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Announcements & Decisions on Tactical & Stratigic Airlift (Fall 2005 and 2006)

BSmith12 said:
Good points indeed. Is it possible that if our nation's people show more of their support for our CF, there may be a consideration for a bigger military budget? Perhaps an employment boom will open their eyes? Or maybe... more promotional material in society? My thoughts on the subject.   :cdn:

There definately is not nearly enough public awareness... you can only blame the government so much for what the CF has become.
The people are most to blame.

The people elected these people, and they said and did nothing as the military was cut down and cut down, but blaming people will fix nothing.
Not only do people need to be aware of the problems, they also have to care, and quite frankly i dont see that happening anytime soon, and ironically, a terrorist attack in canada would probobly be the best thing to happen to the military in years.

Originally nuetral and uncaring canadians would be out for blood and demand the military roll out in force.... surprise surprise, its withered away into a shell of its former self. Way to go voters.
 
BSmith12 said:
Good points indeed. Is it possible that if our nation's people show more of their support for our CF, there may be a consideration for a bigger military budget? Perhaps an employment boom will open their eyes? Or maybe... more promotional material in society? My thoughts on the subject.   :cdn:

My mom used to say there are three types of un-truths in the world:   lies, damn lies and statistics.

A pollster can ask the question:   "If it can be done without a tax increase, do you favour more money being spent of Defence?" The answer will be "YES" 7 times out of 10. (With a margin for error of plus or minus three percentage points based on a random sampling of 50 Albertans contacted by phone during Hockey Night in Canada.)

A second pollster can ask the question: "Do you favour more money being redirected to Defence from othe federal programs?"   The answer will be "NO" 9 times out of 10. (With a margin for error of plus or minus three percentage points based on a random sampling of 1500 Toronto area Canadians contacted by phone during dinner hour.)

But, you see, it's the SAME QUESTION, just worded differently to get the statistical response that the pollster needs to prove his point (or support his political party)

Despite anything the CF does to promote itself, it is ultimately the government of the day that approves the release of CF information by the CF.   Why do you think CF recriuting materials are so politically correct, non gender specific, racially diverse and inoffensive?
 
jmackenzie_15 said:
There definately is not nearly enough public awareness... you can only blame the government so much for what the CF has become.
The people are most to blame.

The people elected these people, and they said and did nothing as the military was cut down and cut down, but blaming people will fix nothing.
Not only do people need to be aware of the problems, they also have to care, and quite frankly i dont see that happening anytime soon, and ironically, a terrorist attack in canada would probobly be the best thing to happen to the military in years.

Originally nuetral and uncaring canadians would be out for blood and demand the military roll out in force.... surprise surprise, its withered away into a shell of its former self. Way to go voters.

Yep, and they'll be kickin' themselves in the a** for not supporting the military sooner, the attitude of our society is questionable.
Why can't we all show our support for not only the ones who have fallen for us, but the ones who are still serving us every day? Why not join the CF for this reason? Why not? :-\
 
The fact of the matter is that there's a constituency in Federal politics that looks down upon anything military.

This group (and it crosses party lines) regards the CF as a waste of money, soldiers as marginally-intelligent idiots, the military leadership as a group of pathelogical liars out to pad their own nest by working hand-in-glove with defence contractors, and anyone agitating for defence issues as a "Col Blimp".  Typically, this group will regard anyone arguing for defence purchases - no matter how well reasoned - as being an American lackey.  Since we all know how well anti-Americanism plays with the electorate, politicos are thus reluctant to be seen to be supporting a pro-defence position unless it does something for them personally in their own ridings.

This round of proposed purchases is even worse, as the requirement has been brought home by recent operations in Afghanistan and other less happy places.  This doesn't sit well with the anti-military cabal who would prefer a CF that is seen (preferably in blue berets "helping" people) and not heard.

Until the anti-military group in both Government and the public service realizes what desperate straits the CF is in, this farcical circus is going to continue.  Unfortunately, no amount of lobbying by the usual "suspects" (like the CDA, etc.) will convince them; it will take something far more dramatic from a far more unconventional source.  Unfortunately, there are few real independent defence experts in Canada that can sound the alarm bell to these people with anything approaching credibility.
 
BSmith12 said:
Yep, and they'll be kickin' themselves in the a** for not supporting the military sooner, the attitude of our society is questionable.

