Armed Forces Consider incentives to keep soldiers fit

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

Excellent! Please clone that and distribute widely.

I would but I wouldn't want to replicate some of the foolishness.

Best to reformat and build from the chassis up.

 

[armyvern]

Excellent! Please clone that and distribute widely.

His current Unit is also a Pri 2 Operational Unit that is manned full up.

Some Units outside of those SOF and Joint Units are sitting well below the full up strength or even a workable strength.  There's a Unit out here that's short 40+ pers of just one trade (Sup) at the Pte/Cpl level (a red trade).  And my current Unit that consists of 15 different trades is at 71% effective strength.  The staffing process to try to hire for the many civilian vacancies that we also have hampers at each and every turn possible.

The reality of the CAF is there is no such thing as a "we do, so you can too".  It doesn't work that way.  Much like boots - one size does not fit all.

 

[CountDC]

But circling back to my original statement - a job - well, we all know what happens when we can't meet the criteria of the UofS don't we?

They get a low risk assessment from the med side and the CO does a letter stating he will retain without restrictions.........or is that only here?

My problem with the run and lift your hands is ever time I have done it the person administrating the test has stood at one end.  When I have been at the far end they ding me for not lifting my hands even though I do every time (not sure if bad eyes, too quick or not high enough to be seen at distance).  Not the only one to have this issue either.  They have to get in a better position to see or have two spotters.

PSP staff have been known to give in to different influences over the years.  Once I attempted the expres test while sick and failed by 2 push ups.  The gentleman doing the test asked if a promotion would be affected before he completed the paperwork indicating the fail.  He was ready to give me the pass if it had as I had tried hard even though it was clear I was sick.  Rollie Pollie CWOs that could barely walk across a parade square some how magically became extremely fit, blasted the tests including BMI with no problems (know one that had lunch at the tavern with the PSP supervisor every year. hmmm).

I didn't vote merit points.  I support units setting their own merits such as a short day for mbrs that meet a given criteria stated prior to the test such as top 20%, etc.

 

[PuckChaser]

Smack the ground with your hands so it makes a loud noise when you get up, they can't say you didn't lift your hands if it makes noise.

 

[OldSolduer]

3.2km run in 19 minutes is not a fast time at all.

Hey - speak for yourself. It may not be fast to you BUT to the 18 year old who has done nothing but play video games and hang out with his friends who has decided to join up its a huge accomplishment.

Not all of us need to be CSOR or JTF2 fit, just as not all of us can compete in athletic events at a national or international level.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

Hey - speak for yourself. It may not be fast to you BUT to the 18 year old who has done nothing but play video games and hang out with his friends who has decided to join up its a huge accomplishment.

Not all of us need to be CSOR or JTF2 fit, just as not all of us can compete in athletic events at a national or international level.

The minimum standard used to be 12 minutes to do a 2.4km run. Now I'm not a math wiz by any means, but I'll leave it to you to determine what the minimum standard pace would be over 3.6 km.

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

His current Unit is also a Pri 2 Operational Unit that is manned full up.

Some Units outside of those SOF and Joint Units are sitting well below the full up strength or even a workable strength.  There's a Unit out here that's short 40+ pers of just one trade (Sup) at the Pte/Cpl level (a red trade).  And my current Unit that consists of 15 different trades is at 71% effective strength.  The staffing process to try to hire for the many civilian vacancies that we also have hampers at each and every turn possible.

The reality of the CAF is there is no such thing as a "we do, so you can too".  It doesn't work that way.  Much like boots - one size does not fit all.

My trade subocc (IST) manning is sitting around 45%, and my current workplace is not doing much better. If you make it a priority it will get done. If you convince yourself you're fat because your busy then don't expect that to change.

 

[OldSolduer]

The minimum standard used to be 12 minutes to do a 2.4km run. Now I'm not a math wiz by any means, but I'll leave it to you to determine what the minimum standard pace would be over 3.6 km.

My fastest 2.4 Km was 9:30 seconds when I was 18.

Not every one is a runner, nor is every one an Olympic level anything.

I'm 59 years old. I run about a 6 minute Km. I passed the FORCE test despite the TCat that said I shouldn't do it.

If you pass the FORCE test, the minimum standard, that's good. Improve on it.

 

[ballz]

It's also a question of the military role of the individual.  Not every individual is sitting on or by their ruck, waiting to be called to do their military job.  Many are already employed in it, day to day, and already working long hours trying to keep up.  Should we close supply another hour each day so Sup Techs can spend time in the gym?  Should pay & claims be delayed so RMS clerks can do more crossfit?  Does that mean we increase the number of support personnel so they will be able to both complete their work and maintain a higher level of fitness?

