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Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave

Baden  Guy said:
OK now I finally see the light ! It's a package deal. Foreign policy, defence policy, Canada's place on the international stage;  boy that definitely didn't come from "The New Government" caucus.
...

Bingo!  Stephen Harper = Louis St. Laurent - in a whole lot of ways, I think.

Although, like St. Laurent, a natural, classcal liberal (read conservative if you are an ill-educated media type), Harper is a big spender because he understands that Canadians are unwilling to deny themselves much of anything available to their richer, more entrepreneurial, much more liberal and harder working American cousins.  (The real social programme revolution took place in 1951/52 (when St. Laurent was PM) when the Constitution was amended to allow the federal government to pass the Old Age Security Act.  That was, largely, in response to social initiatives in the USA which began in the mid '30s.  The rest, all the Trudeau era BS, was just adornments.)
 
maybe it's about time we painted a picture of Jacko's world...

Exactly! demonstrate (somehow) what new age appeasement actually leads to.

What happens next? - you can't sell a prediction.
The left have predicted military failure from day one since 9-11.
(Perhaps because the use of the military is a failure.)

I for one, am sick of hearing what some rageing grannies would do for
a foreign policy.  

I think "peacekeeping" was something that evolved itself from
"you don't want to tangle with Canada too"
to
"let's hold hands and hope for peace"

Peacekeeping was a good thing to do, but the left changed the public perception
of what it meant, from legitimate military deployment to uniformed beurocracy.
In short the word "peacekeeping" has changed to something quite absurd.

The words good and evil have now been dappled in shades of grey.
When GW Bush uses the term "evildoers" it resonates in the US.
Here, we get our knickers in a twist. How dare we call the Taliban evil?
AQ is simply a different form of cultural expression.

Sorry for the rant - I'm sick of it.


 
What happens next? - you can't sell a prediction.

I beg to differ- ever hear of Global Warming?

Good luck getting a large group of people to hear something they don't want to hear.
 
I beg to differ- ever hear of Global Warming?

I stand corrected sir!  ;D

Maybe, The informed can't sell a prediction, will fly?
 
From Sen. Kenny:

Well, at least those Liberal governments were honest - they simply didn't attach that big a priority to the military. This government, on the other hand, is hypocritical. It pretends to be strengthening our defences, but what it is really doing is buying just enough equipment to fill the most alarming holes and to get Canada through its commitment in Afghanistan [emphasis added].

Meanwhile, that Defence Capabilities Plan that this government insisted the Department of Defence come up with to outline Canada's military needs for the next quarter-century seems to have gone into hiding. It was supposed to be forthcoming last spring, then last fall, but if it exists, it's being hidden away somewhere.

Why? Because if an honest plan were brought forward, it would demonstrate clearly that the government is going to have to spend many billions more on defence than its plans call for now. Otherwise the Canadian Forces are going to deteriorate once again. There will be huge holes in the navy, the air force, and in the army as well.

Bingo, again.

Remember the howls of outrage from the press when, just a few months ago, the government leaked a very preliminary draft of a potential defence policy which called for the defence budget to increase to $37 Billion by 2025?  I commented, here that the proposed (test fired?) increase amounted to disarmament by stealth.  I also suggested that Sen. Kenny's recommendation ($35 Billion by 2012) is both politically and administratively silly.

What makes sense?

Steady, large,real (after defence related inflation) increases, beginning next year, of  5% then 7.5% then 10% and, briefly, even at 12.5% and so on until, by 2025 we are spending something in the range of $40-45 Billion per year, year after year - which should be 2 to 2.25% of a GDP by then approaching $2 Trillion.  That means, if – as we must – we front load a lot of the big expenditures, we might get to somewhere in the $25-30 Billion range by 2015 – not Sen. Kenny's $35 Billion.

In fairness: the numbers, the numbers whichCanada must spend are huge and Canadians are not going to like them - not at all.  Kudos to Sen. Kenny for sounding the alarm.
 
