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Afghan Detainee Mega Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter rceme_rat
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I see the human rights groups have expanded their sights....It worked in Canada, let's go after Israel

Report: Israel's Shin Bet uses torture illegally in interrogations
Two human rights groups say Palestinian prisoners routinely abused, though Israel dismisses the charges.
By Arthur Bright | csmonitor.com May 07, 2007 at 11:40 am EDT
Article Link

The Israeli security service agency Shin Bet routinely violates international law by torturing Palestinian prisoners, according to a new report released by two Israeli human rights organizations.

B'Tselem and HaMoked, both of which work to fight violations of Palestinians' human rights, write in their joint report that their findings came from interviews with 73 West Bank Palestinians who were arrested and interrogated by Shin Bet, also known as the Israel Security Agency (ISA), between July 2005 and January 2006. The report, published Sunday, found that Shin Bet's interrogations, which averaged 35 days long for the 73 Palestinians interviewed, routinely included physical and mental abuse that approached torture, as well as outright torture in many cases.

...the ISA routinely operates an interrogation system involving the psychological and physical ill-treatment of interrogees. This system includes several key aspects: The isolation of the interrogee from the outside world; the use of conditions of incarceration as a means to apply psychological pressure and to debilitate the interrogee physically; the shackling of the interrogee in painful positions; the humiliation of the interrogee; and the use of threats. In a minority of cases, probably those defined as "ticking bombs," the ISA also uses violent interrogation methods that constitute full-scale torture (beating, the tightening of handcuffs, the sudden pulling of the body, the bending of the back, and so on).

Moreover, many ISA interrogees arrive at the interrogation facility after having been "softened up" by the soldiers who execute the arrest and who hold the detainees pending their delivery to the ISA. This "softening up" includes beating, painful shackling, humiliation, and the denial of vital needs. Although we do not have evidence to show that the motives of these soldiers or their commanders is to "soften up" the detainees ahead of their interrogation, this is the outcome in practical terms.

Haaretz writes that the Israeli Supreme Court declared an absolute ban on torture in 1999, though the ruling allowed methods of creating pressure or discomfort, so long as such methods were not meant to break morale. The ruling did allow torture, however, in cases defined as "ticking bombs," where interrogation might prevent an imminent terrorist attack. In such cases, the court ruled that interrogators would not face discipline.
More on link
 
Torture, wasn't that what we did in basic, no sleep, forced marches, pushups pushups, sleeping in the rain, getting yelled at etc etc
Me thinks thou protest too much.
If there actually is torture thats one thing but the left needs to get with the program.
 
Silly me--I thought "occupying" Afstan was a Bad Thing:
http://www.rbcinvest.theglobeandmail.com//servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/LAC/20070508/DETAINEES08/International/international/internationalAsiaHeadline/3/3/6/

Liberals opened Question Period yesterday with accusations that the Conservative government had covered up the extent of the problem.

And later, outside the Commons, Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre said he believed that all people captured by NATO troops fighting in Afghanistan - and even those captured by the Afghans themselves [emphasis added] - should be protected in the same way as those the Canadians take into custody.

I suspect the Afghans may be taking a dim view of Denis the Thug.

Mark
Ottawa
 
The problem of course is that the left will not allow mere facts to get in the way of a good blood letting. Since they signed the bloody agreement it's not surprising they were well prepared to point out it's weaknesses.
 
alfie said:
Torture, wasn't that what we did in basic, no sleep, forced marches, pushups pushups, sleeping in the rain, getting yelled at etc etc
Me thinks thou protest too much.
If there actually is torture that's one thing but the left needs to get with the program.

There was actually a call a few years ago, right after the breaking story of Abu Ghraib, to end all "torturous" activities, many of which were included in most basic training regimens in the world.
 
not to take away from this thread in any way. But what makes the liberal critic qualifed to be asking/accusing these kinds of things?
 
