Active Shooter In NS. April 19 2020

[Eye In The Sky]

There were several post-incident media reports that his violent and threatening behaviour and his cache of illegal weapons went unaddressed by police.

That's probably similar to the "info" I'd read back post-April 2020...just media reports. Something along the line of "a few people told police some things and they didn't arrest him". Back then I was thinking "but could they have?"...

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

That's probably similar to the "info" I'd read back post-April 2020...just media reports. Something along the line of "a few people told police some things and they didn't arrest him". Back then I was thinking "but could they have?"...

"Harassing a guy that didn't do anything, those damn coppers....."

 

[Furniture]

"Harassing a guy that didn't do anything, those damn coppers....."

This goes back to my point about things needing to be completely open and honest. If the RCMP received complaints about him two years before the attack, that is the stuff that needs to come out.

Even if at the time the complaints weren't enough to justify a search of his home, any recorded complaints need to brought into the public sphere to be discussed.

 

[RedFive]

This goes back to my point about things needing to be completely open and honest. If the RCMP received complaints about him two years before the attack, that is the stuff that needs to come out.

Even if at the time the complaints weren't enough to justify a search of his home, any recorded complaints need to brought into the public sphere to be discussed.

With absolutely no inside information as to the circumstances in this case, the (somewhat) experienced cop in me asks "how many of the people have crawled out of the woodwork to claim they told Police about this guy who, when they did so at the time (if they did at all and aren't just trying to get their 15), were offered the opportunity to go on the record and provide a statement and subsequently refused?"

If I had a dime for every "concerned citizen" who has approached me in the course of my duties who expresses some concern or another for the neighbour or "that house down the road" who, when provided the opportunity to formally file a complaint and provide a statement, refuses outright....

We don't extend privilege (confidentiality) to every Tom, Dick or Harry who rocks up with a complaint. It makes investigative work and subsequent prosecution nigh impossible.

 

[Booter]

This goes back to my point about things needing to be completely open and honest. If the RCMP received complaints about him two years before the attack, that is the stuff that needs to come out.

Even if at the time the complaints weren't enough to justify a search of his home, any recorded complaints need to brought into the public sphere to be discussed.

There’s no reason to believe any occurrences like that won’t be included in this inquiry. It would be totally normal,

The issue is the other type of complaint- “why are you giving me a ticket? My neighbour has a bunch of Illegal guns- go do real police work”

“what are you talking about?”

“I’m not doing your job for you”

This guy then says he told police and they did nothing.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Two police officers responded to a 2013 weapons and domestic abuse complaint by Brenda Forbes against Gabriel Wortman. Police reviewed (or are still reviewing, probably) how it was handled. Police initially told CBC it had no record of any such complaint. They are also reviewing a policy under which some RCMP records are deleted after two years.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The Snr RCMP guy in Colchester county claims he had no idea the emergency notice system existed. He retired most rikki tik after this happened. Lots of examples of this garbage.

I don't think the RCMP are nefarious or malicious in this instant I think its sheer incompetence in their leadership and it likely cost the lives of constables in citizens. And instead of doing the right thing and hoisting in the areas for improvement while fixing this they are are devoted to "protection of the institution".

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I don't think the RCMP are nefarious or malicious in this instant I think its sheer incompetence in their leadership and it likely cost the lives of constables in citizens. And instead of doing the right thing and hoisting in the areas for improvement while fixing this they are are devoted to "protection of the institution".

Remind you of another institution a certain website might be about??

...and it certainly reminds me of the institution I just retired from.
But I guess any place where you work the f%$k out of your competent folk, while the floaters/box checkers slide, will eventually end up like this until things go south.

Ask the Russians about that.....

 

[Halifax Tar]

Remind you of another institution a certain website might be about??

...and it certainly reminds me of the institution I just retired from.
But I guess any place where you work the f%$k out of your competent folk, while the floaters/box checkers slide, will eventually end up like this until things go south.

Ask the Russians about that.....

