Indeed. That’s exactly the kind of inflammatory and speculative crap that doesn’t help build understanding of what’s going on, and just throws fuel on the political fire. Claiming this links concretely to informant deaths is irresponsible. Nothing yet in the public domain suggests that.
A Deeply Fractured US
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"a draft dodging coward"
Sure.
or
Medical exemption for bone spurs.
An actual thing that will keep you, or get you medically released, from the military.
No matter your feelings on him, the determination was made by the US military and medical doctors, with evidence in front of them. You are neither, nor have you seen any evidence to make your own non medical amateur prognosis possible.
When did military service come into play for POTUS? Clinton, Obama and Biden all skipped the draft or never served.
I was in full agreement with your first para, but reading line one, para two proves your ignorance of the subject. You cannot prove your statement. Haterz gonna hate.
Sure.
or
Medical exemption for bone spurs.
An actual thing that will keep you, or get you medically released, from the military.
No matter your feelings on him, the determination was made by the US military and medical doctors, with evidence in front of them. You are neither, nor have you seen any evidence to make your own non medical amateur prognosis possible.
When did military service come into play for POTUS? Clinton, Obama and Biden all skipped the draft or never served.
I was in full agreement with your first para, but reading line one, para two proves your ignorance of the subject. You cannot prove your statement. Haterz gonna hate.
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Mills Bomb
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"a draft dodging coward"
Sure.
or
Medical exemption for bone spurs.
An actual thing that will keep you, or get you medically released, from the military.
No matter your feelings on him, the determination was made by the US military and medical doctors, with evidence in front of them. You are neither, nor have you seen any evidence to make your own non medical amateur prognosis possible.
When did military service come into play for POTUS? Clinton, Obama and Biden all skipped the draft or never served.
I was in full agreement with your first para, but reading line one, para two proves your ignorance of the subject. You cannot prove your statement. Haterz gonna hate.
On the subject of Vietnam, you may have forgotten that Donald Trump referred to John McCain, an actual Vietnam veteran and POW, as a "loser" and that he likes people who "weren't captured" and publicly insulted the mans service.
That's no conspiracy, it's available here for your viewing pleasure if you've forgotten, his rant on McCain starts around 5:10 in this video;
Presidential Candidate Donald Trump at the Family Leadership Summit
Donald Trump, a candidate for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, was interviewed about campaign issues and responded to questions from members of the audience. Topics included his faith and the economy. When speaking about a disagreement he had with Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Mr...
www.c-span.org
Personally, I have my doubts about Trump's "bone spurs" deferral but I don't hold any ill feelings towards those who dodged the Vietnam draft, Trump or anyone else. I am friends with Vietnam War veterans, and also those who came to Canada to avoid going. Many people had valid reasons not to go, and I believe it's up to the individual to decide if they are fit and willing to defend their nation and participate in its wars, particularly in conflicts half way around the world. What bothers me is openly insulting the service of the young American's and Canadian's who did decide to go in hopes of making the world a better place and had to experience that hell in the jungle.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you probably wouldn't enjoy civilians insulting your service in the CAF and saying you're a "loser" and making ignorant comments about war in general and POW's. None of us would want that, it's just straight up trash talk from very ignorant and uneducated people who know very little about military conflicts and war, we've all experienced these trash comments at some point from various groups of people.
You're right that none of these politicians have served, all the names you've mentioned are equally pathetic when it comes to prior service, you can also put our PM JT on your list of rich people who would never serve in the military. But only Trump has stooped so low as to publicly insult an American Vietnam War POW veteran's service on television for political gain.
You say you're not a conspiracist in some of your posts, but the statement in your signature to every post has some serious conspiracy vibes with what it implies. I'm no spelling or grammar official, but if you're going to keep spamming us with your bold font definition to the term "Conspiracy Theorist" over and over in every post you could at least ensure it's spelt correctly if we all need to keep enduring it.
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On the subject of Vietnam, you may have forgotten that Donald Trump referred to John McCain, an actual Vietnam veteran and POW, as a "loser" and that he likes people who "weren't captured" and publicly insulted the mans service.