Politicians, especially those that are given the job as a ministry critic, don't need any qualifications.
 
http://www.winnipegsun.com/News/World/2007/05/12/4174033-sun.html

Reproduced under the 'Fair Dealing Act'

No signs of tortureCages, ceiling chains not found as officials look to disprove torture claims
By SCOTT TAYLOR
 
KANDAHAR -- For weeks now members of the Canadian media have been portraying the Afghan National Directorate of Security as "evil torturers" and their detainee prison as a "living hell."

Anxious to set the record straight and to improve their tarnished image, the NDS provided me with a three-hour unrestricted access to their infamous detention centre in Kandahar.

"Many of the stories broadcast in Canada are lies or fabrications," explained Col. Noor Mohammed Balak Karzai, the deputy director of the NDS in Kandahar. "When I saw these reports I was very angry, and it made the people of Kandahar very angry as well."
One reason why the NDS took such unprecedented measures to open their facilities was their desire to maintain good relations with the Canadian battle group.

"The Canadian (soldiers) have a better attitude than some other NATO troops -- including the Americans -- and people will pass along advance warnings to the NDS if they suspect Canadians are being targeted," Karzai explained. "That is why we are angry that the Canadian media did not observe the reality before publishing their negative stories."
 
To get to the detention centre we were met by an NDS plainclothes escort at the governor's guesthouse and driven to an unmarked prison just a few blocks away. Although there is a series of road barricades to negotiate before the main vehicle gate, the NDS detention centre is surprisingly void of heavy security. There are no guard towers or bunkers, just a walled compound topped with razor wire, not unlike any other government building in Afghanistan.

While discrete in appearance the detention centre's location is certainly no secret. The families of suspected Taliban detainees are allowed to visit prisoners and bring them food once a week and a number of these visitors were present when we arrived.
The officials explained they can hold suspects for 72 hours. If they believe that the case warrants further investigation, the suspect can remain for 15 days. Any longer requires a court order extension.

"If we (the NDS) have made the arrest, the processing procedure is usually quite quick as we make sure we have sufficient evidence prior to apprehending them," Karzai said.
"The delays occur when we receive prisoners from other agencies such as NATO troops, and we have to begin an investigation with very little information."

The tour began in the basement cells where eight shackled men sat or reclined on their dirty bedding. This was the "general population" area of the prison and while it was evident that the facility had been recently cleaned, there was no lingering odour of human excrement or filth (which would have been difficult to mask just for our tour).
Some prisoners seemed amused at the intrusion while others stared blankly at us as we filmed them. On the other side of the basement were the solitary cells. Narrow enough for each occupant to barely lie down on his grubby mat, all inmates in this section were shackled at the feet and kept behind locked doors.

All of the doors were opened for us to inspect the conditions and to examine the state of the prisoners. In all cells the prisoner had reading material -- usually the Koran, plus water bottles and a few personal items. While some solitary cells were kept completely darkened, we were allowed to light these in order to view and photograph them.
Nowhere in the entire complex of cells was there any sign of the cages in which detainees were allegedly confined. Following the prisoner inspection we were shown the guard's quarters on the second floor. Here the NDS security force resides eight to a room, sleeping on bunk beds lined with bedding equally filthy to that of the prisoners.

The interrogation room was a spartan office with a couple of desks -- like any police station interview room, only with more battered furniture. While the NDS denied that they used beatings and torture to extract confessions and intelligence from suspects, they did not divulge what methods they did use to coerce prisoners.
The one prisoner present in the interrogation room during our visit was a suspect in a kidnapping case. As the night watchman at a school where the kidnap victim was held, the prisoner was believed to be implicated. Through an interpreter he told us that his family was aware of his situation and had visited him.

Not evident was the alleged ceiling chains from which prisoners claim to have been suspended during interrogations. The cracked plaster ceiling, in fact, looked barely capable of supporting the weight of the flimsy light fixture, never mind an adult male. Every office, cupboard and toilet facility was opened for inspection, including a visit to the roof and dining facility.

