A Deeply Fractured US

[QV]

Still to early to tell, as usual. Personally, I don't believe biden's numbers any more than I believe he got 81 million votes. The most in history and more than Obama.

Right? My favorite part of all that was Trump is winning handedly and no networks declare the winner when they normally would have.... then at midnight key battleground states shut down counting everything goes dark... and voila in the morning, surprise! Biden somehow shot ahead to win it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

DNC uses political donations to pay Biden's legal fees in special counsel probe.​

Democratic donors paid more than $1M for Biden's legal bills for special counsel probe

Democratic donors covered more than $1 million in legal fees racked up by attorneys representing President Joe Biden in a yearlong special counsel probe into his handling of classified documents

abcnews.go.com

 

[brihard]

Right? My favorite part of all that was Trump is winning handedly and no networks declare the winner when they normally would have.... then at midnight key battleground states shut down counting everything goes dark... and voila in the morning, surprise! Biden somehow shot ahead to win it.

No surprise there to anyone who was paying any attention to the sequence of counting in-person day-of votes (which are known to skew Republican) and then subsequently count early ballots or mail in ballots that are known to skew Democrat because of the distrust Republicans sowed in mail in voting. That’s specifically why the networks didn’t call those states prematurely; they held off making calls knowing based on reams of past data that the next phase of ballot counting would likely see leads shift and in some cases change, and so their statistical criteria for calling a result were not met.

This has all been dissected and explained over and over again. For you or anyone else to still believe it’s indicative of some sort of fraud or conspiracy is just laughable.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Right? My favorite part of all that was Trump is winning handedly and no networks declare the winner when they normally would have.... then at midnight key battleground states shut down counting everything goes dark... and voila in the morning, surprise! Biden somehow shot ahead to win it.

While not wanting to open that can of worms, it'll be interesting as hell watching the dems complain the election was stolen if Trump wins.
Clinton, et al, still deny the outcome of the 16 race, calling Trump illegitimate, he stole it, blah, blah. They can crow it from the mountaintops, Trump gets indicted for saying the same.

 

[Lumber]

While not wanting to open that can of worms, it'll be interesting as hell watching the dems complain the election was stolen if Trump wins.
Clinton, et al, still deny the outcome of the 16 race, calling Trump illegitimate, he stole it, blah, blah. They can crow it from the mountaintops, Trump gets indicted for saying the same.

Literally no one has said that Trump stole the election and that the 16 election was illigitimate.

Still to early to tell, as usual. Personally, I don't believe biden's numbers any more than I believe he got 81 million votes. The most in history and more than Obama.

Right? My favorite part of all that was Trump is winning handedly and no networks declare the winner when they normally would have.... then at midnight key battleground states shut down counting everything goes dark... and voila in the morning, surprise! Biden somehow shot ahead to win it.

I know @brihard already beat me too it, but I can't not touch this one.

Laughable is too polite. To actually believe that there was some sort of mass fraud and conspiracy during the '20 election despite the fact that this was the most monitored, challenged, checked, and verified election anywhere in the world in all of history is sheer absurdity, unmitigatedly ignorant, and absolutely moronic.

So I'm not at all surprised you two hold this view.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Literally no one has said that Trump stole the election and that the 16 election was illigitimate.

Did Democrats suggest 2016 presidential election was stolen?

Gov. Glenn Youngkin recently gave his blessings to an "Election Integrity Unit" established by Attorney General Jason Mi

www.politifact.com

Not My Presidents Day - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

DisruptJ20 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2016 Portland, Oregon riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2016 Oakland riots - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html

That whole country is terribly divided and neither side is clean. And the fact that DJT, HRC and JB are the best they have put forward in almost a decade is a scathing report on the state of the main political parties.

 

[Brad Sallows]

No surprise there to anyone who was paying any attention to the sequence of counting in-person day-of votes (which are known to skew Republican) and then subsequently count early ballots or mail in ballots that are known to skew Democrat because of the distrust Republicans sowed in mail in voting. That’s specifically why the networks didn’t call those states prematurely; they held off making calls knowing based on reams of past data that the next phase of ballot counting would likely see leads shift and in some cases change, and so their statistical criteria for calling a result were not met.

This has all been dissected and explained over and over again. For you or anyone else to still believe it’s indicative of some sort of fraud or conspiracy is just laughable.

It's correct that projections rely on past results; it's incorrect that past results were the reason for hesitancy. The impact of voting rule changes - mostly in consequence of pandemic mitigation - was so great that no-one could reasonably trust that the predictive models were still valid.

The problem is that not all states are Florida, which has proven that counting votes doesn't need to drag out over days, thereby promoting chain of custody doubts.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Literally no one has said that Trump stole the election and that the 16 election was illigitimate.

Except literally Hillary Clinton.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Trump wants to ‘kill his opposition’ – Hillary Clinton​

Trump wants to ‘kill his opposition’ – Hillary Clinton

Ex-US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says Donald Trump seeks to emulate Russian President Vladimir Putin by killing political rivals

www.rt.com

A stretch, even for Killary.