That's no conspiracy, it's available here for your viewing pleasure if you've forgotten, his rant on McCain starts around 5:10 in this video;
Presidential Candidate Donald Trump at the Family Leadership Summit
Donald Trump, a candidate for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, was interviewed about campaign issues and responded to questions from members of the audience. Topics included his faith and the economy. When speaking about a disagreement he had with Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Mr...
Personally, I have my unproven doubts about Trump's "bone spurs" deferral but I don't hold any ill feelings towards those who dodged the Vietnam draft, Trump or anyone else. Many people had valid reasons not to go, and I believe it's up to the individual to decide if they are fit and willing to defend their nation. What bothers me is openly insulting the service of the young American and Canadian men who did go and had to experience that hell.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you probably wouldn't enjoy civilians insulting your service in the CAF and saying you're a "loser" and making ignorant comments about war in general and POW's. None of us would want that, it's just straight up trash comments.
You're right that none of these politicians have served, all the names you've mentioned are equally pathetic when it comes to prior service. But only Trump has stooped so low to insult an American Vietnam War POW veteran's service.
You say you're not a conspiracist in some of your posts, but the statement in your signature to every post has some serious conspiracy vibes with what it implies so it's a bit hard to see you as impartial. I'm no spelling or grammar official, but if you are going to keep spamming us with your bold font definition to the term "Conspiracy Theorist" over and over you could at least ensure it's spelt correctly.
Ran the whole liebral gambit there, didn't you sunshine
Strawman Trump/McCain - Nothing to do with the subject of his bone spurs.
Personal attacks - pathetic, immature and weak. Certainly, an indicator of your own obvious failabilities.
I guess you go on ignore, so I don't have to respond to your hate.
Eaglelord17
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It wasn’t made by the US military, it was a civilian doctor. Don’t you think its very odd that a man who was perfectly healthy with a large sports resume, with 4 previous deferments due to education, all of a sudden couldn’t go because of ‘temporary bone spurs’? Unfortunately that doctor is dead, but apparently his children say he forged it, which even though it is hearsay, adds to the other suspicious circumstances."a draft dodging coward"
Sure.
or
Medical exemption for bone spurs.
An actual thing that will keep you, or get you medically released, from the military.
No matter your feelings on him, the determination was made by the US military and medical doctors, with evidence in front of them. You are neither, nor have you seen any evidence to make your own non medical amateur prognosis possible.
When did military service come into play for POTUS? Clinton, Obama and Biden all skipped the draft or never served.
I was in full agreement with your first para, but reading line one, para two proves your ignorance of the subject. You cannot prove your statement. Haterz gonna hate.
He also pardoned a convicted war criminal and then moved to have him reinstated. He deserves absolutely respect on the military file. Complete lack of integrity.
Mills Bomb
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I must admit I'm very confused, this post is so painfully contradictory. One moment the Mr Jones is accusing me of being a "Lieberal" and then the next he's saying personal attacks are "pathetic, immature, and weak" while uploading, dare I say, immature memes- those things together in one post just don't make any sense. This is a member who has invested great efforts into the forum with 10,000+ posts and has put in hundreds of hours posting here and has spammed us with a conspiracy about conspiracy theorists in every one of those posts, while not even knowing how to spell "Conspiracy" in his own signature...All of this while not at all addressing the point I made that Trump called a Vietnam POW a "loser" for getting captured, which directly related to the topic of Trump and the Vietnam War.
Sadly, this seems typical of the hardcore Trump supporters, as soon as the questions get tough or we ask them to explain their views, they lash out and accuse people of being "Liberals" (Most here criticizing Trump aren't even Liberals) or some other nonsense while acting like complete "snowflakes" themselves. How is it even possible to discuss anything with people so deeply committed to the movement and so close minded to any other views or evidence?
This situation becomes even more bizarre in Canada. I hope the mods will allow Mr Jones post attacking me to stay on the forum, he's put me on the ignore list now and his outbursts are symbolic of the pro- Trump crowd, and while very strange it does relate to this thread and the pro / anti Trump saga.