New report urges overhaul of Afghan mission
Updated Mon. May. 28 2007 8:35 AM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

A new report by the Senlis Council is calling into question Canada's mission and objectives in Afghanistan, including its stance on development, aid and poppy eradication.

The report, which will be released on Monday, states the federal government needs to construct a better plan for the future of the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan.

The council maintains the military is doing a remarkable job in very difficult circumstances but it is calling on the government to rethink its stance on a number of initiatives in Afghanistan.

"What we are releasing today at the press conference is a call for a complete overhaul of the government's policies on development and counter narcotics," Norine MacDonald, a spokesperson from the Senlis Council, told CTV's Canada AM from Ottawa on Monday.

In particular, the council opposes Canada's support of the U.S.-led policy of poppy eradication.

"Our concerns about the counter narcotics strategy in Kandahar province, where our military are fighting, is that Canada has really been silent on that and have let the United States take the lead," MacDonald said.

"Their policy is one of forced poppy crop eradication and they've pledged to go ahead with chemical spraying in Kandahar's agricultural areas in the next season."

MacDonald explained the decimation of poor farmer's crops has lead to anger against foreign military in Afghanistan.

The council recently surveyed 17,000 Afghan men in southern Afghanistan.

Fifty per cent of the men surveyed believed the Taliban were going to win the war while 80 per cent worried constantly about not being able to feed their families.

"Those are really bad numbers and something has got to be done," MacDonald said.

The council states Afghan farmers should be allowed to grow poppy crops for medicinal use.

"There is a global shortage and that would help us, help them, create a legal income and put them in a positive relationship with us to ensure our military are working in a positive environment," MacDonald said.

During the Nixon years, the U.S. led a successful initiative in Turkey and India to cultivate opium for heroine to be used for medicinal purposes.

"That's where they (U.S.) get their medicine now and we believe Canada should do the same in Kandahar and really turn this into a positive relationship with the Afghan farmers," MacDonald said.

The Senlis Council is also calling for a major overhaul of the federal government's development and aid strategies in the country.

"We're just not seeing the effects of it on the ground," MacDonald said.

"Kandahar is really full of extreme poverty and we're seeing starving children and starving elderly in camps on a daily basis."

The report calls for CIDA to be removed from its work in Kandahar and a special envoy to be put in place.

The document also says Canada's development and aid spending should be equivalent to its military spending in the country.

"At the moment we are spending 10 times more on the military spending than development and aid, and clearly we are not getting the job done," MacDonald said.

"We need a management paradigm, measures of success, we really need an overhaul and we need it soon."

The Senlis Council will appear before a House of Commons committee on Tuesday to discuss their findings.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070528/senlis_report_070528/20070528?hub=Canada

It seem's to me that the Senlis Council's perscription is to keep doing what we are doing with the military, but to also do more of all the non-military stuff.
 
More on the Senlis Council (some not what you might think)--a post at The Torch (I attended their "event" in Ottawa this morning):

The Senlis Council: "Canada in Afghanistan"
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/05/senlis-council-canada-in-afghanistan.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
Senlis update:  Afstan: Senlis Council, Canada and the media
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/05/afstan-senlis-council-canada-and-media.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
CIDA, Afstan and the Senlis Council
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/05/cida-afstan-and-senlis-council.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
A post at The Torch:

Liberals do support the troops
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/liberals-do-support-troops.html

Mark
Ottawa
 
Glad to see that Denis Coderre says that we've won the war.  When's the victory parade?
 
Canadian Forces “caught by surprise” in Afghan war
CanWest News Service
Published: Wednesday, June 06, 2007

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - The Canadian Forces have been “caught by surprise” in recent months by a dramatic shift in the Afghanistan war that has seen the Taliban melt into the civilian population and spread into a far wider area, a top officer admitted Wednesday.

