All Things CF Firefighter (merged)

[CosmoK]

I wasn't mislead.  Most of the civvie direct entries for FF trade have their NFPA seals...the others are OT's.  It's very difficult to get in from civvie side.  And so it should be.

I understand that you have a similar life and there is plenty of life experience to be had.  But overall, I just don't see a fit at my stage in life.  I've been debating this for a couple of years now but recently have looked more into the pay scale and compared to civvie dept's, there is simply no comparison.  The pay in the Forces is based on rank, and this is what I don't agree with.  I don't think an RMS Clerk should make the same money as a FF...it's not right.  But that's the way the system is so I can love it or lump it.  And i'll be lumping it.

Respect to all the Forces though, but like we can agree on it's definitely not for everyone.  I am appreciative and proud of my short stint in the reserves. 

 

[Scott]

The you need not apply. Man, I tell ya, when I first got out of the school I would have given my left....arm to get on with any Department. Sounds to me like you may just think you are a shoe in for a city somewhere. Good on you if you are, but I wouldn't turn down a full time gig if that is what I had my sights set on.

Are you going for the job because of benefits or because you like the job?

Whatever, to each their own, I guess.

 

[CosmoK]

Both.  There is no other job i'd rather do....but I also know most wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the money, benefits, etc.  I WOULD do it for 1/2 the money, but not in the military...not at my age.
Plus FFing in the military is completely different than municiple.  And I prefer municiple.

 

[buddyhfx]

I don't see how different it can be between military and municipal firefighting. I mean we do structural, EMR, Haz-Mat, Comfined space, High angle rescue, Auto Extrication and of course our priority #1, Aircraft Crash Fire Rescue. Unless I misunderstood you, this is what we do. And when we're not on a call, we just don't sit around a the hall waiting for one. We train a lot and we do maintenance Ei: extinguishers, sprinkler systems, performance test on all vehicules, hydrants flow test and the list goes on. There is just a multitude of things that we do and most civilian fire dept don't do. Mind you that this good for someone that wants to get out after a while, with all the qualifications and experience that he has.

As far as someone not wanting to be on an Air force base or on ship, well that person is out of luck. This is what we do, the reason for military firefighters is Aircraft Crash Fire Rescue. If the ships didn't have helos, we wouldn't be onboard and you go to any army bases, their firehalls are manned by civvies.

Cheers...

 

[CosmoK]

Just curious why the army bases would be protected by civvies?

Well like I said, there is a difference between air force base FF's and municipal.  It has to do with call volume and the types of calls.  I understand that you can "potentially" have all the calls that you mention, but the reality is that you're gonna have more in the city, and I guess spend more time training in the air force.  To me, it's all about the calls....and I know i'll have more in the city.  I'll also be able to train as well.  Just different strokes for different folks....I just see my life different...buying a house and settling down and not moving around...i've done my fair share of moving, and quite frankly, i'm sick of it.  Like I said, I have full respect for you guys...and i'd probably sign up if I was 5-10 years younger.

 

[len173]

Hey guys, I'm new here and I have been reading this forum, lots of good info. thanks a lot. Anyways, i have just graduated high school(early grad for class of '06) and I would love to be a firefighter, but it seems like the more i look at it, the more everyone says to me, you will never get hired, theres no work for that, its too competetive..etc. Then i started looking into the CF FF, but i think i had the wrong idea, i was thinking it would be great to get into instead of going to a college for FF'ing. But from what I am reading here it seems that there is no point in me applying, im 18 with no FF experience, so im thinking i have no chance? Which seems wierd to me, because with the level of training the CF seems to provide FF's i dont see why everyone needs to already have so much experience, seems pointless. But it is what it is. But is there a way for me to apply, ONLY for FF and sort of if i never get in, then dont join the military, im unfamiliar with the process so if they never took my application in because of a lack of experience, could i just say forget the whole thing and continue as civi? also, what would you say are the requirements i would need to get in, like would you suggest having just FF level2...etc. And i was thinking about schools, but i really dont know what ones are better, or if any are, etc. BUt im in BC so i was thinking id take their professional FF program and get my level 1 & 2 there. Do you guys have any opinions on this school, or any suggestion of other really good ones? Back to the CF FF's though, do you guys get a descent amount of actual calls for fires, accidents etc.? Not that all the traning and preping done all day isn't important, but everybody likes to get out there and see some "action" for lack of a better term yah know? And finally, if you were to do 5-7 years in the forces then come out and apply to civi's, is it quite easy to find work, more than others. It just seems you have so much traning, plus military, which looks great to employers, so i would think you would have the upper edge? thanks for listening to my long winded post. I appreciate your replies.

