MTShaw
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By then it will be a 30yo ship. If the current government wanted a 3rd AOR (i agree we need some sort HADR vessel) it would likely buy another JSS.
AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
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Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Maybe get Davie to build us two more? To be fair to Astreix, she was only in service as a container ship for about 5 years. Then a major refit and conversion, whioch took about 3 years from purchase to completion.
MTShaw
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Victoria and Vancouver shipyards are both operated by Seaspan. David is a refit yard. All of our ships, CCG, RCN frigates and subs are maintained there. I don’t think Seaspan’s parent company is interested in screwing around with Canadian politics. The government has to follow the NSS or they cold be sued. Notice how quickly the Polar icebreaker reappeared on Seaspan’s books very quickly after Trudeau tried to change the rules of the NSS without asking Seaspan.
Seaspn is also needed to operate the port of Vancouver. If the port stops, it will shutdown the west coast of North America, pissing Americans off and probably destroying the Port. Seaspan is in a position of power and won’t bend to appeasing people who lost the contract in the first place
They will buy a JSS.
Davie was given left overs from after the NSS deal was signed
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The ships been rode hard and put away wet, it would be much better to have a new ship than an orphan class.
Colin Parkinson
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Ocean would be very happy that Seaspan shuts down, they did very well during the recent tugboat strike.
As for Davie, it's clear they are getting let into the NSS one way or another. I rather have an extra older AOR to cover the gaps, than just 2 new ones, because it's not enough. Likely if they got an order for 1-2 more, they would go about it in the same way.
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Especially since the AOPS was a West Coast design in the first place as well.
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Halifax Tar
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Agreed. Two JSS backed up by two Asterx would be a great combination.
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Or just maybe 4-5 JSS…
Halifax Tar
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Sure, but I think they take longer to make and cost more.
Having a couple pure oilers ( Civi crewed ) backing up the JSS would give some added flexibility.
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My concern is that 2-3 JSS won’t be enough.
And that anything likely the Asterix would be placed considerably further forward than ideal for it’s ship design.
Colin Parkinson
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This podcast gives a great view on how fuel needs to be moved and how RAS got it's start. I would love more of the JSS AOR's but unlikely to happen. Using the "Quebec political factor" to get more ships manned by mixed crews is worth it though.
Halifax Tar
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War and the enemy will dictate your doctrine to you, you're correct.
But I think our days of 'Battle Tankers' like PRE/PRO are over.
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Understood, I’m just concerned as looking to the very near future with so many UCV’s and SubSurface UCV systems being able to launch munitions or UAS carrying munitions - that no vessel is a non combatant, and everything needs to be hardened for battle.
Halifax Tar
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You're absolutely correct. Our ability to replace battlefield casualties is going to be on display very fast.
Yet anything built in Canada will be a "orphan" class our 12 Halifax class ships are orphans. The Jss are orphans. the AOPs are orphans.
How is the US doing with their fleet of Oilers hardened for battle crewed by civies?
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Orphan class is not a word to be used for warships. If the French build a class of 4 corvettes and then build 2 more to sell to Egypt by def'n that's not an orphan class. Even though there are 12 HFX ships sailing vs 6 of the other somehow being an "orphan class" is a bad thing?
The Arliegh Burke is an orphan class. Yet its the most common warship in the world. No one else uses it but the US.
Halifax Tar
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There are derivatives of the ABs used by other nations:
Atago-class destroyer (JMSDF)
Kongō-class destroyer (JMSDF)
Maya-class destroyer (JMSDF)
Sejong the Great-class destroyer (ROKN)
*Stolen from Wikipedia
Colin Parkinson
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The US is realizing they don't have enough oilers to sustain them and that the US reserve fleet is in bad way.
OldSolduer
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The result of the “peace dividend “
The US Oiler fleet is their most heavily used fleet they have. There are lots of reports on the use and abuse of that fleet. They need to build new ships which they are currently doing. They are not building battle hardened fleet Oilers, They are building floating fuel platforms which meet current and future Navel regulations for tanker ships.
I did not start the term "orphan" Stoker mentioned it.
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