The new enemy activity has prompted the kind of rapid “sea change” in tactics that used to be unheard of in the Forces, said Col. Mike Cessford, second in command of the Canadian mission here.

Last year, troops were engaged in fierce fighting with large clumps of insurgents in a single, 20-square-kilometre area west of Kandahar, he said.

Now the Taliban have dispersed among the province’s civilians and into a “multiplicity” of different districts, Cessford said in a frank assessment of the operation.

“This mission is evolving dynamically and dramatically,” he told a group of Canadian journalists. “We trained hard for a mission that did not materialize … Here you change on a dime and you have to change on a dime.”

Nevertheless, Cessford said he is convinced NATO forces in southern Afghanistan have taken the initiative from the Taliban, attacking them before they could launch an expected spring offensive.

The security situation is improving for ordinary Afghans, and more reconstruction is being carried out, he said.

The transformation of the conflict into a guerrilla war where combatants are one with the civilians has meant a major curb on Canadian firepower, however.

Soldiers have been able to rely much less on artillery and air strikes, and are erring on the side of caution if they are not absolutely sure a potential target is a Taliban militant, said Cessford.

He also said that he felt Canadians will have a long and enduring presence in Afghanistan after the military force has left. Asked if troops could be here for a decade, though, he suggested that might not be unlikely, given the length of time Canada has had forces in former hot spots such as Cyprus.
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story.html?id=6843ab79-e1ea-488c-85df-0413f4d54ab1&k=45178
 
A post at The Torch:

Afstan: Two very different military situations
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/afstan-two-very-different-military.html

The British seem to be trying to achieve this year what the CF appear to have achieved last year...

Mark
Ottawa

 
Nothing breeds success, like success...
 
About what one would expect from The Grauniad:

The west has to accept that there is no military solution

The honest way forward in Afghanistan is to understand the south is lost and refocus efforts on Kabul and the north

The Guardian, June 8, by Jonathan Steele in Kabul
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2098059,00.html
...
The deaths by ground fire and US air strikes have become so frequent that last month the upper house of Afghanistan's parliament did something it has never done before. It called on the Nato-led forces to cease taking offensive action against the Taliban and asked the Afghan government to talk to the insurgents, provided the Taliban accept the country's new constitution. It also asked for a timetable for the withdrawal of foreign troops. The upper house is not normally a radical body. More than half its members were appointed by Bush's friend, President Hamid Karzai. Its speaker is a moderate former mujahideen leader who was driven from power by the Taliban a decade ago. That men with this background should now be expressing doubts over Nato's tactics and even over its presence in Afghanistan sends a powerful signal...

In the Pashtun south, the Taliban's homeland, the west did little. Instead of pumping in aid while the defeated Taliban were still demoralised, the Taliban were given three years to recover. Now that Isaf has finally gone into the south, the complaint is that it is too aggressive. Isaf troops demolish houses, empty out villages, displace tens of thousands of people, and use indiscriminate firepower that kills innocent civilians. Isaf's task is complicated by the presence of over 10,000 US troops who are not under Nato command but operate in the same zones, killing more Afghans than Isaf, and giving all foreign forces a bad name since no one can understand the difference.

Making a priority of "force protection" - which means that soldiers on patrol or in convoy treat every Afghan as a potential enemy and fire on anything suspicious - has helped the Taliban to gain recruits. Before 9/11 the connection between the Taliban and al-Qaida was only at the leadership level, and tenuous at best. Now it is pervasive and at the grassroots. Young Afghans are strapping on suicide belts, a technique imported from Iraq - it was never used against the Soviet occupiers two decades ago, and shocks older Afghans as a perversion of their warrior nation's traditions. But it helps to make Isaf and US special forces even more jittery, feeding into the instinct to over-react.