Lenny

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I've been reading for a while and this is my first post and I want to say hello.

I also want to apologize for bringing up an old thread but I thought it was interesting.  As much as I'd love to be a firefighter, it probably can't happen for me eh?  I have no experience in the field, I am almost 32 and it seems the trade is never open.

For you firefighters on here I have a question.  Were you ever afraid of heights?  I'm not crazy about them myself and I talked to a firefighter for the city before who said he doesn't like heights but he doesn't think about it when he has a job to do.  If you ever were afraid of heights how did you cope with/overcome it? I'd really like to hear from you firefighters on this.  Thank you very much.

 

[Scott]

I've been reading for a while and this is my first post and I want to say hello.

I also want to apologize for bringing up an old thread but I thought it was interesting.  As much as I'd love to be a firefighter, it probably can't happen for me eh?  I have no experience in the field, I am almost 32 and it seems the trade is never open.

For you firefighters on here I have a question.  Were you ever afraid of heights?  I'm not crazy about them myself and I talked to a firefighter for the city before who said he doesn't like heights but he doesn't think about it when he has a job to do.  If you ever were afraid of heights how did you cope with/overcome it? I'd really like to hear from you firefighters on this.  Thank you very much.

Never say never. For a while there were a few cities that were in love with anyone over the age of 30. Seems they thought there would be an advantage to hiring someone more mature. Don't know if the practice is still in place, officially or unofficially, but it never hurts to try.

I am not a big fan of heights. Especially when climbing a ladder to get to said heights. I hate ladders, hate carrying stuff up them even more and hate going from ladder to roof and vice versa the most. I eventually learned to forget about it and just move on. The biggest thing for me has always been movement - if the ladder is moving (Show me one that doesn't) that is what makes me uncomfortable. Basically I'd just walk up to the ladder and jump aboard.

I don't know what to tell you. I don't like it at any time but I do it.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Well Scott, I do appreciate your input.  Thank you very much. 

Yes, I hate a moving ladder.  I can handle that more than when my friends are doing the moving though.  Yes, I was on a ladder before and my friends were shaking it.  Scared the crap out of me.  :threat:

It is nice to hear how firefighters handle it.  Thanks again.

 

[Heatwave]

Hoosierdaddy,
I won't say that I have a fear of heights, but I definitely have a respect for them.  One way in which the military FFs get adapted to heights is that they climb to within a few rungs of the top of a secured 40ft ladder (which is a feat in itself, if afraid of heights).  They then are told to perform a leg-lock, let go of the ladder with your hands, and lean back as far as you can.  You'll note that I said "adapted" to heights.  A fear is a fear.  If someone is afraid of spiders, it doesn't mean that they can't work around them, it just means that they are uncomfortable with them.  Naturally, there are multiple levels of fear, so I won't say that performing a leg-lock will rid someone of their fear of heights.  I believe it just builds their confidence in facing their fear.....does this sound too much like a Psychiatrist?

Anyway, something that I've witnessed as effective (and it was briefly spoke about), is to employ the mind of the individual having problems.  Some claustraphobic people I know have seemed "in control" when they went inside the incident as a Sector Commander.  They had a radio in one hand, a few people waiting for leading and direction, and a mission that had to be done.  You wouldn't know that the individuals had a fear.  Again, I'm by no means an expert on fears, this is just what I've seen happen.  So please take it as one person's experience. 

As an aside, I know a few people that do everything in their power to avoid going up an aerial ladder.  I don't believe it's totally because of the movement aspect, because they move it themselves when they are at the top.  I believe it has to do with the element of surprise and of not being in control.   

Chimo!

 

[Scott]

I'm with Heatwave. The first time I climbed a Bronto was to secure a flag to the basket for the Alberta Fire Chief's Convention. Our Bronto was 38m and had a ladder along side the booms all the way up and including the fly section (About 10 feet) We had the basket situated below the top of the boom so, in effect, I had to climb up, cross the gap between the boom and the fly then climb down to the basket.

Wellsir! I spent a good minute or so looking at that gap, looking through it at the ground far below and asking myself, repeatedly, if I really wanted to cross the open section. I sucked it up and went rhough with it and lived to tell the tale.

Two months later we responded to a fire with this rig and I was designated basket man. I scampered up the ladder, over the gap and down into the basket before I knew what hit me!! No shaky legs, no thought, I just did it.

