp, they had real training and real tasks...never heard any Sp Tp stories from Rob (that I remember) from the Strats but I am sure the Corps prolly trained everyone sorta the same...the Reserve side seemed more..."let's do something different" or "we don't have room for these guys in the Recce tp's"...like when Ken Bryanton FRP'd from the Reg's as an Airborne Engineer...prefect guy to be 44A...BUT...he ended up being 44 complete...no troops...no kit...no weapons...no vehicles either.  I wasn't with the 17th when Rob was in the 80's (cause I am not THAT old) but even then, there was more people and....Reserve units weren't limited to "38 trng days a year per soldier" like we are now...

ahhh...its all gone to crap.  Is the Reg Frce recce actually doing "mud recce" anymore or has it all gone to "surveillance" with the Coyote and radar and all the new kit?  What ever happened to the 3 guys in the night op freezin' their jewels off and having eyes on the target?  Does that even happen on deployments?  Or is it all "tech" stuff now...me?  I will always think that you can't beat a couple cold troops with one sleeping bag camm'd up and watching the OT (aka NAI aka "whatever it is called now)

Now keep in mind, I have been at the HQ for 4 years, so the only field I get to see is one with horses or berries of some sort in it...so you folks still in D Sqn know more....but it seems that, much like the Mortar platoons and Pioneer platoons the grunts used to have that were pulled out for "whatever" reason, that 44 is likely (no pun intended) to remain in the mess with the guys that actually did it...and some photo albums kickin' around...

The times...they are a'changin...what will be the role of the Corps when the Leo's are gone?  Is Gen Hillier, being a Black-hatter himself...going to let the Corps fade away?????  Sorta seems like...44 Tp is something in the past...what is next?  No MBT replacement...no tanks at the Reg Frce Regiments...anyone see a pattern??

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Oh...just one more point...was Summerside still B Sqn in 96?  Can't remember when it became 3 Tp...some folks never did let go of that whole B Sqn thing...

Otherwise, I do NOT remember you in my troop DG...LMAO.  Man...almost a decade ago...time flies...

Now someone told me that a certain Strat was going to be a Strat again...

FYI - There are 2 things Air Force types can't do...use the rank structure and keep a secret  (sorry Neil, had to get that one in!)

:

Quote of the day - Hot part's burn.

 

[Gramps]

Rank structure?? Never heard of it, is this a new thing?

 

[DG-41]

My troop was one of the two troops stood up from the instructors and students of a pair of Basic courses. I ran the one in C'Town, Erroll Mac ran the one in S'Side, and when we came back from our troop leader's courses, (and the students came back from TQ3) both courses were rolled over into troops.

B Sqn was stood down concurrently, so Erroll got the S'Side troop. I remember being 43, and I thought Erroll was 42 (Matt Wright had 41) but my memory is playing tricks on me... maybe there was another troop (under MacRae?) and maybe Erroll was 44? (but as a recce troop)

I had McGaughey as Alpha, Arbing as Charlie, and Quinn and Murph as Bravo and Delta, and all the drivers and observers well filled from the students we taught basic to.

That was a *great* troop, and the whole concept of boostrapping a troop up out of nothing was just sensational. It made for a real cohesive unit.

I miss the hell out of the PEIR; just a great group all around.

Erroll is a Battle Captain with the Strats now, and I guess Matt is with the RCMP. I haven't heard from either of them in a decade.

DG

 

[Franko]

Holy crap, where did all you guys come from?

We've been shadowing you.....recce bah!

Yes Frank, I am still in...its looks like a life sentence at this point with no parole...

Feels like that from day to day for everyone methinks.

Is the Reg Frce recce actually doing "mud recce" anymore or has it all gone to "surveillance" with the Coyote and radar and all the new kit?  What ever happened to the 3 guys in the night op freezin' their jewels off and having eyes on the target?  Does that even happen on deployments?  Or is it all "tech" stuff now...me?  I will always think that you can't beat a couple cold troops with one sleeping bag camm'd up and watching the OT (aka NAI aka "whatever it is called now)

Yes we still do mud recce...sometimes it's the only way to get "eyes on" an NAI. The younger guys don't mind it too much, but us older guys feel it    ;D

As for on deployments....I don't know if it's been done lately, I know it was done in BiH a few times on Roto 13.

Good to see you here.....welcome to Army.ca

Regards

 

[17thRecceSgt]

So let's the the RCD for example...even with no Leo's in Pet anymore ( they were all left at CMTC in 2003 after the BTE right?), there is no plan or thoughts to bringing back Sp/Assault Tp??

Wow, I am getting a picture that I am WAY outta touch after 4 years at the HQ. 

I don't know about the Reg and Res units across the country, but PEIR is so short-manned right now with tasking in Gagetown and now some with TF1-07, I think they are fielding 2 x 4 car tp's or something...I haven't been on ex with the Sqn since Oct 2001, but am going on the Bde Ex (Scotian Traverse) this April with the 4B c/s...should be an eye-opener.

 

[Reccesoldier]

The problem in the Reg F now is not lack of pers, the ERP has seen to the fact that we have way more warm bodies than we have rides for. Nor does the problem lie with  equipment (the SEV kits and wire and gas axes and all that are still in the unit lines) Nor IMO is the problem in the training, we still have enough folks out there who can and are willing to train the troops. The problem is a lack of vision and will at a higher level.

We've all heard the story that "the orbat has changed"... "get used to it"... the problem is that these are not explanations they are-shut-up-and-follow statements.

The rationale for the elimination of the Aslt Tp has never in my mind been able to hold water. They say that now the Coyote Troops will have Echo C/S attached but the skills of the engineers only cover 1/2 of what an Aslt Tp brings to the table. Of course when you mention that the giant talking heads say "then we'll get more Atts should the mission call for it".  So... who has the crystal ball to decide prior to first contact or even leaving the FLOT that these atts will/won't be required? 