Teddy Ruxpin said:
This doesn't sit well with the anti-military cabal who would prefer a CF that is seen (preferably in blue berets "helping" people) and not heard.

The attitude of our society is based on the much perpetuated myth of the "peacekeeper".  See my remarks in reply #21 regarding CF self promotion.

Teddy Ruxpin said:
Until the anti-military group in both Government and the public service realizes what desperate straits the CF is in, this farcical circus is going to continue.   Unfortunately, no amount of lobbying by the usual "suspects" (like the CDA, etc.) will convince them; it will take something far more dramatic from a far more unconventional source.   Unfortunately, there are few real independent defence experts in Canada that can sound the alarm bell to these people with anything approaching credibility.

That's because there is no tangible, visible threat to Canada for an "expert" to use to bolster his/her credibility. Canadian soliders aren't dying at Yonge and Bloor Streets for a clearly defined reason.  They're dying in Afghanistan in a loosely defined "War Against Terror".  Most urban Canadians would argue that they'd be better employed in the Jayne and Finch area or Vancouver.

It's been over 150 years since an invader trod upon Canadian soil.   Our collective memory of those battles is mostly gone. (Only the oldest of RSMs was alive then. ;D)   If that were to happen again, most Canadians believe that the Americans will defend us.  Most probably, that's true as it would be in thier best interests to maintain a friendly, like-minded democracy on their northern border.  

Living next to the world's only remaining superpower is like living next to the police station.  You get protected by geography. 

But the question the public doesn't want to ask remains:   Once the US is done defending our soil, will they leave?
 
There is one problem with living next to the only big bear in the neighborhood...
There's always the risk that "it" will roll over (though inadvertedly) and crush the "H" out of you....
 
Teddy Ruxpin said:
The fact of the matter is that there's a constituency in Federal politics that looks down upon anything military.

This group (and it crosses party lines) regards the CF as a waste of money, soldiers as marginally-intelligent idiots, the military leadership as a group of pathelogical liars out to pad their own nest by working hand-in-glove with defence contractors, and anyone agitating for defence issues as a "Col Blimp".   Typically, this group will regard anyone arguing for defence purchases - no matter how well reasoned - as being an American lackey.   Since we all know how well anti-Americanism plays with the electorate, politicos are thus reluctant to be seen to be supporting a pro-defence position unless it does something for them personally in their own ridings.

This round of proposed purchases is even worse, as the requirement has been brought home by recent operations in Afghanistan and other less happy places.   This doesn't sit well with the anti-military cabal who would prefer a CF that is seen (preferably in blue berets "helping" people) and not heard.

Until the anti-military group in both Government and the public service realizes what desperate straits the CF is in, this farcical circus is going to continue.   Unfortunately, no amount of lobbying by the usual "suspects" (like the CDA, etc.) will convince them; it will take something far more dramatic from a far more unconventional source.   Unfortunately, there are few real independent defence experts in Canada that can sound the alarm bell to these people with anything approaching credibility.

I agree, but I would argue that it is even worse.

I believe there is a substantial slice of the most senior public servants who consider:

1. Defence policy is a bad joke and little, beyond maintenance should be spent on military hardware until coherent foreign and defence policies are enunciated;

2. Defence management (civilian and military) is inept and dishonest -

2.1. The top levels of DND are isolated in two 'stovepipes' - one military, one civil - the two do not work together, as a defence team in support of defence objectives.   Consequently most defence policy and procurement proposals are weak: poorly conceived and inadequately developed; that's one of the reasons funded projects now take 10-15 years from approval to hardware rather than seven, as they used to and as the still do in e.g. Australia and the UK, and

2.2. Admirals and general are either liars or fools - they cry "rust out" again and again and again and then they go and find a way to do the job.   That means that all the 'fat' has not, yet, been cut so spending increases are unwarranted;

3. DND is a dumping ground for lazy bureaucrats;

4. Admirals and generals are busy being (rank) amateur bureaucrats - which means that there are too few leaders looking after the CF; and

5. Senior DND bureaucrats leave their military colleagues hung out to dry - again and again and again when a few simple lessons in Ottawa bureaucratic politics are in order.

For all these reasons, and more, DND will remain a poor relation: poorly managed, badly led, under-funded, unappreciated, etc, etc, etc.

Edit: correct typo and spelling
 
Well I do believe most of us shere would agree with all 5 points.  So where does that leave us....

