AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Kirkhill]

It doesn't look like it can accommodate many troops, so its value as an amphib seems limited.  How about plunking ISOs down for temporary troop berths?

2000 lane-meters of RoRo deck = 4000 m2 of deck

Question is how many troops do you want to keep on station for how long?  Are they going to stay aboard or just pass through?

 

[Kirkhill]

Related:  How many men can you stow in 4000 m2 of deck if you pack them in like this?

Or this?

 

[Haletown]

Related:  How many men can you stow in 4000 m2 of deck if you pack them in like this?

Or this?

Well the First Class berths look marvellous but I bet the Baggage Class is more like an Air Canada flight.

 

[Kirkhill]

And in looking further at this I stumbled across this article and video about Afloat Forward Staging Base (Interim) Ponce  - Previously LPD-15 Ponce.

Amongst other things she is apparently the first ship to mount a Laser Weapons System.

She has also downsized her crew and transitioned from Sailors to Mariners.

 

[Infanteer]

The bunks on a US LPD aren't much bigger.

 

[Underway]

2000 lane-meters of RoRo deck = 4000 m2 of deck

Question is how many troops do you want to keep on station for how long?  Are they going to stay aboard or just pass through?

You'll want to change some of that to m3 as you stack them on top of each other.  ;D  Frankly I haven't read anything that says how many troops she's supposed to carry but the numbers for crew (160 + 140) are listed regarding core crew and probably air det.  However I have looked around and found a reference that states she was designed to carry 300 troops.  So that's a pretty good complement of troops and makes sense looking at the dimensions etc... Also considering how and what you want to drop off that works IMHO.  The Chinooks drop off two platoons light, outer cordon the area, and then the two LCU's drop off 4 LAV's at and away you go...

 

[Kirkhill]

The navy is being forced to sell its largest ship, the Karel Doorman, which is still under construction.
The vessel will first be taken into service to increase its market value. ...

Interesting comment from the editor of defense-aerospace

 

[Electric Ian]

I highly doubt we'll see any new JSS, due to budget constraints and political interference in the processes. If the helicopters are any indication of what the future is for these ships, your grandchildren will be on an indexed pension before you see them.  I know they want to revitalize the ship building industry here in Canada, but really, at what cost? We all know the price balloons as does the delivery times when Canadian Industry is the sole provider without competition. Hyundai heavy industries could pump out a fully spec'd double hulled tanker in less than a year, and at probably at half the cost.  The Preserver is WELL past its' expiry date, single hulled steamships were obsolete 20 years ago, and its only the cost of new ones that kept them from being paid off. Can't see it being any different in the future. 

 

[CougarKing]

An update that underlines the need for an AOR replacement:

CBC

Arctic icebreaker delayed as Tories prioritize supply ships

Joint support ships won't be ready until old ones retired

Quote

.... "Let's be clear: these critical shipbuilding projects are facing delays because of the Conservative decision to cancel the Joint Support Ship procurement process in 2008," NDP defence critic Jack Harris said in a statement.

"That restart means that the Canadian navy will now face a two-year gap in resupply capacity during which time Canada will have to rely on allies for essential resupply capabilities, . The Canadian navy's capacity to conduct independent marine operations during this period will be greatly reduced." ....

Wait a minute, the NDP as "the voice of reason" on defence issues?  :

 

[Navy_Pete]

Is that two year gap any different then what you get when one ship is in refit?  It might be longer then that anyway, if the PRE or PRO decide they've had enough and retire themselves early.  Hopefully no one gets hurt in the process.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Let's not forget that we take our fair share of turns being "duty tanker" (or whatever it's called) for allied navies. (I believe I read that after the recent accident Protecteur deployed to US waters for just such a task.)  Mutual support is provided to allies and can be expected from them in return.

 

[Kirkhill]

The impact the Canada-EU trade agreement might have on the RCN

Shipbuilding

Funny picture they chose to accompany their article.

 

[mad dog 2020]

This is a deal, right off the assembly line. We wanted three but money is tight. So buy the new one on sale while we wait?
Like anyone when the repair bills get too much to keep that junker on the road, time for a new car.
Please don't even compare this to the British Sub deal. We need this ship as a fill in.
Just consider the capabilities should another quasi disaster happen whether it is Haiti or a washed out road in Nfld.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Sun News is reporting that: "A senior government source told QMI Agency the ships will be named HMCS Queenston and HMCS Chateauguay."

I guess all those cheap plastic pins weren't enough.

 

[ModlrMike]

Sun News is reporting that: "A senior government source told QMI Agency the ships will be named HMCS Queenston and HMCS Chateauguay."

I guess all those cheap plastic pins weren't enough.

From the comments:

"They were going to name one the HMCS Layton, but after realizing that the ship would be doomed to making only left turns, and would be attracted to ports of call that catered to ``massage`` parlor type of entertainment they wisely reconsidered. "
:rofl:

 

[mad dog 2020]

Now if we had a couple of ships like the Karel Doorman. We could send one to the  Philippines, immediately!
We did it for Katrina. There are plenty of Canadians especially from Winnipeg (send it and the PR in the namesake city would pay dividends), that have immediate family there.
We did it for Haiti, because the GG was from there and it was already our second largest target for annual aid money.
I think sending help and supplies would be a sight more useful than dumping cash into relief funds or agencies. We dumped millions upon millions into Haiti and the people got nylon tents from Canadian Tire.
I suggest you say our AOR is sailing in one week and the tractor trailers packed and loaded from Winnipeg would be there in 2 days, hell get the rivalry of the Ice Road Truckers going?
Maybe with the regular schedule of disasters we need to re-think the availability of the new Berlin class AOR's and toss in that Dutch Karel Doorman as a immediate spare.

 

[ModlrMike]

A little bit more on the subject:

German supply ship gives navy peek at new design
CBC

The German navy has pulled into Halifax with its latest warship to give Canadian sailors a sneak peek at what they can expect within a few years.

 

[NavyShooter]

Drove past the 'yard this evening with the wife and we noted the rather well lit-up ship.

Nice to see our German friends in town! 

NS

 

[AirDet]

That reminds me of the American Oilers. She sure has nice lines though.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Did a tour this morning-It is so new, you can still smell the fresh paint (rather than that boiled dirty laundry smell all Navy ships seem to have). Built to civilian standards, there are some interesting layout and procedural differences (MCR is right behind the Bridge 5 decks up).  Upper decks have a wide open space between the Bridge and the fuelling stations that can hold up to 28 (14 stacked 2 high) containers. I also saw a spot forward of the fuelling station where our designers will probably try to stuff a kingpost in. Hanger is huge and the flight deck is the size of the dkyd gym.
The tour was unfortunately restricted to open common spaces but it was definitely interesting. Crew of approx. 150 but bunk space for up to 250, two huge 28 ton cranes, 3 high speed rescue craft and 4 x 27 mm rapid fire-high velocity guns (but I see those not being fitted on an RCN version). 20000 tonnes and max speed in excess of 21 knots from 2 X 10000 hp diesels (CRP propellers) with 4 X 1200 kW DGs for PG&D. Surprisingly, the main engines are not in acoustic enclosures (which I am sure makes maintenance MUCH easier).
I guess BONN was just commissioned in Sep last year but the class has been around for over 10 years (2 previous of the class)-It would be interesting to get on board one of the old 'used' ones to see what was learned and changed on this one.

Pat