Huge chunks of a freshly slaughtered sheep were being boiled in an immense cauldron over an open fire. "The prisoners receive the same food as the guards and prison staff," Karzai explained. "They receive bread and tea for breakfast, meat and rice for lunch and dinner."
The yogurt for prisoner consumption was heavily watered down in a large pot. Admittedly, the food appeared to be unappetizingly thin fare, but prisoners' family and friends supplement this ration.

At the conclusion of the tour Karzai again pointed out the importance of maintaining good relations with Canadians. He said he would also be willing to negotiate a new arrangement whereby the Canadian military could routinely have access to the facility in order to monitor the prisoners they hand over.

"The detention centre is not a nice place to be," admitted one senior NDS official. "It's not supposed to be. But we do not do those things which (Canadian) media have accused us of having done."
 
"The Canadian (soldiers) have a better attitude than some other NATO troops -- including the Americans -- and people will pass along advance warnings to the NDS if they suspect Canadians are being targeted," Karzai explained. "That is why we are angry that the Canadian media did not observe the reality before publishing their negative stories."

This kinda says it all...
 
I expect full coverage on media as well as apologies from the Liberal and NDP Party regarding their previous behaviour.

I will now start holding my breath.


Matthew.  ::)


NO SIGNS OF TORTURE
Cages, ceiling chains not found as officials look to disprove torture claims
By SCOTT TAYLOR

KANDAHAR -- For weeks now members of the Canadian media have been portraying the Afghan National Directorate of Security as "evil torturers" and their detainee prison as a "living hell."

Anxious to set the record straight and to improve their tarnished image, the NDS provided me with a three-hour unrestricted access to their infamous detention centre in Kandahar.

"Many of the stories broadcast in Canada are lies or fabrications," explained Col. Noor Mohammed Balak Karzai, the deputy director of the NDS in Kandahar. "When I saw these reports I was very angry, and it made the people of Kandahar very angry as well."

One reason why the NDS took such unprecedented measures to open their facilities was their desire to maintain good relations with the Canadian battle group.

"The Canadian (soldiers) have a better attitude than some other NATO troops -- including the Americans -- and people will pass along advance warnings to the NDS if they suspect Canadians are being targeted," Karzai explained. "That is why we are angry that the Canadian media did not observe the reality before publishing their negative stories."

To get to the detention centre we were met by an NDS plainclothes escort at the governor's guesthouse and driven to an unmarked prison just a few blocks away. Although there is a series of road barricades to negotiate before the main vehicle gate, the NDS detention centre is surprisingly void of heavy security. There are no guard towers or bunkers, just a walled compound topped with razor wire, not unlike any other government building in Afghanistan.

While discrete in appearance the detention centre's location is certainly no secret. The families of suspected Taliban detainees are allowed to visit prisoners and bring them food once a week and a number of these visitors were present when we arrived.

The officials explained they can hold suspects for 72 hours. If they believe that the case warrants further investigation, the suspect can remain for 15 days. Any longer requires a court order extension.

"If we (the NDS) have made the arrest, the processing procedure is usually quite quick as we make sure we have sufficient evidence prior to apprehending them," Karzai said.

"The delays occur when we receive prisoners from other agencies such as NATO troops, and we have to begin an investigation with very little information."

The tour began in the basement cells where eight shackled men sat or reclined on their dirty bedding. This was the "general population" area of the prison and while it was evident that the facility had been recently cleaned, there was no lingering odour of human excrement or filth (which would have been difficult to mask just for our tour).

Some prisoners seemed amused at the intrusion while others stared blankly at us as we filmed them. On the other side of the basement were the solitary cells. Narrow enough for each occupant to barely lie down on his grubby mat, all inmates in this section were shackled at the feet and kept behind locked doors.

All of the doors were opened for us to inspect the conditions and to examine the state of the prisoners. In all cells the prisoner had reading material -- usually the Koran, plus water bottles and a few personal items. While some solitary cells were kept completely darkened, we were allowed to light these in order to view and photograph them.