I think our only hope is to appeal to the doves and remind them that a robust, well led, combat ready military could in fact be used to stop genocide, or other such turmoil in the world (third world).  The answer doesn't lie in trying to convince the doves that we need to be more combat ready to assist the U.S., that would scare the shit out of them.  We need to cinvince the Bono's and gang that we can make a difference in the 'neglected' parts of the world.  This increases our soft power through hard power.
These guys are obviously the ones that are pulling the strings in Ottawa, they need to be convinced that a military is needed for purposes other than assisting the U.S.. 


 
Edward Campbell said:
1. Defence policy is a bad joke and little, beyond maintenance should be spent on military hardware until coherent foreign and defence policies are enunciated;

The CF represents "hard power": the ability to influence events in a visible, dramatic and immediate way.  Canadian foreign policy advocates the Axworthian "soft power":  diplomacy, in the hallowed and time tested traditions of the United Nations. This takes years to nurture and rarely shows results due to the ever changing face of the worlds stage.  Even if no results are evident, progress is, as the two (or more) sides are always seen as "negotiating".

UberCree said:
We need to convince the Bono's and gang that we can make a difference in the 'neglected' parts of the world.   This increases our soft power through hard power.

Any coherent joining of the two isn't possible at present without a drastic change in public services' perception of how the DND/CF and it's "hard power" can contribute to foreign policy by speeding the implementation of "soft power" initiatives.  As Teddy (Roosevelt not Ruxpin) said "walk softly and carry a big stick".


Edward Campbell said:
2.2. Admirals and general are either liars or fools - they cry "rust out" again and again and again and then they go and find a way to do the job.   That means that all the 'fat' has not, yet, been cut so spending increases are unwarranted;

There is tremendous fat in NDHQ (and, no, this isn't going to turn into another "fitness" thread) and all the HQs around the country.  I don't see CF Transformation doing away with that any time soon. That being said, the Admirals and Generals know full well that if they cannot find a way to "git 'er done" when the PMO comes calling, the Minister will find someone who can, and will, answer the government's bell.

Edward Campbell said:
3. DND is a dumping ground for lazy bureaucrats;

This I dispute as I've personally seen and worked for some highly energetic and innovative people in DND.  Unfortunately too often bureaucracy doesn't reward innovation.  Looking for lazy?  Maybe they should look towards PWGSC?

Edward Campbell said:
4. Admirals and generals are busy being (rank) amateurs bureaucrats - which means that there are too few leaders looking after the CF

There are still far too many "leaders" looking after themselves.  It's only very recently that the top uniformed positions in the CF have been held by members with real and recent operational experience.  Below them is where the careerism starts.

Edward Campbell said:
5. Senior DND bureaucrats leave their military colleagues hung out to dry - again and again and again when a few simple lessons in Ottawa bureaucratic politics are in order.

Because the bureaucrats know that they CAN hang them out with impunity.  What career oriented CF member is going to publicy question a bureaucrat who makes a bad call?  They know it's better to "take one for the team" than to show the Defence Team in a bad light.
 
Just wait for it guys - if the American's can pull out of the spin dive of MacNamara and Vietnam, we can get away from Peacekeeping and "Soft Power".  Just got to keep up the good fight.
 
Well, I was under the impression that we were slowly winning.  DND has a much higher profile than previously, with a minister that is actually "in the game" (as opposed to a hack who needed the job).  The minister seems to have bought into the vision for the CF and has - rather successfully - moved us away from the bizarre image so carefully crafted over the last three decades.  The crux of the problem is that the CF (and by extension DND) has had little success in articulating that vision - and it's requirements - to an audience beyond those already convinced.

2.2.  Admirals and general are either liars or fools - they cry "rust out" again and again and again and then they go and find a way to do the job.  That means that all the 'fat' has not, yet, been cut so spending increases are unwarranted;

Edward, once again, hits the nail on the head.  The CF, despite all its problems, has become very good at making things happen with minimal resources.  The politicos and bureaucrats don't see (or don't care about) the effect on our personnel or on our rapidly aging major equipment.  Their argument - and I've heard it before - would be "that's why they join" - despite the fact that we have soldiers doing multiple back to back tours in some instances.  Further, most of these people have little frame of reference upon which to base an opinion on military matters.  The lack of knowledge of some is quite stunning and there is little inclination to investigate issues to the depth they require.  With no experience (except that gained from watching TV), with preconcieved ideas and a political agenda, the bureaucratic "machine" exercises far more influence on the process than it deserves to.  Unfortunately, this is the audience that we - and all who care about the future of the military in Canada - must convince.

