Announcements & Decisions on Tactical & Stratigic Airlift (Fall 2005 and 2006)

[KevinB]

+1

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Buying a plane because it can carry a LAVIII is a red herring - Canada will never have the numbers to move LAV's in significant numbers to make a useful force - even the American's have trouble doing this.   We need to get this into our head when we shop for "medium weight, deployable forces".   There is a good RAND study on this.

Maybe I'm the board simpleton then but to me it appears you either need a plane that can carry your kit, or your need to resdesign your forces to suit your transport assets.

So if we are going to go to C-130, then the LAV-III shouldn't be the backbone and instead we should be move to a light infantry force based on our maximizing the potency of our G-Wagens.

However, if the LAV-III is the backbone, then we bloody well need something to carry it.

Bottom Line:  It appears to me that this may be the only opportunity the Canadian Forces will have in the next 25 years to procure air assets that will allow for a real rapid reaction force, and if we miss it by purchasing aircraft that are too small, then we'll be right back in the same position we've been for the last 20, owning assets we have no way to effectively deploy or support.


JMHO,

Matthew. 

P.S.  RE: The Ilyushin's quality assessment - Has anyone here actually ever been in one?  I've been inside a C-5, a C-17 and a number of a C-130's at the Trenton Air Show but have no knowledge of the Ilyushin's capability outside the statistics provided by various publications.

 

[KevinB]

Matthew,

Rapid reactions are done by Light forces.  We will NEVER have enough A/C to be able to immediately insert a medium force. 

Even if you shuttled LAV's in the A400 or IL's  you would end up being able to drop a Platoon or at most a Company (-).  Which woudl then have NO supplies.  Issues like Non-Combatant Evacuation operations are best done by light forces who can secure a airhead and send out platoons or sections depending upon threat to secure the civilians for removal.  If you send out a LAVIII force -- fine where do the civilians fit?

And if you are proposing moving a BattleGroup or Brigade - Sealift will get you their much faster than a series of nonsop onezy twoezy lifts.

I believe the CF's vision for this is to keep tactical transport with a rough field capability, using shipborne transport for our medium assets.

 

[tomahawk6]

Evidently the government is going ahead to buy 16 transports. The competition is between Boeing and A400M.

 

[Infanteer]

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1606/

Here is the RAND report on transportability of Stryker units.  You can download the entire document in a PDF file.

 

[UberCree]

The folk I know in the Stryker units said that their transport is very limited.  You have to take off armour, deflate tires, empty gas etc. to make them transportable.
Mind you they found them VERY useful in urban ops and the high speed light infantry unit is getting some because of this.  Not sure how they will make them easily / rapidly transportable.

 

[Infanteer]

Does anyone have any links to Lessons Learned/AARs on the Strykers?  Ubercree says they are useful for Urban operations, but I've seen guys say the opposite.  I know a Stryker unit was used in Op AL FAJR (Fallujah), but I think it was a cordon unit.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

http://www.rand.org/publications/MR/MR1606/

Here is the RAND report on transportability of Stryker units.   You can download the entire document in a PDF file.

Thanks Infanteer.  That looks like it will make some great reading tonight.



Matthew. 

 

[Pikache]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051122.wmilit1122/BNStory/National/

Liberals defend 4.6 billion aircraft purchase



By ALLISON DUNFIELD

Tuesday, November 22, 2005 Posted at 2:46 PM EST

Globe and Mail Update

Defence Minister Bill Graham made official Tuesday the announcement that the federal Liberals are spending $4.6-billion to purchase new military transport planes, and then immediately began to defend that decision.

Mr. Graham has been under fire from opposition MPs who insist that the Canadian military intends to bypass competition in order to speed replacement of its dilapidated Hercules transport planes.

The Conservative Party argues that the government is rushing the decision so they can use it as part of the Liberal platform in the coming election campaign.

However, the Defence Minister told a press conference in Ottawa on Tuesday that he had been involved personally in procuring the 16 planes for the past six months.

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Both he and Public Works Minister Scott Brison said the plan to replace the military's Hercules aircraft will be fast, open and fair.

"Our department will help ensure that the acquisition of the replacement aircraft is carried out in a fair, open, and transparent process," Mr. Brison said.

He also said the government will assign a "fairness monitor" to oversee the process.

The two ministers say the military's needs â ” not industrial and regional benefits â ” will be the priority.

The Canadian aerospace industry fears that the government's single page of performance-based requirements favours Lockheed Martin's C-130J airplane and eliminates other key competitors.

Government officials say the document is still being drafted.

Mr. Graham said procuring new equipment is "essential" because of the military's commitments over the next six months. The military is preparing for a combat mission to Afghanistan in the new year.

