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AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

I'd rather sundowners than sit around the AAMR.
I'm a sun downers guy myself. But I'm not going to yuk someone else's yum. To each their own.

I agree that attitudes towards drinking have changed. It's really obvious that the younger generation just doesn't drink like we used to. High school alcohol consumption is waaay down.

But weed is way up. Drugs are a fad thing at the end of the day.
 
It's not my navy anymore, so I'll step away from the current issues...but. Following that AMR party (technically AAMR) I was on MON for another 3 years and ended up getting my P2s there.

When I returned to MON in 2013, and was in the C&PO's mess, we ended up having a chat one evening in the mess - I didn't drink at sea at that point...and someone asked why. I pointed out the engine room fire on the OTT a few years prior, and a discussion that the Fleet Chief had with us on my NELP course. Then I suggested looking at the level of knowledge and experience in the MS&B mess. The discussion centered on who would be providing leadership when (not if) there was another incident on a frigate....the summary was that there wasn't a single MS with more than 7 years in the Navy onboard...and that the likelihood was that the amount of direction and leadership required from P2/P1/C2s in a real emergency would be - high. Being impaired in any way was, in my mind, a bad thing. A few others agreed, and oddly, the sea beers in the C&PO's almost disappeared.
 
It's not my navy anymore, so I'll step away from the current issues...but. Following that AMR party (technically AAMR) I was on MON for another 3 years and ended up getting my P2s there.

When I returned to MON in 2013, and was in the C&PO's mess, we ended up having a chat one evening in the mess - I didn't drink at sea at that point...and someone asked why. I pointed out the engine room fire on the OTT a few years prior, and a discussion that the Fleet Chief had with us on my NELP course. Then I suggested looking at the level of knowledge and experience in the MS&B mess. The discussion centered on who would be providing leadership when (not if) there was another incident on a frigate....the summary was that there wasn't a single MS with more than 7 years in the Navy onboard...and that the likelihood was that the amount of direction and leadership required from P2/P1/C2s in a real emergency would be - high. Being impaired in any way was, in my mind, a bad thing. A few others agreed, and oddly, the sea beers in the C&PO's almost disappeared.

2 Cans of beer a day... would be fair.

The problem is not everyone is responsible enough to be reasonable. So alas, its all for naught.
 
It's not my navy anymore, so I'll step away from the current issues...but. Following that AMR party (technically AAMR) I was on MON for another 3 years and ended up getting my P2s there.

When I returned to MON in 2013, and was in the C&PO's mess, we ended up having a chat one evening in the mess - I didn't drink at sea at that point...and someone asked why. I pointed out the engine room fire on the OTT a few years prior, and a discussion that the Fleet Chief had with us on my NELP course. Then I suggested looking at the level of knowledge and experience in the MS&B mess. The discussion centered on who would be providing leadership when (not if) there was another incident on a frigate....the summary was that there wasn't a single MS with more than 7 years in the Navy onboard...and that the likelihood was that the amount of direction and leadership required from P2/P1/C2s in a real emergency would be - high. Being impaired in any way was, in my mind, a bad thing. A few others agreed, and oddly, the sea beers in the C&PO's almost disappeared.
Good leadership. I learn so much from you folks on here.
 
When I went inland in 95 the CAF was still getting paid peanuts. So foreign ports were PAC in the ship, run ashore, and come back to the ship. We had no money for much else, but we pooled our resources to have a lot of fun. When I came back to the coast post pay raise things had changed with folks getting hotel rooms and there didn’t seem to be the same camaraderie. I’m not begrudging the pay raise at all, but it just seemed something was lost.
 
Have you been to an AAMR party prior to the changes around alcohol? Also smoking was allowed. We used to drop down to the engine spaces for smokes all the time. It's where I used run off to for puff during a RAS.

Nothing matched them. No other dept/sect on the ship threw as good a party, hands down.
The 280 equivalent was the heavy workshop (and in one really extended 18 hour bilge pumping in Florida the boat deck).

I think one of the big differences was it was usually long after most other departments had secured, we were just getting wrapped up, and it was a departmental thing for another work day that ran to the point where going ashore no longer made sense. The beer was supplied by the senior folks in the department (which was a lot when you had 70-80 people) and it was a thank you for the department for their hard work.

Not that other departments didn't do work, but honestly outside some storsies there was no one else regularly around after hours and weekends still working to make sure the ship sailed doing repairs, fuelings, trials etc etc, where it really was a regular things for almost all MSED personnel. Things like the MSED parties onboard, sexy coffee in the MCR, very rare departmental breakfasts and some similar things made a lot of sense when you spent weeks at a time working with the same group of peopel 16 hours a day, and helped get through those 20 hour fuelings and other things that were probably pretty unecessary still joking around with each other.
 
Nothing like sitting on top of the bridge, arms deep in the STIR helping the FC Techs sort out a synchro issue in advance of the missile shoot while watching the Operators heading to the EM's beach at 1300 hrs...."we'll start early and finish early guys!" that was the lie we were told....and the best part was the NESOPs waving at us as they walked by.

At least the stokers were down in their spaces and didn't have it tossed in their faces that everyone else was gone.
 
