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A400M Rollout

Haletown said:
The 400 will eventually fly . .  there is way too money & pride sunk into the program to have it fail.

Reminds me of Howard Hughes and the original Hercules cargo plane (the Spruce Goose as it was nick-named). Maybe they'll keep pressing on with the engine and software portion, but hold off on the airframe construction so they could at least attempt to save some face on it. The bird looks pretty, but it nothing more that a lawn ornament until she gets airborne.



I like the 44k loader by the way, looks purdy to me. (So I'm a machine geek)
 
Haletown said:
except if we had purchased the A400, we would still be waiting for delivery of the aircraft so ummmmmm, we wouldn't need them
Sure we would... using em on our Hercs & the antonov's we'd constantly be renting to look after our strategic airlift
 
When first presented in Canada around 2002/3 the then concept had indeed lots of support within the AF while timelines were always cited as too long, understandably so and we did not just hear that in Canada. Current delays don't help adding credibility to proposed timelines but fact is, much like the A380 the A400M will fly and succeed as a program, too much has been invested, it has full political support and, last but not least there is no viable alternative to it.
When my colleagues from PWC mock me about the engines I suck it up, not much else to do but to agree with them.
I recently went to Trenton and saw 2 C17 side by side, most impressive, no question and nothing compares to it. Reasons why this materialized so quick were a politico-military concurrence and a true off-the-shelf purchase.
The latter in particular made this easy for the OEM to offer slots. I only wish a similar straight-forward off-the-shelf process would be applied more often and we all could move on to other tasks rather than to watch certain projects spin in circles. 
 
As predicted . . . .  FADEC software is a real bitch

"Software development is proving the latest in a growing list of culprits responsible for the delay in the first flight of the Airbus Military A400M.

A senior Airbus executive now suggests a first flight in the latter half of 2009 – a near three year slip on when the aircraft was due to fly. Development and verification of the software for the full authority digital engine control system for the TP400-D6 engine is proving a harder challenge than originally anticipated.

The A400M appears to be suffering from a “conspiracy of optimism” – though it is far from the only military project to have been beset by such.

Getting the program back on track – albeit one with a credibly revised time frame – is of fundamental importance: the partner nations need to know when they will actually get the aircraft, and Airbus – and EADS and other companies involved – need to figure out the extent of the financial hit they may have yet to take.

And there also remains the small issue of European credibility in the military transport arena.

Picture Credit Airbus Military  "



http://tinyurl.com/5lxdos



 
And it fly´s! At least the TP400.
- http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3ae86bb804-58f4-4af9-993a-2ae796dce715

Regards,
ironduke57
 
For a sec I thought it was the test aircraft, then I read the link. Almost had a heart attack because of that. I still think they will get 1 flying then shelve the program.
 
Chapeski said:
I still think they will get 1 flying then shelve the program.

I doubt it. Theres too much money and political capital invested in it.
 
What use flogging a decomposing horse? (Via Spotlight on Military News and International Affairs)
http://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/spotlight/2009/01/09/spotnews_e.html

First A400M delivery in 2012 or later
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/4780/

22:31 GMT, January 9, 2009 Airbus Military and EADS have proposed a new programme approach for the A400M to the Launch Nations, through OCCAR, with the aim to find a way forward for this programme.

Airbus Military and EADS want to discuss the programme schedule along with changes to other areas of the contract including in particular certain technical characteristics of this first-class military aircraft.

Airbus Military suggests to resume series production only once adequate maturity is reached, based on flight test results. With this proposed new approach, the first delivery of the A400M would then occur around three years after first flight.

Airbus Military is still working with the engine consortium to firm up a date for the first flight.

Airbus Military and EADS will only be able to reliably determine all financial implications once a committed industrial plan, including the availability of systems, is fully stabilized and once OCCAR's position on the proposal is known.

This proposed new approach will not compromise the ultimate qualities and the exceptional characteristics of the airplane, with the most advanced logistic and tactical capabilities that will be delivered to the armed forces and will make A400M a unique airplane in its category.

UDPATE 2-EADS wants A400M contract change, adds delay
http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2009/01/09/2009-01-09T215133Z_01_L9151666_RTRIDST_0_EADS-UPDATE-2.html

Airbus parent EADS, seeking to bolster a troubled European military project, called Friday for a renegotiated contract with NATO nations and indicated the A400M airlifter would not be ready before 2012.

The plane -- designed to plug gaps in transport capacity in conflict zones like Afghanistan or to carry out humanitarian missions -- has been hit by delays in building its massive turbo-prop engines, sparking a public row with suppliers.

EADS has in turn been unable to meet its obligations to seven European NATO countries that ordered the plane in the largest single European arms purchase in 2003, placed through procurement agency OCCAR.