I would add something else in the current context.  CF Transformation is proceeded extremely rapidly - to the point where some of us are becoming somewhat uncomfortable at the lack of an articulate strategic "plan" and the forced pace of the changes.  Equipment purchases in the present environment cannot be conducted without fully describing how they fit into the plan.  I think I have a decent idea, but no more, and I'm fairly close to the issues at hand.  I can only imagine what the anti-military establishment thinks when presented with a $12 billion dollar package that detractors claim is generated "off the cuff" by Generals to support a mission that, to their mind, is merely fighting a war on behalf of the Americans...
 
Teddy Ruxpin said:
The CF, despite all its problems, has become very good at making things happen with minimal resources.   The politicos and bureaucrats don't see (or don't care about) the effect on our personnel or on our rapidly aging major equipment.   .... Further, most of these people have little frame of reference upon which to base an opinion on military matters.   The lack of knowledge of some is quite stunning and there is little inclination to investigate issues to the depth they require.  ....Unfortunately, this is the audience that we - and all who care about the future of the military in Canada - must convince.

Doubtless you've heard of the CF Parliamentarian Program, where MPs of all parties actually spend time with the troops on operations.  We had one on my last tour who, even though he was a Fibberal, left Bosnia with a completely different opinion of who we are and what we do.  He'd done other "viists" to the troops where he was whizzed from place to place in an air conditioned vehicle, and hosted in the messes.  I was told that our approach was a real eye opener.

The problem with this approach is that MPs and ADMs are not the real power brokers on DND or the government for that matter.  We have to target the DMs and the mandarins; those who remain in place to really run things, while goverments come and go.  Despite the party in power, the people and policies that drive our department haven't really changed much in over the years.

It's those policy makers and thier staffs who should be on these visits, not thier "temp help" elected masters.
 
I agree that DND needs to transform the attitudes and ingrained beliefs of the most senior Mandarins (the deputies).

Do not, however, minimize the importance of MPs: the PM lives and dies on the support of his caucus - a pro-military PM cannot push an anti-military caucus very far.   Back-bench MPs are both leaders and follows with respect to their constituencies: they bring their constituents' POVs to Ottawa and they are supposed to bring the party's (cabinet's) POV back to the constituency.   When, as in Canada in 2000, one social issue, health care, totally dominates the political agenda there is neither much scope nor much need for Liberal MPs to do anything: their constituents' main concern - reinforced by so-called journalists who are, in reality little more than stenographers, taking dictation from Liberal Party spin doctors - is also the central plank of the Liberal Party's platform.

There may, however, be a window in 2005/06.

"¢ Canadians are, I think (maybe I just hope and my thought represents the triumph of hope over experience, again), becoming aware of the fact that the current health care model is unsustainable and, in fact, undesirable: the WHO ranks us 30th in health care performance - below everyone in the OECD (the developed world)? - but we are near the top in health care spending in GDP per capita terms.   Canadians are, slowly but surely, I think. coming to realize that they have been sold a bill of (Stalinist) goods.   They know the Canadian/Cuban/North Korean model is wrong; they know the system must change; they know the Liberal/NDP alliance is incapable of making the change; and

"¢ Canadians are turning their attention to other, difficult, issues: aboriginals, infrastructure, productivity, education and foreign policy.   None are easy, none have anywhere near the political traction of free health care, but all are climbing up the agenda - it might be that Canadians are waking from a 20 year political coma.

This is about defence, I promise; I'm just too lazy to organize my thoughts into a short, sharp, clear post.

So, MPs still matter and might matter a lot more now that there is an opportunity to broaden the political agenda to include foreign and defence policy,   MPs need to understand what General Hillier needs to do and why he needs to do it - build more efficient and combat effective, combat ready forces so that he can give the government more choice, more flexibility to do Canada's will in the world - and they need to take that back to their constituencies and do some mind changing.