Ya I lost two hunting buddy's to this asshole. I'm happy he's gone, I just wish he could have suffered some more.

As for the RCMP I think like most public institutions its become overly bureaucratic and needs a complete rework.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

There’s no reason to believe any occurrences like that won’t be included in this inquiry. It would be totally normal,

The issue is the other type of complaint- “why are you giving me a ticket? My neighbour has a bunch of Illegal guns- go do real police work”

“what are you talking about?”

“I’m not doing your job for you”

This guy then says he told police and they did nothing.

I think the issue is that people expect way too much in terms of investigations from Joe/Jill Constable.

I always read these media stories where journalists will write things like: "the police knew xxxx had guns and was a criminal " as if it was some sort of ABSOLUTE fact.

The reality is Constable xxxx probably showed up to a call, got told a bunch of random, seemingly unconnected information, that they jotted down in their notebook, asked a few questions and made a very quick judgement call that due to lack of any VERIFIABLE evidence or facts, that there was nothing more that could be done.

It's only through obscene amounts of hindsight bias and many hours of piecing together seemingly unrelated pieces of information that we now have a better idea of what happened.

I don't blame the Police at all for anything that happened prior to incident occurring. I do blame the Province for inadequately funding the Police to a level that significantly hampered their response times, coordination, etc.

 

[Booter]

Ya I lost two hunting buddy's to this asshole. I'm happy he's gone, I just wish he could have suffered some more.

As for the RCMP I think like most public institutions its become overly bureaucratic and needs a complete rework.

I think this is fair and accurate.

 

[lenaitch]

I think the issue is that people expect way too much in terms of investigations from Joe/Jill Constable.

I always read these media stories where journalists will write things like: "the police knew xxxx had guns and was a criminal " as if it was some sort of ABSOLUTE fact.

The reality is Constable xxxx probably showed up to a call, got told a bunch of random, seemingly unconnected information, that they jotted down in their notebook, asked a few questions and made a very quick judgement call that due to lack of any VERIFIABLE evidence or facts, that there was nothing more that could be done.

It's only through obscene amounts of hindsight bias and many hours of piecing together seemingly unrelated pieces of information that we now have a better idea of what happened.

I don't blame the Police at all for anything that happened prior to incident occurring. I do blame the Province for inadequately funding the Police to a level that significantly hampered their response times, coordination, etc.

Welcome to public inquiries.

 

[brihard]

I think the issue is that people expect way too much in terms of investigations from Joe/Jill Constable.

I always read these media stories where journalists will write things like: "the police knew xxxx had guns and was a criminal " as if it was some sort of ABSOLUTE fact.

The reality is Constable xxxx probably showed up to a call, got told a bunch of random, seemingly unconnected information, that they jotted down in their notebook, asked a few questions and made a very quick judgement call that due to lack of any VERIFIABLE evidence or facts, that there was nothing more that could be done.

It's only through obscene amounts of hindsight bias and many hours of piecing together seemingly unrelated pieces of information that we now have a better idea of what happened.

I don't blame the Police at all for anything that happened prior to incident occurring. I do blame the Province for inadequately funding the Police to a level that significantly hampered their response times, coordination, etc.

With no inside info about this event, what you’re describing feels like how things often go.

People not wanting to go on the record is a constant issue. Someone upthread mentioned retention- yes, files get purged after a certain amount of time depending on severity and status. I can’t tell you offhand the statutory underpinnings for that, but I know if has to do with the legal requirement to retain certain stuff for certain lengths of time.

I also totally believe someone running things in that local area was not familiar with the emergency alerts system. It hadn’t been used before, and anyone in a position of responsibility has an immense amount of things they need to stay up to speed on. I wouldn’t read too much into that member retiring. A lot of people got out after this massacre. Many of them broken. Nova Scotia RCMP is still recovering from this.

 

[brihard]

Ya I lost two hunting buddy's to this asshole. I'm happy he's gone, I just wish he could have suffered some more.