Most of the leadership just doesn't care enough to support their troops in being physically fit, and are too caught up in things that *don't matter* to do things that will help foster better physical fitness.

My OC this year wasn't happy with the PT in our coy. He wasn't wrong. We did PT every day, but there were other problems to say the least. There was no enthusiasm, it often felt like a burden (and it was), and we made it that way through our own doing.

He made some small changes, like allowing us to be in PT gear at work if it was because we were doing a 2nd work-out at lunch. We attended coy O-groups in PT kit because we just did morning PT and were planning to go again at lunch. We left work early in PT kit to go do another work-out. We set up the mats and left them out for everyone to use (as opposed to them being locked away in the QM) so that they were easy to access. I went from doing PT once a day, to doing PT twice a day, and someone I had more time on my hands than ever. I've been doing PT 8-10 times a week for the couple of months now and I enjoy it more than I ever did.

Low and behold, the OC deploys and before he made it to the airport the DCO starts asking why we are in PT kit in the middle of the day (this had been going on for 2-3 months prior without a peep). The OC comes back and the DCO starts asking him why we are going to Officer's coffee in PT kit (which is in our own rest easy and is at 9:30 in the morning... I'm in PT kit cause I just finished a 10km run, didn't see you out on the trails) and tells him its inappropriate and the same old stuff. Mind you, I've never seen this DCO do PT, except Officer's pool PT that one time where he hung onto the side while the rest of us treaded water. Guess he has more important things to worry about it.

The DSM started hopping up and down to get the mats put away (despite the fact that they were now being used about 3 times a day, and by a lot more people than just my company simply because they were accessible). Glad he lost that one as it sure is a waste of $8500 worth of mats to lock them away (like they had been for 2 years).

I am sure there are people hopping up and down about how unprofessional wearing PT after 0900 was, about to respond to me as if I've just burned a Qu'ran, but I don't care if a supply tech wears PT kit while they exchange my combats, and I don't care if my subordinates do day-to-day work in PT kit because they are between workouts. The results spoke for themselves, and the same old crowd showed up to try and stifle any progress.

 

[armyvern]

My trade subocc (IST) manning is sitting around 45%, and my current workplace is not doing much better. If you make it a priority it will get done. If you convince yourself you're fat because your busy then don't expect that to change.

That's because you Signals types now have a shit tonne in the training system who don't even know what sub occ they are going to be when they join these days.  You have the numbers --- just not against the sub occs.  Are the Signallers there still leaving at 1130 for lunch and returning 1330ish and then heading home for the evening ~ 1500ish leaving only the RQ/SQ and RM Tp vehicles sitting in the parking lot?  If not, that's a change because that's how it was my entire 5 years there.

My priority is supporting operations and a the current Brigade Ex happening here.  My troops need to sleep sometime.  This ain't K-Town and it's non-comparable.  Anyway, supper is done ... must head back to work.


LOL; am back at work and have an email from the last place that I belonged to head hunting pers ... shall send it off to the pers at JSR who replaced me because I got no one.

 

[PuckChaser]

That's because you Signals types now have a crap tonne in the training system who don't even know what sub occ they are going to be when they join these days.  You have the numbers --- just not against the sub occs.  Are the Signallers there still leaving at 1130 for lunch and returning 1330ish and then heading home for the evening ~ 1500ish leaving only the RQ/SQ and RM Tp vehicles sitting in the parking lot?  If not, that's a change because that's how it was my entire 5 years there.

Thats hilarious, considering the Op tempo of signallers everywhere. Probably the same 100 fit guys constantly deploying, everyone else copulating the proverbial pooch. Seems like Kingston has a massive amount of PYs invested in manning Div HQs that don't deploy, instead of pushing Sigs resources out to the main effort of the CA: CMBGs.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

:duel:  :Jedi:


op:

 

[armyvern]

Thats hilarious, considering the Op tempo of signallers everywhere. Probably the same 100 fit guys constantly deploying, everyone else copulating the proverbial pooch. Seems like Kingston has a massive amount of PYs invested in manning Div HQs that don't deploy, instead of pushing Sigs resources out to the main effort of the CA: CMBGs.

Nope, the deployments were spread pretty evenly over that Regiment ... and they don't man Div HQ.  We have supported Div HQ on JOINTEX however, but nary a PY belongs to them.  Nor did JSR grow a single PY due to the stand up of 1 Can Div HQ (but I'm quite positive you knew that already).