Last autumn, British commanders tried to break out of excessive reliance on military force. They made a potentially precedent-setting deal with tribal leaders in the town of Musa Qala by agreeing to withdraw provided the Taliban did not move in. The deal was sabotaged by the Americans and, as on many earlier occasions, Tony Blair failed to stand up to the White House. He let the Musa Qala experiment fizzle out.

In Kabul, some western analysts with long experience of Afghanistan are in despair. They argue that Isaf should recognise the trap it is in. Western governments and their electorates will never provide enough troops to secure the south, but the reckless use of air-power to make up for the shortage of ground troops only loses more hearts and minds. The downward spiral of anger and alienation accelerates.

The only honest solution is to accept that the south is a lost cause as far as western military action is concerned. Isaf should refocus its effort and the available foreign aid money on Kabul and the north. Turn them into an example of how development and modernisation can be done gradually and sensitively and with a real long-term commitment, rather than spending millions on advice on "good governance" from overpaid consultants on short-term contracts. There is no danger that the Pashtun-based Taliban will capture Kabul and the north again. Isaf need not announce a pullout, but it should prepare the ground by redeploying its forces to garrisons in Kandahar and the provincial capitals in the south, and quietly abandoning its isolated outposts and the futile in-and-out patrolling of the hinterland.

Some diplomats argue that, while this may be what the west eventually does, there is still time to use a mix of military attacks in a few areas combined with discreet contacts with Taliban commanders through tribal leaders. These should aim for agreement on phased withdrawals by Isaf, and promises that security will be in the hands of Afghan police chosen by local people rather than sent in from outside. The Afghan army is seen as an adjunct of the occupiers and not welcomed [emphasis added].

Pashtun tribal elders reject Taliban ideology, which they see as obscurantist, regressive, and hostile to development. They had six years' experience of it after 1995, and know what it means. But the Taliban are successfully expanding their reach by exploiting national pride and hostility to foreign occupation and the corrupt practices of Kabul-appointed governors. Removing the occupation and having locally chosen police would allow the elders to reassert control.

A key precondition for a new approach in Afghanistan has to be an end to the west's simplistic "war on terror" rhetoric and its latest incarnation, Bush's Prague talk of "freedom versus extremism". Promising "victory" in Afghanistan only risks the perception of "defeat" when the reality eventually dawns that there is no military solution.

Indeed no military solution by ISAF alone.  It will in the end be up to the Afghan army and police.  But let's fight enough to give them time to try and basically do it themselves.  With some air support, if requested. ;)

Mark
Ottawa



 
Afstan is all about winning hearts and minds.  Ours. Two good summaries of the situation (one in the Globe and Mail, with only a couple of cheap shots) make a similar key point:

1) Globe and Mail:

As Kandahar rebuilds, the clock is ticking
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070611.wafghan11/BNStory/National/

The goal of the Taliban is much simpler. They don't have to defeat the ISAF forces. They simply have to inflict enough casualties so that political support for the mission among ISAF nations erodes. The Taliban think in terms of decades. The coalition countries think in terms of months. And the clock is ticking.

Right now, it's a race - between the coalition's ability to build the capacity for Afghanistan to stand on its own two feet and the ability of the Taliban to influence Canadian public and political opinion with attacks designed to inflict casualties among Canadians. The finish line is 2009...

2) Ottawa Citizen:
State of a nation
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=9009b503-9241-49fe-b3ed-1fe57834766d

The Taliban know that western public opinion reacts severely to casualties, so the act of killing becomes more important than taking ground in the classic military manner. They are aware of the massive media coverage that is generated in Canada by every fatal casualty, and the subsequent downturn in public support for the mission...

...Success will not come overnight. It will take patience, understanding, and continued dedication to the mission, but there is much to build on.

Ironically, the final outcome depends upon what happens a half a world away, in the capitals of the 37 nations that are in Afghanistan to help that country back onto its feet. Precipitous decisions to pull out would have a devastating effect.

Canada, with its own looming decision point, is in a position to set a good or bad example for others to follow.