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QV
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We will never be able to have an honest discussion in this thread if one side refuses or is incapable of seeing the hoaxes for what they were and are. That is the real insurrection. For example, when more than 50 former intelligence officials stated the Hunter Biden laptop was Russia disinformation, they did so for the purpose of affecting the election outcome. These people spread disinformation (Russia collusion etc etc) about one candidate/POTUS and buried actual scandal by their preferred candidate. If you still believe Trump said to drink bleach, called nazis fine people, or that Hunter's laptop was Russian disinformation, you've been fooled.
OldSolduer
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IKnowNothing
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The full quote
"A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?"
He continued.
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
Pretty sure most of us have moved on to watching the ongoing criminal investigation, and seeing what comes out of that.
On the broader subject of unrest in the US, FPOTUS has been on quite the streak of inflammatory social media posts over the last few days. I cannot see that things like this are going to bring the temperature down at all:
This, coupled with Republican politicians and commentators warning of “riots” if there is an indictment or arrest. Not that I think they’re incorrect, but there’s a decidedly instigating tone in how some of them are saying it.
I continue to take no position on the likelihood that Trump himself ends up criminally implicated in anything. I do fear that if it gets to that point, there will be politically motivated violence, and more people will get hurt. The criminal justice system needs to be allowed to function.
Brad Sallows
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Honest discussion requires precision. They suggested it could be; they did not state that it was. It's one of those myths that everyone knows that just isn't so.
The system has been playing favourites. It can't be expected to function without dissent and distrust which it has brought upon itself.
Colin Parkinson
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I suspect Trump lost a lot of veteran support with this comment, it was a very, very stupid comment, and one that only a person who has not really risked their life for something could make. I certainly did not agree with things McCain said or believed in, but never doubted his moral courage to survive such a thing as being a POW of the Vietnamese.On the subject of Vietnam, you may have forgotten that Donald Trump referred to John McCain, an actual Vietnam veteran and POW, as a "loser" and that he likes people who "weren't captured" and publicly insulted the mans service.
That's no conspiracy, it's available here for your viewing pleasure if you've forgotten, his rant on McCain starts around 5:10 in this video;
Presidential Candidate Donald Trump at the Family Leadership Summit
Donald Trump, a candidate for the 2016 Republican presidential nomination, was interviewed about campaign issues and responded to questions from members of the audience. Topics included his faith and the economy. When speaking about a disagreement he had with Senator John McCain (R-AZ), Mr...
Personally, I have my doubts about Trump's "bone spurs" deferral but I don't hold any ill feelings towards those who dodged the Vietnam draft, Trump or anyone else. I am friends with Vietnam War veterans, and also those who came to Canada to avoid going. Many people had valid reasons not to go, and I believe it's up to the individual to decide if they are fit and willing to defend their nation and participate in its wars, particularly in conflicts half way around the world. What bothers me is openly insulting the service of the young American's and Canadian's who did decide to go in hopes of making the world a better place and had to experience that hell in the jungle.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you probably wouldn't enjoy civilians insulting your service in the CAF and saying you're a "loser" and making ignorant comments about war in general and POW's. None of us would want that, it's just straight up trash talk from very ignorant and uneducated people who know very little about military conflicts and war, we've all experienced these trash comments at some point from various groups of people.
You're right that none of these politicians have served, all the names you've mentioned are equally pathetic when it comes to prior service, you can also put our PM JT on your list of rich people who would never serve in the military. But only Trump has stooped so low as to publicly insult an American Vietnam War POW veteran's service on television for political gain.
You say you're not a conspiracist in some of your posts, but the statement in your signature to every post has some serious conspiracy vibes with what it implies. I'm no spelling or grammar official, but if you're going to keep spamming us with your bold font definition to the term "Conspiracy Theorist" over and over in every post you could at least ensure it's spelt correctly if we all need to keep enduring it.