I believe the deputies pose a different problem.   They do not, I think, disagree with much of anything General Hillier says or wants to do with the military.   They do not believe that DND (which includes the CF) is properly managed; they do not believe that the Department's management can give effect to Hillier's ambitions.   Even worse: they believe Hillier is working in a policy vacuum.   Many (maybe even most) mandarins understand that Canada does not have a coherent foreign policy.   We are, in effect, stuck in the 1969 model, which had two overwhelming faults which made it a totally failed policy from the day it was published:

"¢ It failed, totally and miserably, to address the central issue in Canadian foreign policy - the United States; and

"¢ It stated, explicitly, that Canada had neither the means nor even the will to make any appreciable   difference in the world.

The saddest thing about the '69 policy mess was, still is, that is popular - especially amongst Liberals and a large slice of the academic pseudo-intelligentsia.

If we have no coherent foreign policy, argue some mandarins, then how can we have a useful defence policy?   Why send good money after bad?   Absent a useful defence policy Hillier's ideas and plans are just band-aids - expensive band-aids.   DND doesn't need a band-aid, it needs major surgery.   Until that happens, they suggest, money is better spent on aboriginals, education, infrastructure, and, and, and, ad infinitum.

I suggest 'we' (General Hillier, actually) do not need to take the deputies to Afghanistan.   The deputies already know that the men and women in units and formations, including their commanders, are good people doing the right thing and doing things right.   They believe that those few good men (and women) are ill-served in Ottawa, by Ottawa.   We do need to change the deputies' minds but words will not do the trick unless they are White Paper words backed up by bureaucratic and management reform within DND and, equally important, within the incredibly complex, inefficient and highly politicized defence procurement process.

The problems and solutions are not, in so far as I understand the mandarins' views, just within the budget and procurement processes.   The problems start with policy and include organization, management (including the civilian military 'split' and 'overlaps' in NDHQ), communications (public relations) and money and procurement.

If I understand them then I agree with the mandarins.

Edit: corrected grammar
 
i think part of the problem Canada has with its military is the lack of politicians who have done military service - who was the last Prime Minister with "true" military service - Pearson... Unlike the Americans, having done military service as a Canadian is considered a disgrace - or seems to be - i lost my job at a university in Canada due to rumours that "He was in the army therefore he is a crazed killer". (The University of Saskatchewan by way). Until more former soldiers enter politics or enter positions of seniority in government or business, not much will change. In otherwords, all serving and ex-soldiers, airmen and sailors must be ambassadors for the Armed Forces. The generals i think have not caught this either... Are we soldiers mostly hidden away from the public and the true interface, the militia, is it not still starved for funds and even respect amongst the brass-hats?
 
From the Globe And Mail 20/11/2005

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051120.wmilitary1119/BNStory/National/

All of a sudden the Hercs have turned into Galaxys.  ???
 
I'm posting the whole article as this one is too good to miss and the link may die within a day or so.

Cheers

Slim

Ottawa â ” The federal government expects to announce Tuesday it will proceed with the $4.6-billion purchase of 16 transport aircraft for the Canadian military.

Despite industry protests to the contrary, officials insist the accelerated, streamlined process will be based on open bidding. They say at least two companies â ” Airbus and Lockheed Martin â ” are in the running.

The purchase is remarkable because it was part of a larger package that had effectively been shelved one week ago as political dynamite in the days before a federal election. That effort was smothered by competing constituencies in cabinet and corporate Canada.

A relentless series of phone calls from Defence Minister Bill Graham to cabinet colleagues and overseas conversations with Prime Minister Paul Martin travelling in Asia over the past week resurrected a priority portion of the original $12.1-billion purchase.

Defence officials said Mr. Graham realized he would have to scale back his wish list if he was going to win anything for the Forces before an election.

"That snake could not swallow that hog at this point," a senior defence official said.

Mr. Graham would only say he will take "some elements" of the aircraft package that are generally considered "uncontroversial" to cabinet Monday.

"I spoke to the prime minister in Korea and he encouraged me to proceed," Mr. Graham said in an interview.

He said Mr. Martin knows the military has a key role to play in Canada's foreign policy and can't do so without the right equipment.

"Certainly, the airlift capacity is a key part of that," said Mr. Graham. "Take the Hercules fleet â ” everybody in the country knows it's coming to the end of its useful life."

Department officials and senior military officers later confirmed Graham will propose a plan to purchase the tactical transport aircraft, widely expected to be Lockheed Martin's C-17J, though they insisted no decision on what aircraft has been made.