With things slowly but surely moving in the right direction, it would be disastrous if Afghans were abandoned at such a critical stage. A decision to "cut and run" would mean writing off the human and material cost of our nation's deep investment in Afghanistan at a time when our return on that investment is increasingly evident, and a successful outcome increasingly within reach.

Gen. (Ret'd) Paul D. Manson is president of the Conference of Defence Associations Institute. He was chief of the defence staff from 1986 to 1989.

Mark
Ottawa
 
They have time on their side...they just have to wait for us to get tired (or bankrupt) of spending billions of  dollars and Canadian or other ISAF lives on a mission that many Canadians are having difficulty supporting. Hopefully we can change conditions of life sufficiently for ordinary folks so that they glimpse what they can have without the Taliban and the Drug Lords...a big task.
 
IN HOC SIGNO: Then there's this:

Big majority wants Afghan mission to end on schedule in 2009: poll
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national/story.html?id=84a40006-13e3-4853-9793-f11055ffc742&k=91670

OTTAWA (CP) - The vast majority of Canadians want this country's military mission in Afghanistan to end as scheduled in 2009, according to a new poll.

The survey by Decima Research, released Monday to The Canadian Press, found that two-thirds of respondents want Canadian troops to come home when the current mandate from Parliament expires in February 2009.

Only 26 per cent of respondents believed the military mission should be extended "if that is necessary to complete our goals there."

The results of the poll, conducted May 31 to June 4, were released as Prime Minister Stephen Harper discussed an extension to the mission with his Dutch counterpart in Ottawa...

Jan Peter Balkenende, prime minister of the Netherlands, faces a similar debate, with Dutch troops mandated to work alongside the Canadians only until August 2008.

After meeting with Harper, Balkenende told a news conference on Parliament Hill that he will inform NATO by this August what his country intends to do.

"We will of course consult closely with Canada on this," said the Dutch prime minister. "That was one of the reasons for my visit today."

Neither Balkenende nor Harper tipped his hand on an extension, but Harper said the two leaders discussed the matter at length and share "similar considerations, a similar evaluation of the situation, similar concerns."

"I obviously will not pressure the prime minister in public," said Harper. "But just to say that we have valued tremendously the co-operation with the Netherlands in southern Afghanistan."

Harper's hints appear to run counter to a Canadian sentiment that Decima CEO Bruce Anderson said runs strongly across every region, both genders, all age and income groups and among both urban and rural residents.

"Even Conservative party voters are at best split," said the pollster, noting self-identified Conservative supporters in the survey were divided 48-47 in favour of extending the mission...

Conservative voters, said Anderson, were the only subgroup in the poll in which a majority, 52 per cent, felt the number of casualties has been acceptable.

Yet Anderson says the broad sentiment does not appear to be for an immediate military withdrawal, and Canadian reticence about an extension could change as the deadline approaches and the consequences of leaving become clearer.

The Dutch people face that decision this summer, but Canadians can delay it for several more months.

"Right now that deadline seems like it's some distance off into the future," said Anderson.

"What people are really saying, I think, through this poll is we're uncomfortable with a completely open-ended commitment."..

Late this morning the Dutch and Canadian PMs met the press after their meeting and both spoke about Afstan, the Dutch PM rather more fully than ours.  The media then had two questions alternately from Dutch and Canadian reporters.  Both the Dutch questions were about Afstan; both the Canadian were about the political fallout surrounding the "Atlantic Accord".

This is not I fear, as Lucien Bouchard famously said, a real country.  It is a political, media, and grievance interest group entertainment show.

Hurl.

Mark
Ottawa

 
Two posts at The Torch:

Afstan tipping point: Québec?
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/afstan-tipping-point-qubec.html

Yet another agenda-driven Globe and Mail headline
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/06/yet-another-agenda-driven-globe-and.html

Mark
Ottawa

 
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