Sorry, couldn’t add this quote after I posted my previous reply. I’m very sorry for the loss of your friends. That friggin’ sucks.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The Snr RCMP guy in Colchester county claims he had no idea the emergency notice system existed.

The Provincial dept that runs 911 (or, ran 911 in Apr 2020; not sure if there has been changes) certainly knew that Emergency Notification System existed; they (at the time) were the sole Dept who had the keys to it.

I have, since April 2020, have asked many times why people aren't up in arms that 911 centers were receiving/dispatching calls, and did nothing. The blame always goes to the Mounties for 'not using the ENS'. They didn't have the ability to do anything above a 'request'. The senior Dept staff on shift that night...that person didn't employ the ENS...why is that not being asked?

Do I think the RCMP should have requested a ENS broadcast? I do.

Do I believe the Provincial authorities should have thought of that and asked the RCMP if they wanted to, before the above part? I do.

At the end of the day, the only person responsible for the deaths is the name of a POS I won't type out.

Sorry for the loss of your friends; RIP. They are not forgotten by us who didn't have the pleasure of knowing them.

 

[OldSolduer]

At the end of the day, the only person responsible for the deaths is the name of a POS I won't type out.

You're correct. That asshole is responsible. Period.

 

[lenaitch]

The Snr RCMP guy in Colchester county claims he had no idea the emergency notice system existed. He retired most rikki tik after this happened. Lots of examples of this garbage.

I don't think the RCMP are nefarious or malicious in this instant I think its sheer incompetence in their leadership and it likely cost the lives of constables in citizens. And instead of doing the right thing and hoisting in the areas for improvement while fixing this they are are devoted to "protection of the institution".

I know virtually nothing about how the RCMP is organized in contract provinces or their relationship with the host province or area municipalities, but if it is anything like Ontario, I'm not surprised. Commanders in charge of large amalgamated detachments or clusters of smaller ones, and responsible for implementing a never ending parade of programs, initiatives and partnerships from on high, as well as rubbing the tummies of municipalities, have left them completely divorced from day-to-day policing issues, the nuances of local communities, etc. 'They have people for that'. It's made even worse if they have progressed in rank via non-field service (I suppose, 'staff' roles in military parlance) and ended up in a field command because it's needed for their CV.

If; however, they were trained and qualified as an Incident Commander then that was a deficiency.

Information management that night must have been a nightmare, made worse if you are not familiar with the community and geography, from the call takers to senior commanders. The evolution of call taking/dispatching from local detachments to more centralized sites cost local, first-hand knowledge of areas and people. In terms of senior leadership, people that aspire to senior rank tend to be 'big picture' people because that's what the organization wants, but that is often not completely compatible when needing to process a tsunami of small picture details. You need a trusted detail person or two at your hip but not everybody has that, especially in the middle of the night. Layer on that any issues with actual communications - the spoken word/electronic type - either the technology or how it is used. I don't know if that was a problem here but communications deficiencies are often cited as a problem in events such as this.

 

[Booter]

there is a basically zero percent chance they are/were an incident commander.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If this is accurate it's pretty terrible.

Mass shooting victim’s family says mother died hours after Mounties told EHS she was dead​

Evidence that RCMP officers gave up on Nova Scotia mass shooting victim Heather O’Brien while she was still alive is being hidden from the public, says the late woman’s family.

The Facebook post also includes computer data from the Fitbit O’Brien was wearing on the day of her death. It shows her heart continued to beat several hours after she was pronounced dead by an RCMP officer.

An interview with another Mountie, parts of which were not included in the commission’s summary of what happened, backs up the family’s claim that their mother was left to die.

“So we... I say, we had to let her die, but you know, we had to let her just pass on,” stated Fahie. “We knew she … like to … I don’t think she was going to make it anyways. So, we got a blanket, covered her up and then we just went to the road and guarded.”

Her body was covered up but she allegedly lived for another 8 hours.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Hearing today that an RCMP officer had an opportunity to go after the killer on the highway but didn't for fear of their own safety. Pretty much dominated talk radio today.