AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Good looking ship. How many years late?

 

[PrairieFella]

Impressive ship. Navy folk, what's your impression of the Protecteur-class. I'm certainly no Navy guy myself but isn't two like at least two too few for a two fleet Navy? So many twos...

 

[dapaterson]

That's the Queenston Class

 

[FSTO]

Impressive ship. Navy folk, what's your impression of the Protecteur-class. I'm certainly no Navy guy myself but isn't two like at least two too few for a two fleet Navy? So many twos...

Yes

 

[MilEME09]

Good looking ship. How many years late?

i think we will be at 10 soon

 

[Halifax Tar]

Impressive ship. Navy folk, what's your impression of the Protecteur-class. I'm certainly no Navy guy myself but isn't two like at least two too few for a two fleet Navy? So many twos...

Yes

Yes x 2.

The argument could be made that we may offer better services to our allies with bigger tanker fleet working to keep our Allies fueled and stored at sea.

But I am biased towards big, fat things like Tankers.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I would like to see four, and its not even based on the "better servicing of our allies" argument. Two per coast means we always have one available for our own needs on each coast. Period. When two are available, then so much the better for training support.

Oh! And like HT, I like big things - Tanker Wankers forever.

 

[Baz]

Agree 4. And as Halifax Tar said, our Allies would appreciate it. For instance, the UK is struggling with keeping enough support ships for the carriers, like the (maybe temporary) loss of Fort Victoria.

I'd like to see two of them be Karel Doormans... but that ship has probably sailed. Best to keep with the same design at this point. If we did get four maybe add two Karel Doormans later on if the gevernment finally gets serious about the north.

 

[Rainbow1910]

Impressive ship. Navy folk, what's your impression of the Protecteur-class. I'm certainly no Navy guy myself but isn't two like at least two too few for a two fleet Navy? So many twos...

Generally fairly standard as far as support vessels go, it's a bit on the smaller side but unlike some nations, we're running an all in one vessel instead of a split tanker and stores fleet. They are currently designed to carry just shy of 8,000t of marine diesel and just over 1,300t of aviation fuel alongside up to 60 20ft containers aboard as well. The flight deck and hangers can take up to Chinook sized aircraft plus maintenance facilities for a task force while there will also be two powered sea-to-shore connectors aboard that can be constructed from a pair of containers, with the ability to ferry a maximum of 81t. There is a 45 bed modular hospital (X-ray machine, blood bank, laboratory facilities, surgical bay, full dental facilities, and ICU beds) to meet NATO standards and JSS can carry the missiles/torpedoes for the River/Halifax class in dedicated magazines in order to resupply them abroad.

Unlike Asterix, JSS is effectively built and equipped as close to a "proper warship" as you typically see for auxiliary vessels. JSS is built far more heavily with more redundant features, like two diesel engines with two propeller shafts. The design is also CBRN capable and outfitted with adequate self defence capability (3D search radar, Nixie torpedo decoys, RWS .50 cal machine guns, Phalanx). The most impressive capability for the design is its command and control facilities present, due to its planned role to act as the centerpiece flagship to an RCN surface fleet deployment. The Sea Giraffe AMD radar is of the type found aboard the Swedish Visby and American Independence classes, while there is a full CMS-330 suite and Link 16/22 aboard and ample space in order to fulfill flagship and headquarters roles for multi-domain (air, land sea) operations in the vicinity.

Accommodations are much improved as well, single cabins for senior officers, double cabins for officers/Chiefs, four man cabins for Petty Officers and six man cabins for everybody else. Individual showers and heads alongside a pair of gyms, a computer lab, library, conference/training rooms and a proper barber shop. Wi-Fi network as well standard as on the AOPS.

All in all from what I've heard, the vessels will be fairly potent and well suited to our requirements. I'd ideally like to see us follow the German model and build 1-2 additional JSS to an improved model once Seaspan's Coast Guard order book is a bit emptier. Only a pair of ships is definitely not enough depth in the fleet unless we plan on purchasing another pair or so of resupply vessels elsewhere to supplement them.

 

[Navy_Pete]

i think we will be at 10 soon

really almost 30, if you included the two first failed projects and the aborted procurement. The replacement project started in the late 80s, and met a guy that retired after having spent his entire career on it. He started as a engineer in training, and think finished as an eng 5.