 

[PuckChaser]

Doesn't mean it didn't have too many PYs already. When you can put a giant capability into a unit and not grow it's PYs, maybe you have too many PYs.

That's besides the thread topic though.

 

[BinRat55]

The minimum standard used to be 12 minutes to do a 2.4km run. Now I'm not a math wiz by any means, but I'll leave it to you to determine what the minimum standard pace would be over 3.6 km.

Slow down - the 3.2 Km in 19 mins was in reference to the old Warrior Training - 3.2 Km in FULL BATTLE RATTLE... 19 mins was a good time.

 

[Pusser]

I am wholly opposed to PER points as an incentive for fitness and question why we need fitness testing at all.  The problem with fitness testing is that it is punitive by nature (i.e. the consequences of failing the test are published in great detail).  Providing PER points as an "incentive" for doing well can actually be seen as negative reinforcement (which is generally considered bad) because everyone will only concentrate on what they're not getting if they don't do as well on the test as perhaps they should.

The problem with fitness in the CF stems from the lack of a universal culture of fitness.  Granted, many units (mostly it seems, in the combat arms) are very good at it and unfit personnel are quickly identified and dealt with.  However, for most of us, the last time we were in a unit that treated fitness seriously was in basic training (i.e. we ran the crap out of you for 8-13 weeks and then stopped).  This doesn't make sense.  If we had a culture where fitness training was an integral part of being in the CF and included in the daily routine, we wouldn't have this problem.  However, this is not the case.  For the most part, fitness is a personal responsibility and although we've gotten better over the past decade or so (e.g. we can actually take time out of the work day to go to the gym), there are still too many people in leadership positions who do not support the program (i.e. make it difficult for subordinates to train).  If we had a system where everyone, at every rank level and without exception (barring injury, illness, etc) had a required military duty to do some form of effective PT every day, then the entire CF would be in much better shape.  However, right now, we have more serious discussions about parking spaces on bases than about the lack of places to lock up a bicycle or adequate facilities for personnel to keep their uniforms so they can run/cycle to work.

 

[armyvern]

Doesn't mean it didn't have too many PYs already. When you can put a giant capability into a unit and not grow it's PYs, maybe you have too many PYs.

That's besides the thread topic though.

Nope; that's why they are a Pri 2 - we needed that many PYs to keep up with the sheer Op tempo we had going on around the world.  Over 9000 troops over the years just to A-Stan from that Unit.  Gun Camps, JOINT EXs and Herpes Hermes associated took over post the big-PY eating tour.  They certainly earn their LDA being gone 6+ months per year on various of all the tasks.

 

[armyvern]

Slow down - the 3.2 Km in 19 mins was in reference to the old Warrior Training - 3.2 Km in FULL BATTLE RATTLE... 19 mins was a good time.

19 minutes was very slow if you were Clutch.  F'n guy. What was he - a 14:06 or something like that.  :-\

 

[BinRat55]

19 minutes was very slow if you were Clutch.  F'n guy. What was he - a 14:06 or something like that.  :-\

Holy CRAP I know - he blew by me at the 1K mark - thought I was in a mini tornado (a Clutch-nado?) Lol! Yea - put on helmet. Go.

 

[Lumber]

If we had a system where everyone, at every rank level and without exception (barring injury, illness, etc) had a required military duty to do some form of effective PT every day, then the entire CF would be in much better shape. 

First , I think a few the heads of a few combat arms types on here exploded. You mean to imply that an hour of PT everyday isn't already mandatory???

Second, let's talk about results. I mentioned in my last post about wanting a fat-slob over a super-fit person sitting in the SWC chair (for those of you confused, that's Sensors and Weapons Controller). Now, fat-slob was hyperbole, as I still expect that member to be able to complete the FORCE test. If he can complete the FORCE test, than I expect him to be able to drag my unconscious body out of the Ops room when the super-fit but less competent guy misses the 2nd trail in a stream-raid and we just took a C-803 amidship. I just think, in this scenario specifically, that technical competency carries more weight than physical competency. And unlike many of you, I think the FORCE test does a good enough job of determining whether my ship mates will be able to carry unconscious bodies through the ship.

As for PT every day? Let me put it this way. I work out 3 times a week, sometimes 2. None of these PT sessions are at work, although we did start playing ball hockey again, once a week. According to the DFit website, I reached the Silver incentive level. So why do I need to do PT every day? How about PT 3 times a week and an hour of cooking and cooking preparation twice a week so that I can show my subordinates how to eat healthy?