"You will see more significant defence procurements in the near future, but we start today," he said.
Last week, Mr. Graham had declared a $12.2-billion, three-aircraft procurement plan dead, after sharp criticism of the proposed bidding process from sources in the Canadian defence industry.

But over the weekend the Defence Minister revived what the military considers to be the most important part of its plan, a $4.6-billion purchase of 16 transport planes, because he thinks it is both politically feasible and urgently needed, sources say. A formal announcement is expected today.

 

[canuck101]

The is only one choice as alot of the other posts have said the A-400 is just starting to but built and there are 198 orders for them so far and it we were to add to that it would be over 200 but we would be at the back of the line waiting for many years too receive any.We needed replacement's many years ago and we can not wait. There would be a much shorter wait for c-130 J's and we can always chose if we want to get A-400's or c-17 later for strategic transport.

list of countries that have orders for the A-400:
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/fla/

 

[career_radio-checker]

I'm no pilot but you have to admit, the A-400 is the  sexiest of them all.

 

[JasonH]

Government of Canada Announces $4-5 Billion Tactical Airlift Project To Replace Aging Hercules    Print    E-mail
by Government of Canada 
Tuesday, 22 November 2005

The Government of Canada today announced it will move forward with the competitive procurement of a new tactical airlift fleet for the Canadian Forces. The tactical airlift project will see the purchase of at least 16 new aircraft valued at between $4-5 billion, including a 20-year in-service support contract.

"The Defence Policy Statement identifies airlift as a priority for the Canadian Forces and a new tactical airlift fleet, to replace the aging Hercules, is the first step in delivering on the promises of this policy," said Bill Graham, Minister of National Defence. "I am confident in the procurement strategy. We intend to buy military equipment faster and more efficiently than in the past by basing the competition on performance requirements such as range, speed and the ability to operate in remote and hostile environments."
"My department is committed to supporting National Defence in its program to replace its Hercules fleet. We will ensure the acquisition of replacement aircraft is carried out in a timely fashion while ensuring that the procurement process remains fair, open and transparent," said the Honourable Scott Brison, Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

"This new fleet will provide the men and women our forces with the right tools to do their job," said General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff. "The new aircraft will provide an essential airlift lifeline service to Canadians in distress and deployed forces, both at home and abroad."

The new tactical airlift aircraft will replace 13 older CC-130 Hercules, the workhorses of the Canadian Forces' transport fleet. Different variants of this rugged and versatile aircraft have served the Canadian Forces well since the early 1960s. The current CC-130 fleet continues to be the primary aircraft for tactical airlift, tactical air-to-air refuelling, and search and rescue.
   
The competitive procurement of these aircraft will begin immediately without compromising operational requirements, quality or cost. The procurement approach, a solicitation of interest and qualification, will be pursued to select the right aircraft for the Canadian Forces.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Kudos to the DND Public Affairs/Communications staff for this excellent piece in the National Post - which is reproduced under the fair comment provision of the Copyright Act:

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=c9fdcd0e-0a5e-4f23-a04a-946e5dee8817

Requiem for a veteran Hercules
Longest-serving aircraft of its kind in the world

Chris Wattie
National Post

Wednesday, November 23, 2005

The first of the Canadian air force's fleet of long-suffering CC-130 Hercules transport planes has finally succumbed to old age after 40 years and 20,816 flights on its log books.

Hercules 315 was the oldest aircraft of its kind in military service in the world.

It now rests, partially disassembled, in a maintenance hangar at the Canadian Forces 8 Wing in Trenton, Ont., the first of the stalwart cargo aircraft to fall victim to decades of wear and tear -- but not the last. Its retirement comes as Cabinet announced the purchase of 16 new replacements yesterday.

Hercules 315 flew into more than 50 countries, conducted life-saving search and rescue missions in Canada's North and carried thousands of soldiers and hundreds of tonnes of cargo to dirt landing strips in the Sudan and shell-cratered runways in the former Yugoslavia.

It was the first coalition aircraft into Sarajevo in 1992, carrying food and humanitarian aid into the besieged Bosnian city -- literally through the crossfire of Serb and Bosnian artillery duels.

"We flew her right down the middle of a battle ... but we never took a hit," says Warrant Officer Colin MacDonald, a flight engineer who served on 315 for more than half of the aircraft's long life. "She was a great old girl."

The transport plane also flew 75 missions into the dangerous skies of Afghanistan, dodging surface-to-air missiles and bullets over Kandahar, and developed a reputation over the years for being the most reliable aircraft in the Hercules fleet.

Captain Tim Hatheway, a Hercules pilot at CFB Trenton, recalls how 315 got him out of a potentially dangerous situation in a remote airstrip in Sudan last year despite losing one of its four engines.