To be fair to the current JSS and Seaspan, the NSS project timelines were ridiculous and unacheivable, and the non-combat build program was harder than the combat one. They had 3-4 concurrent design projects on the go while also building up a shipyard, workforce, SOPs, experience etc, and we're a pain in the ass customer.

 

[FSTO]

really almost 30, if you included the two first failed projects and the aborted procurement. The replacement project started in the late 80s, and met a guy that retired after having spent his entire career on it. He started as a engineer in training, and think finished as an eng 5.

To be fair to the current JSS and Seaspan, the NSS project timelines were ridiculous and unacheivable, and the non-combat build program was harder than the combat one. They had 3-4 concurrent design projects on the go while also building up a shipyard, workforce, SOPs, experience etc, and we're a pain in the ass customer.

You'd think that the smart people at Procurement Canada (or whatever the hell its being called lately) would know that a nation cannot shut down a shipbuilding industry and then start it up again 20 years later without it costing multi billions.

Pro and Pre were built in the early 70's, and real nation would of had replacements in the water by 2000. Sadly our betters are kind of stupid.

 

[Navy_Pete]

You'd think that the smart people at Procurement Canada (or whatever the hell its being called lately) would know that a nation cannot shut down a shipbuilding industry and then start it up again 20 years later without it costing multi billions.

Pro and Pre were built in the early 70's, and real nation would of had replacements in the water by 2000. Sadly our betters are kind of stupid.

AOR replacement 1 never got funded, and that was the one in the 80s to deliver in the 90s, so more of a GoC thing.

'Big honking ship' v2 failed because the RFP was insane, and had mandatories and a ceiling price to small for the mandatories.

JSS probably would have stalled for a while too, but got political support under the NSS program because of the jobs and other benefits. The big push on that came from Mr. Tom Ring at PWGSC (now PSPC) and Mr. Ian Mack (which started as RAdm Mack) with support from then Cmdre Pat Finn (who then went to COS Mat, then ADM(Mat) as a civilian), so it all depends on who you talk to in the departments. From there they got buy in from ISED, TBS etc.

There is still some weird holdouts, like this one Ex in FIN Canada that hates the NSS and thinks the money should be invested in grants to car plants or something, so wastes a lot of time on the strategic project when it's been a Cabinet directive to build ships in Canada since the 1960s (with some exceptions, like the build yards don't exist, which applied for some fast ferries and would also apply to the subs).

There is a good article from Mr. Ring at the link below, but he was definitely a guy that got the importance of domestic shipyards, as well as how to translate that into something palatable for politician and government mandarins to get it in place. He retired after the Umbrella agreements were in place, but I think if it had been done 5 years earlier Canada would have benefited a lot from having him and a few other key people still in place to guide the initial implementation and actually get things like Target state and productivity monitoring in place.

Policy Updates - Canadian Global Affairs Institute

 

[Underway]

I love the blue anti foul paint. Much more classy than th

Good looking ship. How many years late?

~2.5-3 years late. COVID and the supply chain disruptions caused by it are directly responsible for about 2 years of that. Not sure how much was caused by the ship in front of JSS being late though. Once the schedule backs up its hard to recover.

Of course there are mistakes and slippage from both Seaspan and the project office as well. Some of that was unavoidable, and some was due to not building ships in a really long time.

Of course it all depends where you put the "start". I put it at when the contract was signed for the ship. All that other stuff you can't blame the shipyard, you can only blame the government.

 

[OldSolduer]

But I am biased towards big, fat things like Tankers.

Here you go....that should keep you supplied for....a long while....

 

[PrairieFella]

But I am biased towards big, fat things like Tankers.

As a crewman I resent this. Leave me and my gravy out of your kinks.

 

[OldSolduer]

As a crewman I resent this. Leave me and my gravy out of your kinks.

A Strathcona are we?

 

[PrairieFella]

A Strathcona are we?

No, Strathcona adjacent for years though, can't miss a good joke opportunity though

 

[DBNSG]

Here you go....that should keep you supplied for....a long while....

I can't unsee that now . Friggin Infantry.