Armourchamp's Armour officer questions

[Oh No a Canadian]

Armour officer or Armored soldier, i want to drive shoot the coyotes but i want to be a officer. Does a Armour officer ever do any of those things or does he/she just command the armored soldiers to do those things

Are you sure you're in the right topic buddy?

Perhaps you should try the search button.

 

[Franko]

Armour officer or Armored soldier, i want to drive shoot the coyotes but i want to be a officer. Does a Armour officer ever do any of those things or does he/she just command the armored soldiers to do those things

They don't drive and only give commands to the crew. If the crew is doing their job right, he'll never fire the weapons himself.

Please do a search as this has been discussed fully in other topics.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[George Wallace]

Wow, the Goons have quite a few smelly jobs for subbies. For us the have an isatiable need to have a Tn O, Accts O, FST O, SMT O, Regt Capt.

Guess all those posns were filled.    ;D

 

[vonGarvin]

They don't drive and only give commands to the crew. If the crew is doing their job right, he'll never fire the weapons himself.

To amplify this statement, as a LAV Captain (yes, infantry officer, but crew commanding a similar turret), I was on an exercise in which my vehicle fired in excess of one thousand rounds of 25mm.  (Yes, that's 1,000).  I personally pulled the trigger on exactly three (3) rounds.  I'm quite certain that officers in any of the Armoured Regiments who are in Coyotes will have similar experiences.

My advice?  Remember that you cannot spell "officer" without "office".  So, get used to desks, chairs, computers, meetings and staff work.  If I were you, I would brush up on my typing skills so that you can type in excess of 30 words per minute without looking at the keyboard.  That skill is much more important for you to be successful as an officer than shooting coyotes.  (Although you must also know how to do that!)

 

[Pusser]

To put it another way, an officer must be familiar with and technically capable of everything his/her subordinates do.  He/she just need not be proficient in them.  This means that during training, you will have to learn everything and you will be given a chance to practice, but in the day to day workings of your unit, you will not actually be doing the things your soldiers do.  In fact, if you're ever in a combat situation where the officer is firing the gun, something has gone horribly wrong.

I know how to do many things that my petty officers never let me touch! ;D

 

[Franko]

To put it another way, an officer must be familiar with and technically capable of everything his/her subordinates do.  He/she just need not be proficient in them. 

I'm not too sure on your trade but in the Corps you must be able to supervise your crew, therefore you must be absolutely proficient in their job as well as your own.

If you don't know the turret drills, how can you supervise your gunner / loader properly? I've failed Officer candidates for such deficiencies, centered on safety.

Regards

 

[vonGarvin]

If you don't know the turret drills, how can you supervise your gunner / loader properly?

Once again, to amplify this statement, of the over 997 rounds that my gunner fired, for each and every one of them, I issued fire control orders and then ensured that he was on target, applying proper gunnery techniques, etc.  Only once could he not identify the target.  So I fired a three-round burst at it.  He then saw it.  Anyway, especially as a crew commander, you are an integral part of the crew in addition to being troop leader (as an armour corps officer).  So, such "mundane" things as uploading, downloading, misfire drills, etc, are all vital skills.  Just don't expect to be the trigger man too often.

 

[George Wallace]

WHOA!



HOT CANNON!

 

[Pusser]

I'm not too sure on your trade but in the Corps you must be able to supervise your crew, therefore you must be absolutely proficient in their job as well as your own.

If you don't know the turret drills, how can you supervise your gunner / loader properly? I've failed Officer candidates for such deficiencies, centered on safety.

Regards

I think you misunderstood me.  I didn't mean that you don't have to know the drill perfectly or be able to do it well, but an officer will never be as proficient in the gunner's position as the actual gunner who's put thousands more rounds down range than the officer ever will.  Technical proficiency is only one aspect of doing something well.  You also have to be able to "feel" whether it is right.

 

[REDinstaller]

In the turret, a crew commander be it an Officer, SNCO or NCM has to have the same level of proficiency. If an officer can't be a proficient gunner in a Leopard, then he can't be a proficient crew commander either. He must understand the limitations of his platform and its ammo in order to properly employ his platform. Officers are required to take a Turret Operator Course(25MM) or the 105MM Gunnery course just like the gunner/loader he is in charge of.

 

[bdave]

1.  No you do not get to pick per se.  If you are joining and reserve unit, then you will be recce.  You will probably never get tank courses if you stay reserves.