"This was not a place where we wanted to spend the night, so we had to do a three-engine takeoff," he says. "It handled it no problem, which was a real relief to us."

Hercules 315 first flew in April, 1965, at Lockheed's Marietta, Ga., plant, one of 90 G-model C-130s produced that year, during the height of the Vietnam War. Her siblings were all bound for service with the U.S. Air Force and all have since been retired to aircraft graveyards.

She was among 20 G-models delivered between 1964 and 1967 to the then-Royal Canadian Air Force. At just over 40 years of age, 315 is not the oldest Hercules, but it has racked up the greatest amount of flying time -- the real measure of an aircraft's age -- with a total of 45,277.8 hours in the air.

Peter Simmons, a spokesman for Lockheed-Martin, marvels at the longevity of Hercules 315.

"That plane was the oldest military C-130 anywhere in the world," he said. "It had a staggeringly high number of flying hours."

By comparison, the U.S. military retires its Hercules after about 25,000 hours, he said.

"The Canadian maintainers have done just an amazingly good job. You have to hand it to them -- they kept that plane and the rest of the Canadian C-130s flying," he said. "But there comes a point where you just can't fight time."

Hercules 315 served in three different squadrons over its long life with the Canadian military, but since its retirement this summer it has become the property of 8 Air Maintenance Squadron. It is used to train aircraft mechanics who keep the rest of the Hercules fleet flying.

Much of the original airframe delivered in 1965 has been replaced over the years, and the rest has been repaired or overhauled during more than 600 modifications during its career.

Sergeant Gary Wall, at 59 one of only a handful of the aircrew who are older than the Hercules they fly, pats the dull grey fuselage of 315 -- sitting on blocks in a hangar surrounded by scaffolding and mechanics.

"Most flight engineers who've been flying for a while will tell you that you get a feel for each aircraft," he said. "This was a good one. I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't have retired this airplane -- it's still got some good flying hours in it.

"If they put a new wing on it, it'd be good for another 45,000 hours."

© National Post 2005​

I am guessing that Chris Wattie didn't just decide, one recent morning, to pop by Trenton and see if he could find a good 'Herc' story.  I'm guessing that:

"¢ He may have contacted DND public affairs and said: "Got anything good to follow up on the new aircraft purchase?  Maybe something about the old ones?" or

"¢ Journalists may have got a press release from DND with a story about No. 315 and Wattie may have been the guy to pick it up.

So BZ Public Affairs types for either starting the story or making sure that Wattie/National Post got enough good access to write a good one.

I'm betting that this story is worth more than all the Graham press conferences/news releases combined.  It tells ordinary Canadians why the new airplanes are necessary - sooner rather than later.

 

[Slim]

...And, perhaps, what airplane we are going to buy! Lets face it if we're retireing C130's right now, the Airbus is not going to cut it with a delivery date of 2015...

 

[geo]

only options at present are the 130J and the C17. As stated the A400, though promissing specs - would be delivered after too long a wait.

From what I saw in the news, the US gov't recently signed a contract to fund/build 3 x C17s without an end user in sight... just to keep the production line going. Do we need a mix of C17s and 130Js or are we better off with a fleet centered around the Herc?

 

[Infanteer]

Sounds like 315 (or at least the cockpit and nose end) should be sent to the Canadian War Museum.   The Americans put the Enola Gay on display at the Udvar Hazy Air and Space Center; it's neat to be able to get up close to a piece of Aviation history.

 

[KevinB]

I am sure the CF could make use of a mixed C17 and C130 fleet... 


Heck add a few C5A's and your a first world airforce  ;D

 

[Hmm donuts!]

I love how the Airbus A400 was even being considered, even though it only exists on paper. I definitly agree with the C17 and C130 idea, at least 3-4 C17's would put us up there. We do not necessarily need C5's, plus I've never heard of the U. S. selling them to anyone else.

 

[Armymatters]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060421.wxplanes21/BNStory/Front/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20060421.wxplanes21

Also of note is that there are talks to be bumped up the production line by taking airframes already on queue for the USAF, as we have US approval to do so. So C-17's will help ease the transport crunch for a while until we more immediate solutions come by? Thoughts?

 

[COBRA-6]

Good move, but I agree with Senator Kenny:

Senator Colin Kenny, former head of the Senate defence committee and a long-time advocate of greater defence spending, said new strategic airlift capability is long overdue. "We'll be a hell of a lot better off and there'll be a whole lot less strain on the system," he said.

Mr. Kenny cautioned, however, that such a purchase must not come at the expense of buying new tactical or short-haul transport planes. "Both have to come. And any solution that doesn't include a mix is not a satisfactory one for Canada."