The only thing I'll say about the leg lock is that I have always been very comfortable in doing it. As I said, I am fine when I have a mission or when I doing something fire related. I do not like climbing ladders with a bundle of shingles, hate roofing and detest working from high staging. I dunno, it's just a weird thing for me but something I can work through.

Maybe I added more to this, maybe I didn't. I think the bottom line is that there are enough things to be afraid of in the Fire Service that everyone will have some sort of job related fear of their own. Make sense?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Hey heatwave, thanks for your post.  I understand that it's more a matter of adapting to heights and that a fear is a fear.  I am afraid of snakes but I managed to hold a ball python last week, however, I am still afraid of snakes.  So I guess it is a case of adapting.

The aerial ladder does kind of intimidate me.  It's not very often that it is fully extended straight up though eh?  I see a lot of cases where it's more diagonal.  I was hoping that firefighters get their choice of what vehicle to work from in which case I would choose the engine. haha  But I realize that you don't get a choice. I think I will just have to find ways to learn to adapt.  If I don't get into the military to be a firefighter I will apply for a city job. 

Scott, yes you made sense.  Thank you.  I guess with the fire service being dangerous work there are many things to be afraid of.  I don't know for certain but I'd like to think I'd be more comfortable running into a burning building than up a tall ladder.

I do have a question though.  If a verbal warning is only for a week (as I was told in a PM) why does it still say "verbal warning" under my name when I post?  By all rights, shouldn't that disappear now? 

 

[Scott]

hoosierdaddy, gald you could make sense of it.

As for your warning:

Please accept my apologies for your warning being lifted a day late. Things have been pretty hectic for the Staff as of late and you slipped through the cracks.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Thanks Scott.  I understand.  Things happen.

So what is firefighting in the military like?  Have you guys been to sea yet? Are the shifts 24 hours like my city's f.d.? Here's a real dumb question...do firefighter pants have sewn-in knee pads or anything?  I imagine you guys would like having them.  Do I have to have certification from the Ontario Fire college to apply? If not, volunteer experience should help eh?  I am guessing they want more than raw recruits off the street?

 

[Scott]

hoosierdaddy,

I now realize that my profile may be somewhat misleading to someone like yourself, I am not a CF Firefighter, I am civvy. I started as a volunteer, went away to school at MUN and then was hired by an oilfield firefighting and well control company in Alberta where I worked for five years. I now spend my summers on the east coast and winters in the west. Summers I fight forest fires on a Helitack crew and winters I supervise a fire division for my old company.

I got a fantastic opportunity five years ago and continue to reap the rewards. I wouldn't have it any other way.

So, while I can comment on some things like who hires who, what experience is good/bad, volunteering, etc. I cannot comment on what matters to the CF as I am no longer a member and never was a member of the CF Fire Service.

IMHO, what is good for one should be good for another, the members here who do belong to the CFFS may be able to shed better light on that for you. Now, if you ever want to go forestry or oilfield I think I can help shed a bunch of light there.

Good luck.

 

[Sapper41]

In my humble opinion as an Edmonton firefighter if you really want to be a firefighter the civilian side is the only way to go.  Better lifestyle, job satisfaction, pay and actually getting to fight fire.  Lots of different things to get into technical (high angle) rescue, ice, boat and water, hazardous materials, CBRN, and fire investigation.  All this without seeing a boat, a posting or missing your family for more than 14 hours.

As to how to get here, to be honest stay away from CF firefighting.  Most cities want to draw from a broad range of disciplines and professions from teachers to trades people.  They don't want to hire the same cookie cutter guy/gal 100 times over.  If I were to pick a trade that would most help you getting in a city department I would have to say medic, combat engineer or any tech or building trade.  You need to bring more to the table than just fighting fire, it's always good to have an electrician, gas fitter or other trades person around for problem solving.

So if your under 24 I would say your best bet is to get into a city department is after your 3 year stint ( you can bring your pension over with most depts).  Get yourself involved in a volunteer fire department and/or volunteer for the base volunteer dept while on tour.  Take lifeguard and first aid instructor courses, civilian dive courses, air brake, basically get addicted to constantly stacking your resume.  Keep your ear to the ground for recruitment's (apply to big cities as the number of hires is larger), visit fire stations in your area, keep your math skills up for test time, maximize your pt potential.  When it comes to the interview remember the team concept, don't be cocky, the CF thing can work against you in certain cities, be confident in yourself and your accomplishments (but don't compare yourself to others) and make sure you let the panel know with out a doubt this is what you want to do with your life.

I have the best of both worlds now and can go overseas when I want on my own terms.  It's not the easiest career to get into, don't be in a rush enjoy your life, pay your dues, work hard and it will happen if you work at it.