Nowhere in the entire complex of cells was there any sign of the cages in which detainees were allegedly confined. Following the prisoner inspection we were shown the guard's quarters on the second floor. Here the NDS security force resides eight to a room, sleeping on bunk beds lined with bedding equally filthy to that of the prisoners.

The interrogation room was a spartan office with a couple of desks -- like any police station interview room, only with more battered furniture. While the NDS denied that they used beatings and torture to extract confessions and intelligence from suspects, they did not divulge what methods they did use to coerce prisoners.

The one prisoner present in the interrogation room during our visit was a suspect in a kidnapping case. As the night watchman at a school where the kidnap victim was held, the prisoner was believed to be implicated. Through an interpreter he told us that his family was aware of his situation and had visited him.

Not evident was the alleged ceiling chains from which prisoners claim to have been suspended during interrogations. The cracked plaster ceiling, in fact, looked barely capable of supporting the weight of the flimsy light fixture, never mind an adult male. Every office, cupboard and toilet facility was opened for inspection, including a visit to the roof and dining facility.

Huge chunks of a freshly slaughtered sheep were being boiled in an immense cauldron over an open fire. "The prisoners receive the same food as the guards and prison staff," Karzai explained. "They receive bread and tea for breakfast, meat and rice for lunch and dinner."

The yogurt for prisoner consumption was heavily watered down in a large pot. Admittedly, the food appeared to be unappetizingly thin fare, but prisoners' family and friends supplement this ration.

At the conclusion of the tour Karzai again pointed out the importance of maintaining good relations with Canadians. He said he would also be willing to negotiate a new arrangement whereby the Canadian military could routinely have access to the facility in order to monitor the prisoners they hand over.

"The detention centre is not a nice place to be," admitted one senior NDS official. "It's not supposed to be. But we do not do those things which (Canadian) media have accused us of having done."


Copyright 2007 - Toronto Sun....

 
Locking this one up.

Until I find the other various threads containing the same article to merge.

Vern
 
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/835090.html

"Many of the stories broadcast in Canada are lies or fabrications," said Col. Noor Mohammed Balak Karzai, deputy director of the directorate in Kandahar. "When I saw these reports I was very angry, and it made the people of Kandahar very angry as well."

One reason the directorate took such unprecedented measures to open its facilities was a desire to maintain good relations with the Canadian battle group in Kandahar.

"The Canadian (soldiers) have a better attitude than some other NATO troops, including the Americans, and people will pass along advance warnings to the NDS if they suspect Canadians are being targeted," said Karzai.
 
We can't have terrorists being tourtured by the very people that they murder and kill.
What we should do is take ALL prisoners and send them back to Canada.

THAT will really curb attacks on Canadian soldiers.
 
We can't have terrorists being tourtured by the very people that they murder and kill.
What we should do is take ALL prisoners and send them back to Canada.

THAT will really curb attacks on Canadian soldiers.

Flawed Design- I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic.  How, exactly, does Canada remove from a sovereign country (without the permission of it's government), prisoners?  Does that not basically tell the Afghan Govt that we have no confidence in it; that we believe they will never get their house in order. Once these prisoners hit Canadian soil, we put them where, exactly?

Besides, it has yet to be actually proven that torture has taken place- all that we have are a bunch of Taliban allegations to a Globe and Mail Reporter.
 
Brihard said:
Oh bugger, here we go...

The sad thing is the actual findings won't matter- the majority of opinions will be based on headlines, and the way they're written implies a lot that's not necessarily there.

We have a few guys who seem to have actively resisted being taken into custody. I suspect many people get the same sort of superficial cuts and bruises when taken into the drunk tank friday night after they try to resist arrest.

But of course, the Globe's gonna jump all over it...

Now if heads were being lopped off and putting the videos on youtube the msm's would have sympathy. 

 
I have no sympathy for the prisoners, they have no status in any system.  The only thing I'm concerned about is the decency and honour of the CF.  We should go out of our way to ensure that anyone who wants to surrender at riflepoint or otherwise is treated well.  In WW2 the Germans surrendered to us rather than the Brits, Yanks, or God forbid the Russians.
 
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