Active Shooter In NS. April 19 2020

[Humphrey Bogart]

Once again, according to the CBC, the CAF are the "bad" guys.

Why are they asking JRCC? Literally makes zero sense.

Also, I like how the NS RCMP are apparently told multiple times how to formally request this and they just continue to disregard it.

Sounds like a real boy scout operation they got going on in H Division.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Really? In this day and age. The person giving the order, the guy who fueled the helicopter and all the crew are definitely fired immediately. If shit goes sideways and someone get hurt or killed those people would be looking at jail time.

Yes. Really.

 

[brihard]

Why are they asking JRCC? Literally makes zero sense.

Also, I like how the NS RCMP are apparently told multiple times how to formally request this and they just continue to disregard it.

Sounds like a real boy scout operation they got going on in H Division.

Sounds like a request was made to JRCC the night of, and simply got a ‘no’. The rest of the interactions described look to have happened within a 28 minute period the next morning, resulted in a request beginning to flow the proper way, but then the matter ceased because the shooter picked and lost a fight with ERT and the dog guy at the gas station. Also note that in that time they were also working other angles for other aircraft… My bet is someone was told “find us a fucking bird” and they just worked whatever past of least resistance presented itself- hence the MNR helo.

 

[Booter]

JRCC is the path to air assets in the Canadian forces that the Mounties are familiar with from SAR. It’s the easy contact found in the policy manuals etc- any NCO who has coordinated a search and rescue would have used them- I am willing to bet if you created a circumstance where they were asked to contact the Air Force the first call would go through this channel.

More would be familiar with it than would be familiar with the EMO office and getting permission and requests the other way around. Which would be a very unusual process that wouldn’t be easy to find- the kind where every call you make you’re telling the person on the other end what they’re supposed to do because they have never dealt with it.

Knowing what I know about H and budgets- I bet dollars to donuts that the cost of leasing from that PAL company and getting an appropriate budget holder to sign off was part of the issue having leased enough helicopters and seen how that goes.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes. Really.

Let me try this on you:

Bring in an ARV and some HLVW wreckers on a low level phone call and let’s clear that trucker convoy out!

Still ok with the Military getting inserted into law emforcement without the proper Ministerial oversight?

 

[Kat Stevens]

Let me try this on you:

Bring in an ARV and some HLVW wreckers on a low level phone call and let’s clear that trucker convoy out!

Still ok with the Military getting inserted into law emforcement without the proper Ministerial oversight?

Yes, because some chucklehead running around with a gun killing people is exactly the same as a bunch of dummies with a bouncy castle

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Yes, because some chucklehead running around with a gun killing people is exactly the same as a bunch of dummies with a bouncy castle

Sigh.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Sigh.

Back at ya

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

JRCC is the path to air assets in the Canadian forces that the Mounties are familiar with from SAR. It’s the easy contact found in the policy manuals etc- any NCO who has coordinated a search and rescue would have used them- I am willing to bet if you created a circumstance where they were asked to contact the Air Force the first call would go through this channel.

More would be familiar with it than would be familiar with the EMO office and getting permission and requests the other way around. Which would be a very unusual process that wouldn’t be easy to find- the kind where every call you make you’re telling the person on the other end what they’re supposed to do because they have never dealt with it.

Knowing what I know about H and budgets- I bet dollars to donuts that the cost of leasing from that PAL company and getting an appropriate budget holder to sign off was part of the issue having leased enough helicopters and seen how that goes.

And that's fair. I'm also just pissed because as per, the CBC paints the CAF to look like a bunch of chuckle heads when it looks like everyone knew exactly what their job & authorities were.

Also sounds like the Province needs to buy the RCMP an additional aircraft. Or they'll probably just send more social assistance cheques to Cape Breton, as is tradition.

 

[RedFive]

It took a massive pile of work to purchase a single H145 helicopter for RCMP Air Services Lower Mainland. It has a hoist, IR, spot light and is absolutely the kind of helicopter they needed for this. It can apparently carry an ERT assaulter team and they have practiced insertions and extractions. It shares its time with one of the older AS350's which have significantly shorter legs and can only carry the pilot and tactical flight officer (with significant weight restrictions for those jobs).

Again going back to the theme of what I've been saying in this thread and elsewhere about how the RCMP would start doing business if I was Commissioner, Air Services would be something that the RCMP does its own way, and the bill can be sent to the Province whether they like it or not. Don't want to pay for a second helicopter despite the obvious safety and tactical considerations? Too bad, here's the bill. Don't like it? Hire somebody else to police your province.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

It took a massive pile of work to purchase a single H145 helicopter for RCMP Air Services Lower Mainland. It has a hoist, IR, spot light and is absolutely the kind of helicopter they needed for this. It can apparently carry an ERT assaulter team and they have practiced insertions and extractions. It shares its time with one of the older AS350's which have significantly shorter legs and can only carry the pilot and tactical flight officer (with significant weight restrictions for those jobs).

Again going back to the theme of what I've been saying in this thread and elsewhere about how the RCMP would start doing business if I was Commissioner, Air Services would be something that the RCMP does its own way, and the bill can be sent to the Province whether they like it or not. Don't want to pay for a second helicopter despite the obvious safety and tactical considerations? Too bad, here's the bill. Don't like it? Hire somebody else to police your province.

Canada is huge and the RCMP has an immense territory to cover.

We've seen the lack of dedicated aviation assets rear their head a # of times now. The manhunt in Manitoba being another example where cumbersome agreements with contracted air were required.

Sounds like the RCMP needs a couple of their own dedicated airbases with A/C always available. I would envision it working similarly but on much smaller scale to Fireforce Operations, like those conducted in Africa, where distances are large and infrastructure is poor:



Provinces should def be billed for the use as well.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Back at ya

Tell you what:

You write Mr Trudeau a letter and ask him to put down his very important file of harassing legal gun owners for ten minutes and change the NDA so the RCMP can get whatever they want from the CAF/whenever they want on a phone call.

Better?

 

[Kat Stevens]

I can’t do that my letter would be postmarked from Alberta and it would go straight in the garbage

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I can’t do that my letter would be postmarked from Alberta and it would go straight in the garbage

You are not wrong….

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I can’t do that my letter would be postmarked from Alberta and it would go straight in the garbage

 

[Booter]

And that's fair. I'm also just pissed because as per, the CBC paints the CAF to look like a bunch of chuckle heads when it looks like everyone knew exactly what their job & authorities were.

Also sounds like the Province needs to buy the RCMP an additional aircraft. Or they'll probably just send more social assistance cheques to Cape Breton, as is tradition.

Organizationally we have less aircraft this year than we had last year- our air logistics are going the wrong direction,

 

[kev994]

The manhunt in Manitoba being another example where cumbersome agreements with contracted air were required.

We sent a herc to that and the RCMP could not comprehend that the entire technology was just looking out the window with eyeballs. It’s designed for finding someone who wants to be found.

 

[kev994]

. (NB. the yellow Griffon’s do have FLIR I understand, but that’s because they’re a Griffon, and we’re allocated some of the FLIRs originally procured for the Green Griffon fleet.)

I’m pretty sure they do not. They do have a spotlight.

 

[OldSolduer]

I can’t do that my letter would be postmarked from Alberta and it would go straight in the garbage

Actually email him

 

[kev994]

; I’m not even sure if they have AIS let alone an EOIR turret.

they do not. I wrote an SOCD on the EO/IR in 2009, so I assume it’s making its way through the Div.