 

[brihard]

There are idiots on both/ass sides. Some are quite prominent.

Trump, of course, has not been criminally indicted for falsely alleging the election was stolen. He has been indicted for various specific alleged criminal offences that have all been laid out in some detail by now. As a general pattern, his election-related indictments pertain to fraudulent and illegal actions that were carried out, including conspiracy, to actually try to effect a usurpation of the valid result.

Furtherance of The Big Lie is not in and of itself illegal. Conspiring to fraudulently install several slates of fake electors is.

 

[QV]

Laughable is too polite. To actually believe that there was some sort of mass fraud and conspiracy during the '20 election despite the fact that this was the most monitored, challenged, checked, and verified election anywhere in the world in all of history is sheer absurdity, unmitigatedly ignorant, and absolutely moronic.

Nobody says "mass fraud". I'm saying there was enough fraud to make the difference in key battleground districts.

What is laughable is to actually believe that last election was the "most monitored, challenged, checked, and verified election anywhere in the world in all of history". <---- that is pure comedy! Have you not paid any attention to all of the election fraud hearings at the county level?

The problem is that not all states are Florida, which has proven that counting votes doesn't need to drag out over days, thereby promoting chain of custody doubts.

This is the issue. The government doesn't get to be "innocent until proven guilty". The system must always demonstrate it's above board to prevent doubt and mistrust. If there is doubt, the integrity of the system is lost entirely.

 

[Remius]

No one interrupted the peaceful transfer of power when Trump won. The MAGA types interrupted the peaceful transfer of power when Trump lost. Based on precedent I have no doubt that maga types could try that again if he loses again.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Based on precedent I have no doubt that maga types could try that again if he loses again.

If the result is close, sure. I'm really interested to see what happens if he wins a close result. We'd see what happens when principle and expediency collide among the "defenders of democracy".

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No one interrupted the peaceful transfer of power when Trump won. The MAGA types interrupted the peaceful transfer of power when Trump lost. Based on precedent I have no doubt that maga types could try that again if he loses again.

Except this one isn't over. There's more than enough evidence, just on video alone, that things weren't what the Jan 6 Committee concluded. I don't think that can be argued.

That's the last response on last election from me. I won't be mired reiterating it here.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the result is close, sure. I'm really interested to see what happens if he wins a close result. We'd see what happens when principle and expediency collide among the "defenders of democracy".

The last time he won, the democrat BLM and ANTIFA burned a large portion of the country's cities and murdered numerous people.

 

[Remius]

The last time he won, the democrat BLM and ANTIFA burned a large portion of the country's cities and murdered numerous people.

Unrelated issues. Apples and dishwashers.

 

[Lumber]

What is laughable is to actually believe that last election was the "most monitored, challenged, checked, and verified election anywhere in the world in all of history". <---- that is pure comedy! Have you not paid any attention to all of the election fraud hearings at the county level?

You think you're countering my point, but you are actually helping it.

You and Fishbone seem to claim that the election was stole and that Biden didn't actually earn 81 million votes. The only way for that to be true is if there was massive fraud.

But, because of the level of verification in that election, we can confidently say that that didn't happen.

The fact that there are a bunch of irrelevantly minor fraud cases doesn't mean anything; their are cases of fraud in every election everywhere. As the saying goes, if you go looking for trouble, you will find it, and it this case there was a ALOT of looking.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Unrelated issues. Apples and dishwashers.

Mea culpa

 

[dimsum]

Still to early to tell, as usual. Personally, I don't believe biden's numbers any more than I believe he got 81 million votes. The most in history and more than Obama.

The Dems had a huge campaign to get people to vote in the 2020 election. Folks who wouldn’t normally have cared to vote, voted.

Trump wants to ‘kill his opposition’ – Hillary Clinton​

Trump wants to ‘kill his opposition’ – Hillary Clinton

Ex-US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says Donald Trump seeks to emulate Russian President Vladimir Putin by killing political rivals

www.rt.com

A stretch, even for Killary.

I hope that everyone here agrees that Russia hasn’t been exactly a good actor since 2016, so I’d dismiss Russia Today (state-owned and probably closest to the modern day Pravda) as a legit source for anything.

 

[brihard]

Furtherance of The Big Lie is not in and of itself illegal. Conspiring to fraudulently install several slates of fake electors is.

Couldn’t have timed that reply better if I’d tried. Arizona has just laid felony charges against their 11 fake Republican electors, alleging conspiracy, fraud, and forgery offences for trying to corruptly overturn the results of the presidential election in that state. Also indicted, though redacted in the version of the indictment linked below, are Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, John Eastman, Boris Epshteyn, Jenna Ellis, Mark Roman, and Christina Bob. So a familiar cast of characters from this season of FAFO.

Let the race to cut a favourable plea deal begin!

https://mcusercontent.com/cc1fad182b6d6f8b1e352e206/files/fa85cddf-ccc6-7dee-dd58-ff5e80d53b15/Indictment.03.pdf