AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Halifax Tar]

The US Oiler fleet is their most heavily used fleet they have. There are lots of reports on the use and abuse of that fleet. They need to build new ships which they are currently doing. They are not building battle hardened fleet Oilers, They are building floating fuel platforms which meet current and future Navel regulations for tanker ships.

I did not start the term "orphan" Stoker mentioned it.

I love the Kasier and Supply class ships...

Call me crazy but there is something beautiful about the Supply class.

Three brand new of each please.

 

[KevinB]

How is the US doing with their fleet of Oilers hardened for battle crewed by civies?

I would say that the Navy down here has a slew more vessels than Canada and doesn’t have the same issues with holes in the fleet.
That said, I’d prefer the oilers etc being setup more for defensive purposes.

 

[YZT580]

I would say that the Navy down here has a slew more vessels than Canada and doesn’t have the same issues with holes in the fleet.
That said, I’d prefer the oilers etc being setup more for defensive purposes.

3 JSS plus 2 Mistral class both based on the west coast but until the 3rd JSS is built maintain two civil Asterix class. Having the Asterix available bought us a lot of brownie points off Port Sudan.

 

[KevinB]

Having the Asterix available bought us a lot of brownie points off Port Sudan.

Would have really sucked if it had eaten a missile though.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Would have really sucked if it had eaten a missile though.

Without a doubt. But she wasn't alone.

 

[Stoker]

Perhaps we should buy it, god knows Federal Fleet are taking the government to the cleaners on the lease. As a bonus if the government owned it we could take it up past 60, currently insurance restricts it. Although its pretty attractive to have dedicated ammunition magazines, 2 shafts, CBRN capability etc for the JSS.

 

[childs56]

Would have really sucked if it had eaten a missile though.

wouldn't any ship especially a tanker ship suck if it ate a missile. Canada barely has defensive equipment on our Frigates.

 

[Spencer100]

Victoria and Vancouver shipyards are both operated by Seaspan. David is a refit yard. All of our ships, CCG, RCN frigates and subs are maintained there. I don’t think Seaspan’s parent company is interested in screwing around with Canadian politics. The government has to follow the NSS or they cold be sued. Notice how quickly the Polar icebreaker reappeared on Seaspan’s books very quickly after Trudeau tried to change the rules of the NSS without asking Seaspan.

Seaspn is also needed to operate the port of Vancouver. If the port stops, it will shutdown the west coast of North America, pissing Americans off and probably destroying the Port. Seaspan is in a position of power and won’t bend to appeasing people who lost the contract in the first place

They will buy a JSS.

Davie was given left overs from after the NSS deal was signed

Davie is now a NSS shipyard. They an announced it a couple of months back. They have the second polar icebreaker penciled in. Plus a bunch of others.

wouldn't any ship especially a tanker ship suck if it ate a missile. Canada barely has defensive equipment on our Frigates.

On the frigates what more do you want for their size and roll? As Frigates their defensive load out is as good as or better than most. ESSM, 56mm, CIWS then ECM, Chaff and other systems. Then torps, Harpoons and helo complete the offensive weapons.

The problem is the RCN has no fleet AAW defensive. IE SM class missiles. We lost that with the 280s retirement. It's not an inherent problem of the Halifax class in itself.

 

[MTShaw]

Davie is now a NSS shipyard. They an announced it a couple of months back. They have the second polar icebreakerpenciled in. LPlus a bunch of others.

Yes but the government did not let Davie eat Seaspan’s dinner. The coast gaurd needs more ships and that is great, but geopolitically, Seaspan matters. Davie does not. A US company has little appetite for Quebec politics.

 

[Underway]

Canada barely has defensive equipment on our Frigates.

Um yah... not correct.

 

[Lumber]

wouldn't any ship especially a tanker ship suck if it ate a missile. Canada barely has defensive equipment on our Frigates.

I know I'm the third person to say this, but Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Sure, the hulls have holes in them, but the weapons fit is one of the best sets of weapons, sensors, and combat management systems in the world.