Damnit, that sucks.
Was looking forward to tanks.
So what courses does a reserve armoured officer take after CAP?

 

[Franko]

Damnit, that sucks.
Was looking forward to tanks.
So what courses does a reserve armoured officer take after CAP?

Reserve DP1.1 ARTL. Armour Recce Troop Leading mod 1 - learning how to crew command a jeep.

Reg Force DP1.1 ARTL. Armour Recce Troop Leading mod 1 - learning how to crew command a 25mm platform (Coyote/LAVIII)

Regards

 

[bdave]

Reserve DP1.1 ARTL. Armour Recce Troop Leading mod 1 - learning how to crew command a jeep.

Reg Force DP1.1 ARTL. Armour Recce Troop Leading mod 1 - learning how to crew command a 25mm platform (Coyote/LAVIII)

Regards

I searched and found threads that gave course lists. I even searched the Army.ca Wiki.
All I found were course lists; not anything describing what the course(s) entailed.

Can someone post what all the Reserve Armour Officer courses are and what is learned on those courses?

If not, point me to where I could find such info.

Thanks.

 

[Pusser]

In the turret, a crew commander be it an Officer, SNCO or NCM has to have the same level of proficiency. If an officer can't be a proficient gunner in a Leopard, then he can't be a proficient crew commander either. He must understand the limitations of his platform and its ammo in order to properly employ his platform. Officers are required to take a Turret Operator Course(25MM) or the 105MM Gunnery course just like the gunner/loader he is in charge of.

I'm not arguing that.  Yes, he has to take the course and yes he needs to be competent and capable, but no course will ever give him the same level of proficiency as the guy who takes the course and then does it day in, day our for years.  Frankly, if the officer is as good or better at any specific job in the crew, then either he wastes his time practicing things that are not his job, or his crew is incompetent.

Having said all this, I have to admit, I am not an armoured officer, nor have I ever been in the Armoured Corps, but if what I have said is not true, then the Armoured Corps is truly unique within the CF.

 

[George Wallace]

Having said all this, I have to admit, I am not an armoured officer, nor have I ever been in the Armoured Corps, but if what I have said is not true, then the Armoured Corps is truly unique within the CF.

As Submariners are unique in the Navy.  >

 

[REDinstaller]

As Submariners are unique in the Navy.  >

This is why the Armoured Corps is the SMEs on anything on land with a turret.

 

[Franko]

I searched and found threads that gave course lists. I even searched the Army.ca Wiki.
All I found were course lists; not anything describing what the course(s) entailed.

Can someone post what all the Reserve Armour Officer courses are and what is learned on those courses?

If not, point me to where I could find such info.

Thanks.

When I get up in the morning and have a coffee in my hands....and if I'm inclined, I'll throw down everything we teach on the bloody course.

Regards

 

[bdave]

Awesome, thanks.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

I'm not arguing that.  Yes, he has to take the course and yes he needs to be competent and capable, but no course will ever give him the same level of proficiency as the guy who takes the course and then does it day in, day our for years.  Frankly, if the officer is as good or better at any specific job in the crew, then either he wastes his time practicing things that are not his job, or his crew is incompetent.

Having said all this, I have to admit, I am not an armoured officer, nor have I ever been in the Armoured Corps, but if what I have said is not true, then the Armoured Corps is truly unique within the CF.

As an Armoured Officer I must be very proficient in crew skills.  I have only driven on my driver's familiarization course during my initial training and I don't have much to offer my driver.  When it comes to gunnery, however, I need to be an expert.  That doesn't mean that I must be a better gunner than my gunner.  It means that I must be able to do the tasks of his crew station so that  that I can supervise.  Gunnery is a crew activity.  I can't just have an interest in gunnery.  I don't put down my Officer's Mess Meeting Minutes for a moment and say to my gunner "Be a good chap and take a few shots at that nasty enemy tank out there."  A crew commander is a big part of an AFV's fighting ability, and we can't have one quarter of the Sqn's tanks commanded by men who think that mastering  crew skills is not officer's work.

Cheers

 

[Nemecek]

I don't think Pusser is saying that an officer shouldn't be unaware or unskilled when it comes to the crew positions. Just that as an armoured crewman you would spend many more hours in one position than your troop leader.

From what I read, Pusser wasn't disparaging the technical skills of armour officers, just tapping into that addage that practice makes perfect.