I just got back from sea in HMCS Harry DeWolf. So they they run things is somewhat different from other classes of ships. First of all members eat in a cafeteria including the Captain, so when you sit down it could be the Coxn sitting down with you or even the CO. Scullery is handled by everyone. Everyone cleans as there is a lot of real estate on that ship. Lots of privacy and areas where the crew can get away from it. They have briefing rooms, contractor office turned into annexes for the messes and gaming. They have 2 Starlink antennas and each deck has access to WiFi pretty much everywhere. Comfortable cabins, nice messes etc. When they get alongside in foreign port they don't have to worry about embarking FW or fuel often because they carry so much. They have a large capacity to hold Black, Greywater, Bilges etc and most garbage is burnt so very little to get rid of when getting alongside. Talking to the Coxn most sailors stay onboard in the evenings as its that nice on the ship and very few go to hotels. Its a good go on that class of ship compared to other classes.

Back in the day drinking was a pastime and pretty much all we did on steamers and yes it lent us to be very tight crews. Overtime attitudes towards alcohol changed and its no seen as a benefit. Like mentioned before the risk is very high if something happens at sea and even having one beer could make a difference. The sailors demand to be connected and are in the messes gaming, surfing the web or talking to family on Sat night rather than getting blitzed. Things are fundamentally changed and for the good in most cases. People still drink but its not the central focus of social activities anymore. I wager this will diminish over time even further.
 
We had a combined mess on a smaller Cutter, generally one table reserved for the officers during meals. That worked fine as well.
 
The 280 equivalent was the heavy workshop (and in one really extended 18 hour bilge pumping in Florida the boat deck).

I think one of the big differences was it was usually long after most other departments had secured, we were just getting wrapped up, and it was a departmental thing for another work day that ran to the point where going ashore no longer made sense. The beer was supplied by the senior folks in the department (which was a lot when you had 70-80 people) and it was a thank you for the department for their hard work.

Not that other departments didn't do work, but honestly outside some storsies there was no one else regularly around after hours and weekends still working to make sure the ship sailed doing repairs, fuelings, trials etc etc, where it really was a regular things for almost all MSED personnel. Things like the MSED parties onboard, sexy coffee in the MCR, very rare departmental breakfasts and some similar things made a lot of sense when you spent weeks at a time working with the same group of peopel 16 hours a day, and helped get through those 20 hour fuelings and other things that were probably pretty unecessary still joking around with each other.

I always had a standing invite to the AAMR. Perhaps I am biased.

We are about to come alongside our last POC. And there are dept parties happening tonight after HFI. But it will be just a couple wets and then we go ashore.
 
I just got back from sea in HMCS Harry DeWolf. So they they run things is somewhat different from other classes of ships. First of all members eat in a cafeteria including the Captain, so when you sit down it could be the Coxn sitting down with you or even the CO. Scullery is handled by everyone. Everyone cleans as there is a lot of real estate on that ship. Lots of privacy and areas where the crew can get away from it. They have briefing rooms, contractor office turned into annexes for the messes and gaming. They have 2 Starlink antennas and each deck has access to WiFi pretty much everywhere. Comfortable cabins, nice messes etc. When they get alongside in foreign port they don't have to worry about embarking FW or fuel often because they carry so much. They have a large capacity to hold Black, Greywater, Bilges etc and most garbage is burnt so very little to get rid of when getting alongside. Talking to the Coxn most sailors stay onboard in the evenings as its that nice on the ship and very few go to hotels. Its a good go on that class of ship compared to other classes.

Back in the day drinking was a pastime and pretty much all we did on steamers and yes it lent us to be very tight crews. Overtime attitudes towards alcohol changed and its no seen as a benefit. Like mentioned before the risk is very high if something happens at sea and even having one beer could make a difference. The sailors demand to be connected and are in the messes gaming, surfing the web or talking to family on Sat night rather than getting blitzed. Things are fundamentally changed and for the good in most cases. People still drink but its not the central focus of social activities anymore. I wager this will diminish over time even further.
Its interesting how space design changes the social structure on the ship. I've heard lots about the 50per mess on the 280's and how that made a really tight crew, about the large spaces on the AOR's allowed for different social events (big poker tournaments for example). And of course there is the smaller spaces of the MCDV's and submarines that change the dynamics even more.
 
I just got back from sea in HMCS Harry DeWolf. So they they run things is somewhat different from other classes of ships. First of all members eat in a cafeteria including the Captain, so when you sit down it could be the Coxn sitting down with you or even the CO. Scullery is handled by everyone. Everyone cleans as there is a lot of real estate on that ship. Lots of privacy and areas where the crew can get away from it. They have briefing rooms, contractor office turned into annexes for the messes and gaming. They have 2 Starlink antennas and each deck has access to WiFi pretty much everywhere. Comfortable cabins, nice messes etc. When they get alongside in foreign port they don't have to worry about embarking FW or fuel often because they carry so much. They have a large capacity to hold Black, Greywater, Bilges etc and most garbage is burnt so very little to get rid of when getting alongside. Talking to the Coxn most sailors stay onboard in the evenings as its that nice on the ship and very few go to hotels. Its a good go on that class of ship compared to other classes.

Back in the day drinking was a pastime and pretty much all we did on steamers and yes it lent us to be very tight crews. Overtime attitudes towards alcohol changed and its no seen as a benefit. Like mentioned before the risk is very high if something happens at sea and even having one beer could make a difference. The sailors demand to be connected and are in the messes gaming, surfing the web or talking to family on Sat night rather than getting blitzed. Things are fundamentally changed and for the good in most cases. People still drink but its not the central focus of social activities anymore. I wager this will diminish over time even further.
Speaking of AOPS, the last one, Lt Robert Hampton Grey launched today.
 
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