The Airbus A-400 is also considered a competitor, though it has some hurdles to overcome, a senior official said.

"This project is Priority No. 1 â ” for the government, the minister, and the chief," a source said on condition of anonymity.

The performance requirements say first deliveries are to be as soon as possible but no later than three years, with final deliveries no later than five years from awarding of the contract.

Another official said planners hope first deliveries can be made within 18-24 months. The expenditure would include in-service support for 20 years.

A senior military officer said the reversal is almost too good to be true.

Uniformed staff at National Defence Headquarters are having a hard time believing Mr. Graham managed to bring the purchase back from the dead â ” the political equivalent of what one observer called a "back flip with a twist."

"And to see this happen fast is outstanding. It shows a solid commitment that we're not used to."

The aircraft plan had also included heavy-lift helicopters and search-and-rescue planes, but officials say corporate lobbyists convinced some key ministers to resist an initiative they argued would open a political Pandora's box in Quebec and Ontario.

In an effort to reduce a procurement period that has averaged 12 years, defence planners have reduced the transport plane's requirements to a single page of performance needs. Similar documents have numbered 17,000 pages.

The Canadian aerospace industry fears that by producing the performance-based requirements, the government is aiming to sole-source the contracts â ” targeting Italy's C-27J SaR aircraft along with the U.S.-built Hercules tactical transport plane and Chinook heavy-lift helicopter.

"The minute we announced we were going to do this, a whole host of lobbyists descended like locusts on the summer fields and decided to try to eat the fruit before it could grow," Mr. Graham said.

He said the lobbying campaign â ” conducted mainly by ex-generals â ” began before the performance requirements were even published.

"There was a huge campaign based on a lot on rumours and not on fact . . . because everybody felt they wanted to make sure they had a piece of this," said the minister.

"I was distressed because I felt there were some people around town who would rather derail it than see it happen."

Mr. Graham said the NDP announced they would force an election just as he was to present the big package to cabinet.

Cabinet ministers were reminded of what happened when former Tory prime minister Kim Campbell announced a major helicopter purchase just before the 1993 election â ” it became a tempting political morsel for the Liberals.

"If you get procurement policy mixed up in an election process, it can set the process back rather than further it," said Mr. Graham.

Earlier this month, the Conservative defence critic, retired general Gordon O'Connor, said he was concerned the government was rushing the process unnecessarily and made the requirements "so precise only one solution's possible."

But some say the acquisitions are inevitable, have been budgeted for and have such widespread support in Parliament they would be implemented by whichever party wins the election.

Mr. O'Connor â ” the former director of military requirements and an ex-industry lobbyist â ” said later there is nothing stopping the Liberals from going ahead with plans to replace aircraft.

Officials say the new process, with a single page of performance-based requirements rather than detailed specifications for every nut and bolt, will save $250-million over the project's life.

Lobbyists pay lip service this more streamlined approach but "when the rubber hits the road, it's harder to influence because you have a fewer number of things to influence and they are pretty set in concrete," said one official.

"Before, there were 50,000 things to influence and they weren't necessarily set in concrete. And that's how these guys make their dough."

Some of the military's current Hercules transport aircraft â ” mid-range planes used to ferry troops, supplies and equipment in and out of theatre â ” are more than 40 years old.

A senior air force general said Canada is regarded worldwide as the foremost expert in maintaining Hercs with more than 40,000 hours in the air. "We're becoming world leaders in a field of aviation that we don't want to be in."

 
This is still a long way from being approved â “ in the Blue Book, etc.  But it is a huge step in the right direction.

The real message is that the Liberals' own polling says that Canadians want this, now â “ the Liberals' left and the NDP must be in shock.  It is important that both the Liberals and the Conservatives restate this election promise (because that's really all it is) during the campaign.

Tory defence critic O'Connor has got to engage his brain before he puts his mouth in gear and bad mouths this.
 
Just a couple eye candy visuals of the C-130J and the Airbus A-400

Herc
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=11165&rsbci=0&fti=126&ti=0&sc=400

A-400
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/specifications.html
 
career_radio-checker said:
Just a couple eye candy visuals of the C-130J and the Airbus A-400

Herc
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=11165&rsbci=0&fti=126&ti=0&sc=400

A-400
http://www.airbusmilitary.com/specifications.html

OK...So is it the C130J or the Globemaster? I see both in the articles above.
 
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