My 2 cents.

Chimo!

 

[Heatwave]

I can't totally disagree with Sapper41.  If you are on this site looking to become a Firefighter, you're in the wrong location.  If you are interested in becoming a CF Firefighter, this is the right place for the latest info.  As for "better lifestyle, job satisfaction" that is a personal opinion, definitely.  The military lifestyle isn't for everyone, but to those that serve, most wouldn't give it up. 

To clarify, we do train in high angle/confined space rescue, hazmat, CBRN(E), fire/arson/explosion investigation, EMR, Auto ex, RPPA, ARFF (obviously our main reason for being), etc.  As for the ice, boat and water rescue, we have had to perform it for an actual incident, last year, but we don't generally train in it. 

Again, to clarify, I wouldn't say that staying away from CF Firefighting is key to employment at a civilian FD.  The main reason we are suffering from our current manning shortages is due to Fort McMurray, and almost anywhere in the province of Ontario.  They are picking up trained CF Firefighters like they are (excuse the pun), the next hottest thing.  In particular, Vaughn, Hamilton, and Pearson Airport.  However, as Sapper41 eluded to, having another trade is a serious bonus if looking towards employment at a civilian FD.  After all, why not hire someone that can bring some sort of "specialist" training to the Service.  And, although some of you may not wish to believe it, being a member of the Military can definitely work against you in certain cities.....not everyone is a fan. 

Also, don't forget that most new personnel have signed on for 5 years, not 3.  This being said, Military or not, Sapper41 gives some excellent ideas of how to "Pad" your resume.  It doesn't matter which department you chose to be with, the whole concept is to sell yourself - in a non-cocky fashion (good advice S41). 

Chimo!

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Thank you for your advice guys. 

Scott, yes I thought you were a military firefighter.  How does one get into oilfield/forest firefighting?  I imagine it's even tougher than getting onto a municipal department. 

Sapper, thank you for the various resume padding tips.  I'm a little older than 24 though.  I'll be 32 this fall.  I actually have thought about getting an electrical apprenticeship and getting my papers.  I thought that it could help me get onto a civvy department or give me a competitive advantage to getting into the Forces. 

You're darn skippy I gotta keep up my PT.  Firefighting is one of the most physically demanding jobs out there I believe. 

Heatwave, I'm looking for both.  I'd like to be a firefighter in the CF or on a civvy department.  I hope I can sell myself without being cocky. I tend to either be too cocky or too timid.  Both are bad.

All you firefighters, stay safe at work.

 

[Scott]

Industrial is a labour of love. Meaning you have to love the job or you won't last. Long hours, lots of driving but alot of fun and wicked pay when you see fires. You go pretty much balls to the wall during the winter months but it slows in the spring. I spent four years as a field hand then went into management and ICing on blowouts, not often you see guys getting to that elsewhere but we do because of turnover and because we have the potential to see alot of fire in a short amount of time. Longest project I ever did was 68 days. 68 days multiplied by $600 - 1500 (depending on your position) means lots of bank.

I was in McMurray for the fires of 02, Kelowna, Cranbrook and the Crowsnest for the fires of 03, I was on the G8 in Kananskis and, had Halliburton not screwed us, I would have been in for the afterparty of the last Iraq war capping the wells they sabotaged.

Like I said, it's great money but we work for it.

For some it isn't hard to get into, for others it is. Depends on the time of year and what base you apply to. Now is probably a bad time to look, closer to winter should be better. When I started it was dead easy to get on as a firefighter. Now they usually want guys who are both Fire and Medics and they ship them to work Medical first. I had medics working for me this past winter that saw the fire trucks one day out of thirty. They make more in base salary than a straight firefighter but they are always away.

Industrial really is not for everyone. I'm not trying to say that the guys in the city or military have it easier but I guarantee that we have way more people wash out than the other two. We get guys who have watched Hellfighters or IMAX Fires of Kuwait and think they'll be Johnny Badass and come and do it for a while. Then they whine and complain the first time we send them about 300 km into the bush for a month to work 16 hour days! They came in thinking it was glory and really it's alot of mud, ice, snow, frostbite, coffee, etc.

I got lucky starting when I did and working for who I did, it made all the difference compared to guys now, I gained alot of valuable experience in a very short amount of time (Probably due to those 120 hour weeks!) and progressed.

If you want more info then PM me.

 

[Michael OLeary]

300 km into the bush for a month to work 16 hour days! They came in thinking it was glory and really it's alot of mud, ice, snow, frostbite, coffee, etc.

So, it's like Infantry Phase II all over again .... but with coffee?