Armed Forces Consider incentives to keep soldiers fit

[ballz]

I understand the point you're trying to make, but I think you're over generalizing just a tad. I know some really fit guys who are dumber than a bag of hammers and are quite content to do the bare minimum within their trade. Conversely, I know some minimum-fitness types who are smarter than the leaders who lead them and take pride in the job they do every day. None are in rifle companies though and I do agree that the minimum fitness level could be raised a notch.

Sorry, didn't mean to infer that all overweight people are useless or unintelligent or that all fit people are full of initiative. I'm no athlete myself, not afraid to admit it.

Physically fit pers that are not so sharp and content to do the bare minimum usually still go on field ex's, they still do PT, they still conduct maintenance tasks, etc, and if a Sect Comd tells them do something they do it, although sometimes it requires extra supervision from the SNCOs, but that's their job and they can ensure it gets done despite the pain in the a$$. And if still to no avail, the CoC can use remedial measures and generally speaking it works, or the person is it eventually pushed out.

But with physical fitness, they can play the medical system to their advantage and they often do. Between TCATS, med chits, back on TCATs, etc, they often aren't available for field ex's, they can't do the most basic tasks due to their restrictions, they can't do PT testing, etc. It's not an easy nut to crack. Putting them on IC does not usually result in them getting in shape, it results in them getting more med chits. An even tougher thing to deal with when they are a MCpl or Sgt (don't ask me how) and you have to rely on *them* to get their subordinates to complete something.

This stuff is a common problem in my battalion and I don't think we're the only battalion dealing with it, it's as frustrating as anything else I've encountered.

 

[DAA]

Sorry, didn't mean to infer that all overweight people are useless or unintelligent or that all fit people are full of initiative. I'm no athlete myself, not afraid to admit it.

This stuff is a common problem in my battalion and I don't think we're the only battalion dealing with it, it's as frustrating as anything else I've encountered.

Keep in mind, that the FORCE Testing is "universal" and applicable to all CF occupations, nothing more.

The problems that you see are more geared to your employment location/occupation and are to be expected.

Not sure just how the respective environments are going to respond but time will tell.

 

[ballz]

Keep in mind, that the FORCE Testing is "universal" and applicable to all CF occupations, nothing more.

The problems that you see are more geared to your employment location/occupation and are to be expected.

Not sure just how the respective environments are going to respond but time will tell.

Ack, like I said, an argument needs to be made for a higher level of fitness as a bona fide occupational requirement for certain trades.

For the infantry, our brigade is making the BFT as a part of the IBTS so that you still have to do it, but the BFT has been around for a while and it clearly wasn't accomplishing what I'm am advocating for. A BFT with FFO including frag vest and plates, with a 50 lbs ruck, would be a good start.

EDIT: A cardio component added to the FORCE test wouldn't be a bad idea either.

 

[dapaterson]

It's actually the Army Commander who has directed that the Load Bearing March be introduced into IBTS.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

It's actually the Army Commander who has directed that the Load Bearing March be introduced into IBTS.

And that will probably be the first thing dropped form IBTS from some Reserve Units....

 

[dapaterson]

And that will probably be the first thing dropped form IBTS from some Reserve Units....

Army commander direction for the Reserves on the "Load Bearing March" (LBM) is that it is not required, but recommended (more or less).  It's also not required for the Army HQ and other, non-deployable HQs (such as Div and CADTC).

 

[McG]

Before we go too far down the path of creating yet another thread on why higher minimum standards are required, let's look at the CAF's goal here.  How do we motivate people to go beyond the minimum level of fitness (whatever it may happen to be)?

Education probably has a role.  Are our mess halls providing enough healthy options in comparison to the fatty or sugary options?  Do the IMPs need a Maple desert guaranteed to give instant diabetes?

What more should the CAF do?

 

[quadrapiper]

Before we go too far down the path of creating yet another thread on why higher minimum standards are required, let's look at the CAF's goal here.  How do we motivate people to go beyond the minimum level of fitness (whatever it may happen to be)?

Education probably has a role.  Are our mess halls providing enough healthy options in comparison to the fatty or sugary options?  Do the IMPs need a Maple desert guaranteed to give instant diabetes?

What more should the CAF do?

Shutting down the deep fat fryer in the messes would be a start: using Nelles as an example, there's plenty of healthy and healthier options available, but you still get chicken strips, fries, and so on served.

As far as the IMPs - are those supposed to be consumed only by personnel doing high-intensity tasks, or would it make sense to reduce the calorie count in the "default" pack and develop a "high intensity" supplementary issue?

As far as motivation, I think more stick is called for: the individual that's always been motivated to ensure they're fit for task will continue to hit the gym, run, and so on regardless of carrots (though giving something at the unit level can't hurt); the slug might shift themselves if there's a real, short-term potential for being released, demoted, fined, or required to conduct onerous remedial training.

 

[McG]

"The stick" exists for those below the minimum standard, and I do not see any sort of rough encouragement coming for those who meet or exceed the standard.  Is fear the only sort of motivation we know to use?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Your own death or worse, the death of someone else because you are a fat knacker: that should be pretty good incentive:

“In the Army, fitness is not just a fad, it is life or death. An unfit, overweight soldier could hinder his comrades out on the ground and risk their lives.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/one-five-soldiers-royal-regiment-3152676

 

[eliminator]

Finally?

https://dfit-fgc.kinductdev.com/forceprofile

Word on the street is that Merit points/rewards are expected to be as follows (starting 1 Apr 2017):
a. Bronze (50th percentile): 1 merit
b. Silver (84th percentile): 2 merits & T-shirt
c. Gold (98th percentile): 2 merits & Gym Bag
d. Platinum (top 0.1 % of your age group): 2 merits & uniform Pin

 

[PuckChaser]

Oh goodie a T-shirt.

 

[MJP]

Oh goodie a T-shirt.

If actually comes with points at the merit boards then the t-shirt is worth it.

 

[TCBF]

- Each occupation has its own medical category. Give each trade its own physical category. Failure to meet specs? No trade advancement. No leadership courses. NO WSE or acting rank. No component transfer.

-Why? Because you can be medically fit, but physically unfit, and vice versa.

- This would be a pers issue, not a med issue. No waivers.

 

[Pieman]

Money talks. Decent yearly bonus pay for people maintaining consistent strong physical performance.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So can you pass all the stations but fail on waist size ? 

 

[CombatMacguyver]

d. Platinum (top 0.1 % of your age group): 2 merits & uniform Pin

Really?  For being in the top tenth of a percent you still only get 2 merits?

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

And a Uniform Pin: You forgot the Uniform Pin.  [

Personally, I think I would work hard at staying at the gold level: A gym bag is a damn sight more useful than a pin.  :nod:

 

[McG]

So can you pass all the stations but fail on waist size ? 

Yes.  That is the orange zone on the chart.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes.  That is the orange zone on the chart.

Interesting.  I know this possibility is making some of my fellow sailors panic a little bit...