In a statement after markets closed Friday, EADS said it wanted to "discuss the programme schedule along with changes to other areas of the contract including in particular certain technical characteristics."

People familiar with the 20 billion-euro project have said it includes extensive customisation to meet national military priorities.

Mark
Ottawa
 
I guess they are going to concede the market to the C-17 - if the production line remains open.

http://secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/defense/2009/01/a-400m-vers-un.html

A 400M : vers un abandon du programme ?

C'est une rumeur persistante dans les milieux aéronautiques : la direction d'Airbus - en particulier l'entourage de Fabrice Brégier - ainsi qu'au moins un gouvernement engagé dans le programme d'avion de transport militaire A 400M auraient étudié l'hypothèse de son abandon.

La situation ne fait que se dégrader, comme nous le racontions ici en début de semaine. Mercredi, le PDG d'EADS Louis Gallois reconnaissait d'ailleurs que son groupe avait "totalement sous-estimé la complexité de l'avion", rapporte l'hébdomadaire Air et Cosmos...

La production de l'appareil, qui avait débutée en Espagne, a été gelée jusqu'à nouvel ordre. En clair, dans l'attente d'une solution technique qui permettrait de faire fonctionner le Fadec (régulateur numérique des turbopropulseurs)  ainsi que d''une solution commerciale, avec la renégociation du contrat (pas de pénalités et acceptation par les Etats de recevoir des avions avec des standards dégradés par rapport à la commande). Comme le dit un professionnel de ce secteur, très pessimiste sur l'avenir de ce projet, "dans tout fiasco, il faut regarder ce qu'il reste à dépenser, plutôt que ce qui a déjà été dépensé". Or, bien peu a été dépensé, ne serait-ce que par rapport au coût prévu du programme...
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

A 400M: Possible program cancelation?

It is a persistent rumor in the aviation community: the Airbus management - particularly Fabrice Brégier entourage - and at least a government part of A400M program have studied the option of scrubing the entire program.

The situation is worsening as we told here earlier this week. Wednesday, EADS CEO Louis Gallois also acknowledged that his group had "totally underestimated the complexity of the aircraft," reports the weekly "Air and Cosmos" ...

The production of the aircraft, which had begun in Spain, has been frozen until further notice. Clearly, waiting for a technical solution that would make the FADEC (digital turboprop) as well as a "business solution", with the renegotiation of the contract (no penalties and acceptance by States to receive airplanes with degraded standards in relation to the order). As a professional in this area, very pessimistic about the future of this project, "throughout fiasco, we must look at what is left to spend, rather than what has already been spent." However, little has been spent, if only in relation to the estimated cost of the program ...
 
Heh... sounds like conceeding to the C17 AND the Hercules
 
- I can't help but think that if EADS had a Russian component, the aircraft would be flying by now. 
 
From AW&ST, Jan. 19, p. 35, text subscriber only):

EADS Wants More Time and Money for A400M

Europe’s grand plan for a military airlifter is at risk of coming undone
Printed headline: Trials and Tribulations


EADS and Airbus are not only seeking years more time to complete A400M development, but additional financial support as well. Industry likely has one final opportunity to rescue the program before the patience of at least some partner nations is exhausted.

Senior Airbus executives warn that they are unwilling to carry on with the A400M as presently structured.

“We want to continue the program, but in a way that ensures success,” says CEO Tom Enders. “With the current contractual and organizational set-up we will not get there. This is a ‘mission impossible.’”

Tom Williams, Airbus executive vice president for programs, concurs: “We think it would be irresponsible to continue on the current track.” According to Williams, the program needs to be placed on a “realistic, solid footing in terms of schedule, organization and financially.”..

As yet, Airbus has no estimate of how much more could be required for the program. Williams says the company has “no idea on the cost to complete,” adding that the priority is to conclude the ongoing program assessment.

When launched, the A400M was trumpeted as a military development on a civil aircraft timescale, an approach that has proved fundamentally flawed.

There are obvious signs of exasperation among the seven core partners following EADS’s proposal that production delivery of the aircraft not begin until three years from first flight, which had been scheduled for November 2007. The latest proposed slippage, according to British Defense Minister John Hutton, is “unacceptable.”

“We cannot accept a three- or four-year delay in the delivery of those aircraft. That would impose an unnecessary, unacceptable strain on our air assets,” Hutton said in response to a question in Parliament. “We, along with all our partner nations, will have to consider very carefully what the right response to the problem is.”..
While the immediate focus for the delay is on the lack of a flightworthy full-authority digital engine control system for the prototype aircraft, [EADS CEO Louis] Gallois claims that EADS, its suppliers and the customers “completely underestimated the nature of the program . . . .We thought it was a flying truck.”