 

[childs56]

I know I'm the third person to say this, but Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Sure, the hulls have holes in them, but the weapons fit is one of the best sets of weapons, sensors, and combat management systems in the world.

How well does the equipment work?
Does every Frigate have working equipment?
Do they have a full compliment of ammunition and ordnance?

 

[Furniture]

How well does the equipment work?
Does every Frigate have working equipment?
Do they have a full compliment of ammunition and ordnance?

OPSEC...

 

[childs56]

OPSEC...

We already know the answers, the Gov published the missile purchase I think last year and they advertise every time one of our ships shoots a missile. They also announce the removal of such and such equipment from one ship to the other during refit to ensure xyz ship has functioning equipment prior to deployment It is either a large ploy to confuse us all or things are in sad state. Either way equipment does not work unless it is turned on and operational.

 

[Underway]

We already know the answers, the Gov published the missile purchase I think last year and they advertise every time one of our ships shoots a missile. They also announce the removal of such and such equipment from one ship to the other during refit to ensure xyz ship has functioning equipment prior to deployment It is either a large ploy to confuse us all or things are in sad state. Either way equipment does not work unless it is turned on and operational.

That's not the way it works. You load and unload missiles depending on any number of factors from the ships readyness, the mission, the ships crew's training and the state of the ammo (might need overhaul, inspection or be expiring as some examples). As for Torps, 57mm and small arms you'll never know what the ship is carrying because of internal magazines.

And of course you don't know the stock in the Ammo Depot, its rotation rate, availability rate and repair rate.

It only takes a single day (maybe two) to fully load a frigate up. No need to always sail with all the ammo if you don't need to.

How well does the equipment work?

As well as it needs to to perform the mission. You can research this stuff yourself on Wikipedia and get a general idea of the capabilities. Suffice to say, for equivalent platforms with other navies around the world the Halifax Class is doing just fine from the combat side.

Does every Frigate have working equipment?

Of course not. Frigates vary from a docking work period where they undergo extensive third line maintenance to high readyness ships on deployment. We take techs to sea to do first line repairs and maintenace in the even something breaks, be that a crane, cable, phone, radio or radar. It's also why frigates have multiple redundancies and work arounds, often within the same system, do you don't lose capability or have a single point of failure.

There's never been any electronic age warship, ever, in the history of the world, that everything worked perfectly. Too much complication and too many different systems for that to happen. Which means this is happening to the "enemy" as well. How we manage these faults caused by high tech equipment in a moving, salt filled environment is why sailors are our most important asset, not the gear. Hell, entire Naval trades exist to manage this natural entropy and keep our capabilities (Combat Systems and Marine Systems Engineers).

All things being equal if a ship can keep higher availability rates on their equipment than the enemy they're starting ahead.

Do they have a full compliment of ammunition and ordnance?

See my first para.

OPSEC...

I think I did pretty good to keep to the open source generalities...

 

[Maxman1]

3 JSS plus 2 Mistral class both based on the west coast but until the 3rd JSS is built maintain two civil Asterix class. Having the Asterix available bought us a lot of brownie points off Port Sudan.

Better yet, four JSS and three Mistrals of the BPC 240 spec.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Better yet, four JSS and three Mistrals of the BPC 240 spec.

And then park them all because we have enough crew for 2 MCDVs and a tug boat after PAYCUTFORGEN.

 

[Underway]

And then park them all because we have enough crew for 2 MCDVs and a tug boat after PAYCUTFORGEN.

Wrong thread, take it outside.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Wrong thread, take it outside.

Our crewing woes have a seat at this table.

 

[childs56]

And then park them all because we have enough crew for 2 MCDVs and a tug boat after PAYCUTFORGEN.

But if you crew 2 out of three support ships with civilian crews now were talking. A Navy Reservist can work and get trained by the Military, then contract as a Sailor to the fleet. It is a win win for everyone........