It’s also utterly irrelevant to the conduct and legitimacy of the 2020 election. Let’s not forget that FPOTUS &Co. attempted to challenge the results of that election in over 60 different court cases and didn’t have a single win on any issue that made a lick of difference. Judges appointed at both state and federal levels, by both Democrats and Republicans, consistently threw those cases out, and several cases have ongoing professional conduct proceedings going against the lawyers who brought the lawsuits, because they made claims that were plainly bullshit. Few issues in American history have been judicially settled as repeatedly and decisively as the legitimacy of the election of President Biden. Any attempts to dredge that back up by FPOTUS is just rabble-rousing a mob.
There is very much an air of panic about his social media posts in the past week, but the outlet for that panic could incite violence. In at least one case - the attack on FBI that resulted in a pursuit, shootout, and the suspect’s death - it already has.
Given that he’s back to calling for a overthrow of the legitimately elected president, Republican lawmakers who like voicing their support for him are going to have a choice to make.
QV
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We both know the drum was beat endlessly to set the narrative the laptop was fake. The same happened when they alleged the Donald colluded with Russia to win the election. Those involved included government officials active and retired, along with mass media cooperation.
The opposite was true in both cases.
TacticalTea
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Brad Sallows
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It - the letter suggesting Hunter's laptop was "Russian disinformation" - was very relevant. So was everything else about that laptop. A lot of people worked very hard to discredit it and to minimize public discussion. Post-election surveys revealed that some people would have voted differently if they knew more (or almost anything) about it. Elections depend on information; information suppression and misinformation pollute elections.
Brad Sallows
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That's ridiculous. Commentators at the time noted how much access ("unprecedented" was seen frequently in print) the special investigators were given to documents and people. "Widespread" is meaningless: Trump? Trump and his inner circle? Everyone in the administration? Everyone in it and beyond?.
The reason no definitive finding ("Russian collusion") was made is because there was nothing to find. The closest thing to "Russian collusion" was the involvement of a few Russians at the remote end of the opposition smear effort funded by Clinton's campaign.
IKnowNothing
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No, the reason that there was no definitive finding of "collusion" was that "collusion" wasn't defined under the law, so the investigation focused on whether or not what transpired passed the legal tests for criminal conspiracy.
"The Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election in sweeping and systematic fashion."
"The investigation... identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign. Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency... and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."
"In evaluating whether evidence about collective action of multiple individuals constituted a crime, we applied the framework of conspiracy law, not the concept of "collusion." ...But collusion is not a specific offense or theory of liability... in the United States Code, nor is it a term of art in federal criminal law. For those reasons, the Office's focus in analyzing questions of joint criminal liability was on conspiracy... we addressed the factual question whether members of the Trump Campaign "coordinat[ed]"—a term that appears in the appointment order—with Russian election interference activities. Like collusion, "coordination" does not have a settled definition in federal criminal law. We understood coordination to require an agreement—tacit or express—between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking actions that were informed by or responsive to the other's actions or interests. We applied the term coordination in that sense when stating... that the investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities."
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Like when Comey put out the letter around Clinton right before the election, that may have swayed enough people that Trump won?
That one had a detectable swing in a few of the states that went to Trump by a narrow margin, where Clinton had previously had a lead of a few percent.
I don't remember Republicans complaining about that one, but a lot of the mouthpieces have a notoriously selective memory where they contradict themselves.
On the flip side, Russian propaganda trolls have been very active all over FB, news comments sections, and I'm sure there are the occasional few on this message board. In that context why wouldn't the FBI's general warning to social media giants like Facebook around what kind of content might be getting pushed. But here is specifically what Zuckerberg said in 2020 and again in 2022 so you can judge it for yourself; he explains pretty clearly that they didn't actually sensor things, but they did flag things as propaganda and change how the algorithm pushes things so that trolls can deliberately try and spread it across social media.
I still am not really clear what new info has come to light, and given how Guilianni has been linked to Ukranians that are potentially Russian operatives, and generally has blown whatever credibility he had through his completely unfounded claims in the various election law suits that was bad enough for his bar license to be suspended and be sued for billions. Still seems pretty par for the course as a disinfo campaign specifically to spread disunity, and worked pretty well. Russia did feel safe enough to invade another country. I mean, the whole thing about how the computer was discovered still makes zero actual sense.
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