Development of the TP400-D6 turboprop engine, in general, has been a cause of delay, though questions about the aircraft’s propulsion have also served to mask other problem areas in the A400M program...

France was originally due to introduce the aircraft into service at the end of 2009, though now 2012 seems probable. Production ramp-up for the A400M is also likely to be slowed, leading to fewer early delivery slots. The RAF may have to wait until 2014-15.

The Defense Ministry is already in discussions over additional Boeing C-17 and Lockheed Martin C-130J transport aircraft as it considers how to address the capability gap left by the latest A400M lags. The RAF has six C-17s, and its fleet could now grow to nine or 10 [emphasis added]...

Plus:

A400M Problems Range Far Beyond Engines
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/A400M012309.xml&headline=A400M%20Problems%20Range%20Far%20Beyond%20Engines&channel=defense

PARIS – Airbus is facing much more than just contractual and schedule challenges in its A400M military airlifter program, as the aircraft may need massive re-engineering work to achieve its performance targets.

In turn, numerous issues threaten to make the A400M a less attractive and capable aircraft for its customers, industry sources tell Aviation Week. They come in addition to the well-publicized delays in the flight-test program that are linked to the lagging engine full authority digital engine control (FADEC) development (Aerospace DAILY, Nov. 25, 2008).

One key area of concern appears to be the A400M being overweight, which would negatively affect the aircraft’s payload and range capabilities. Sources close to the program say the aircraft is significantly heavy in its current development status. The first six units to be used in the flight-test program are 12 tons heavier than planned, those sources say. A weight savings campaign has identified a reduction potential of 7 tons. Early production aircraft will only incorporate reductions of 5 tons at the most, leaving payload below the 30-ton mark [emphasis added]...

Mark
Ottawa
 
Curious how the payload seems to have dropped --  Air Force Technology is still reporting the payload I remember them reporting 3 years ago.  And I remember at that time finding it noteworthy that it wasn't the 40 tonne limit being described in the press or the manufacturer's bumf.


A400M (Future Large Aircraft) Tactical Transport Aircraft, Europe

Dimensions
Length 43.8m
Height 14.6m
Wingspan 42.4m
Maximum Take-Off Weight 130t
Maximum Landing Weight 114t
Operating Empty Weight 70t
Maximum Payload 37t

Air Force Technology

Lowering expectations.
 
I'm still calling Spruce Goose on this one, 1 flight and that's it. Too bad though because it looks like a great aircraft on paper.
 
And Airbus had the temerity to want to sue Canada because we chose the Herc and the C17.
 
So they are saying 12 tons overweight but only a 7 ton drop in load capability.

Where's the other 5 tons gone ?
 
The original plane was to deliver 40 tonne payload or 2x C130. (Edit: Once upon a time, when Stryker was young, the C130 was supposed to lift a Stryker, even as Stryker grew towards 20 tons {or maybe that was tonnes})
The one that went onto the drawing board was already reduced to 37 tonne
12 tonnes of additional mass would reduce the 37 tonne payload to 25 tonnes.

They are now claiming that the design payload was 30 tonnes and they are 7 tonnes short.
In other words they are at 23 tonnes.

25 tonnes/tons
23 tonnes/tons

A bit of marketing, a lack of clarity on tons or tonnes, a bit of a rounding error and there is your difference

What is really remarkable is that the C130J can lift 16 tonnes.

The A-400 was supposed to lift twice that.  Now it is expected to lift 40% more.

Rheinmetall and the German Air Force are going to be a bit miffed.

A wide-ranging performance spectrum

The new Puma infantry fighting vehicle demonstrates once again Germany's paramount position in the domain of army technology. It sets the standard worldwide, as the following technical details make clear:


airportable in the future A400M transport plane;
rapid availability in the area of operations;
modular armour elements;
a single compartment for all occupants;
a compact, newly developed, extremely powerful engine;
highly effective mine protection;
a remote-controlled turret;
efficient armament for engaging all types of targets;
suitable as a platform for future applications;
interfaces for future systems (friend/foe identification, etc.)

Technical data
maximum design weight: 43 tons
weight (Protection Level A): 31.45 tons   ( 28.59 tonnes - edit )
weight (Protection Level C): 40.7 tons
crew: 9 (6+3);
maximum road speed: 70 kilometres per hour
power to weight ratio: 20 kW/t;
length: 7,330 mm
width: 3,430 mm
total height: 3,050 mm

Source



 
Kirkhill: Nice.  Now get a Canadian journalist to review the math.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Kirkhill said:
...
They are now claiming that the design payload was 30 tonnes and they are 7 tonnes short.
In other words they are at 23 tonnes.
...

Where did you get this from? I never anything in that direction. Sorry but without an reliable Source I say bullsh*t!

Regards,
ironduke57
 
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