The loss of the Assault troop is a blow to the sustainability of the Brigade Recce Sqn. It's not the build/create obstacles or the conduct anti-armour ambush in isolation that is missed it is the Assault Troops ability to do one of those in the AM and the other in the PM.

I've spent the last 7 months dismounted as a "Mud Recce Troop" but I can tell you now that the tasks that we were really used for were the old assault troop ones, provision of security/filling gaps in the Screen line, Ambushes (both kinds), foot patrolling, counter recce, VP security... the list goes on. 

You may as well move the dots on my PER I'm not going to "manage change" on this one.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Hey Reccesoldier,

How long has it been since there was an Asslt Tp in the RCDs?  I was out to CMTC just after the BTE in '03 and knew that was the last Ex you did with the Leo's and heard the whole Regiment was going Recce...I just assumed that Asslt Tp would come back on the table with the re-role.  Just...made sense.  Maybe thats why it never happened...it made sense.

So it sounds like "ok we aren't calling Asslt Tp, or really do Asslt Tp-focused trng, but go do the job anyway."  SNAFU.

Maybe there is a Senior Offcr out there somewhere that was Asslt Tp Ldr at one point who will breathe some life back into it for the Reg Frce...and with some kickin and screamin', the Res can pick it back up too, maybe even get to deploy on tour if there was a few free empty slots and get some experience with the Reg Frce that wouldn't go away so quick, that they could take back after Tour to our Res Frcelike the PCF crses that I have read all the stuff on WRT skill-fade.  Wishful thinking??  Seems like "something" and something is better than nothing...most of the time.

17th 

 

[George Wallace]

After Best Time Ever 2003, we were actually going to up the Assault Trooper numbers from one Troop to two.  Then there was the plan to move Assault Troop into RHQ and use it as a Regt'l resource and double as D&S Platoon.  Unfortunately, with the disbandment of the Infantry Pioneer Pl and Mortar Pl, so too went the Assault Troop. 

 

[17thRecceSgt]

So now they think the answer is to just use the E c/s's?  IF they are there...IF they are avail...if if if...

I don't see how anyone can see the logic in that...maybe the Senior officers in the Army and the Corps could learn a few things from Boy Scouts Canada...

"Be Prepared"

:-\

 

[Journeyman]

I know it's a necropost. I've resurrected this ancient thread (because some of the posts are useful) and moved this comment from the Infantry Pioneer thread.

As far as I know, there is only one reserve unit with an Assault Troop.  The QYRANG.

It's just in the trial stages. 

I'm curious if this is an LFCA experiment, innovative training in the absence of sufficient vehicles to maintain Armd Recce skills, or whether the CO simply decided it would make for interesting training (which begs the question of having adequate budget/time to train outside of assigned battle task standards).

 

[Nfld Sapper]

And like I stated before Journeyman, do they have the necessary pers to teach said subject. Even if they had an old Assault Trooper kicking around he/she would need to have a refesher done by a qualified Engineer or Demolition Instructor.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

The there is currently no doctrinal construct for an Assault Troop in a Reconnaissance Squadron. Having said that, if a unit decides to take 30 DP1/DP2 grads, some leadership and four MLVWs there is nothing stopping them calling that group "Assault Troop."

They would lack a demolitions capability training and would need a huge amount of outside help to generate that capability. Having said that, there was more to Assault Troop than demolitions. Patrolling, OPs, ambushes, clearing defiles, augmenting the defence of Recce Tp OPs, CPs and RRB and beefing up the security of the echelon were all potential Assault Troop tasks. These would all be feasible for a hypothetical group of DP1/DP2 grads with some leadership.

 

[Tank Troll]

The there is currently no doctrinal construct for an Assault Troop in a Reconnaissance Squadron. Having said that, if a unit decides to take 30 DP1/DP2 grads, some leadership and four MLVWs there is nothing stopping them calling that group "Assault Troop."

They would lack a demolitions capability training and would need a huge amount of outside help to generate that capability. Having said that, there was more to Assault Troop than demolitions. Patrolling, OPs, ambushes, clearing defiles, augmenting the defence of Recce Tp OPs, CPs and RRB and beefing up the security of the echelon were all potential Assault Troop tasks. These would all be feasible for a hypothetical group of DP1/DP2 grads with some leadership.

There was serious talk of this at the RCAC Conference this spring.

Go to pg 3 para 9

LFDTS is looking for any and all material on this to up date the QS


http://armyonline.kingston.mil.ca/LFDTS/143000440001420/RODS_APR_10_SIGNED0.PDF

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

It was discussed last year as well.  It would be a great capability, even if the Demolitions capability is not immediately pursued.

 

[patt]

I'm supposed to be on the next Assault troop course here in pet, we shall see how they are going to use us after that.

 

[SevenSixTwo]

Article here on the new "Support trooper" trade. I don't know why they would change the name...

http://dragoons.ca/supporttroop.html

 

[Franko]

Article here on the new "Support trooper" trade. I don't know why thy would change the name...

http://dragoons.ca/supporttroop.html

Possibly because the ORBAT doesn't include said troop anymore.

It will come back, give it time.

Regards

 

[CaseySheppard]

Assault Troop. Rules.

 

[63 Delta]

Good post... What is it you're trying to say though?

"Assault troop. Rules." Are you trying to say "Assault troop rules?" or maybe "Assault troop rules:" and forgot the list of rules... Or maybe you are trying to say "Assault troop rules." but you arent convinced enough to add the exclamation mark.

Just curious.