23 Jul 10: CF-18 Crash @ Lethbridge Airport

[Zoomie]

Thank you G2G - I was cringing to think that some members here might have thought that we were for some reason talking about VMC (Visual Meteorological Conditions) and not the vastly more important critical airspeed.

 

[Zoomie]

I know what slow flight is, I TEACH slow flight I also teach Vmc.

Friendly tip - you are having high levels discussions with members of the serving Air Force at this juncture in your life.  While we appreciate the zeal in which you express your knowledge of aviation - speaking as a Flying Instructor at the school in which you will be visiting sometime in the next decade, you must learn to turn off transmit and listen out.

 

[57Chevy]

a thousand word picture:

 

[The Bread Guy]

More on the pilot's condition, from Postmedia News:

.... "This is an isolated incident with one aircraft," said Lt.-Col. Midas Vogan, commanding officer of the 419 Moose Squadron based in Cold Lake.

The jet crashed around noon while Capt. Brian Bews practised a stunt about 10 metres above the runway, according to some witnesses.

He was able to eject from the twin-engined aircraft and dodge a massive fireball.

He was taken to hospital with minor injuries and assessed by a military doctor from CFB Cold Lake.

As of Friday night, the 36-year-old Bews was "very lucid, and very clear and comfortable," Vogan said.

Bews is expected to be released from hospital "very shortly."....

 

[DexOlesa]

Excellent news

 

[WingsofFury]

He was apparantly released last night with just a sore back.

Glad to read that he's ok, and thanks to Martin-Baker seats.

As for why it happened - as others have stated, let the flight safety directorate do it's job.  Anything that we who have never flied a Hornet can suggest is really speculation.

 

[Loachman]

You don't see G2G, Strike, Loachman or myself making comments

I have seen plenty of accident investigations reveal causes completely different to those espoused by people speculating. This is why I rarely speculate myself, and then only with somewhat more information than a few photos or video clips.

I was one of the two last people to fly Kiowa 136258 and live in June of 1985. On its next flight that night, which I was originally scheduled to fly and could not due to a previous commitment, it crashed in Quebec just north of Pembroke, Ontario, killing two most excellent colleagues. Theories abounded, and mainly revolved around the unforecast crappy weather that they'd run into, certain Kiowa design characterisitics, and the tape of the Mayday call put out by the Observer.

The causes, when finally determined during a painstakingly thorough (which would have made CSI deservedly pale by comparison) nine-month investigation, were a complete surprise. It was a mechanical failure which had never occurred in millions of Kiowa and Jet Ranger flying hours. The part in question was found to be three ten-thousandths of an inch out of spec, and the allowable tolerance was only one. It had been on that helicopter for a couple of hundred hours before finally failing, and at the absolute worst possible time. The symptoms presented to the crew in ther final seconds were also extremely misleading.

And that is only one example out of several.

 

[Good2Golf]

a thousand word picture:

Great picture, 57.

For those interested, here is the information site for the Martin Baker Mk.10 ejection seat used in CF-18s.


G2G

 

[cn]

Amazing pictures & video.

Glad to hear Capt. Bews is alright.  :yellow:

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I have seen plenty of accident investigations reveal causes completely different to those espoused by people speculating. This is why I rarely speculate myself, and then only with somewhat more information than a few photos or video clips.

I was one of the two last people to fly Kiowa 136258 and live in June of 1985. On its next flight that night, which I was originally scheduled to fly and could not due to a previous commitment, it crashed in Quebec just north of Pembroke, Ontario, killing two most excellent colleagues. Theories abounded, and mainly revolved around the unforecast crappy weather that they'd run into, certain Kiowa design characteristics, and the tape of the Mayday call put out by the Observer.

The causes, when finally determined during a painstakingly thorough (which would have made CSI deservedly pale by comparison) nine-month investigation, were a complete surprise. It was a mechanical failure which had never occurred in millions of Kiowa and Jet Ranger flying hours. The part in question was found to be three ten-thousandths of an inch out of spec, and the allowable tolerance was only one. It had been on that helicopter for a couple of hundred hours before finally failing, and at the absolute worst possible time. The symptoms presented to the crew in their final seconds were also extremely misleading.

And that is only one example out of several.

Interesting insight into air crash investigations - thanks for relating it.

 

[WingsofFury]

Unless you are a high performance aircraft pilot - I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself.  You don't see G2G, Strike, Loachman or myself making comments - we don't fly those kind of military aircraft.  You cannot compare a Hornet to a Cessna.  Research Vmca and see if it applies.

Thanks for making the best comment I've ever seen on this matter when it comes to people who know vs. people who might know. 

 

[WingsofFury]

I have seen plenty of accident investigations reveal causes completely different to those espoused by people speculating. This is why I rarely speculate myself, and then only with somewhat more information than a few photos or video clips.

I was one of the two last people to fly Kiowa 136258 and live in June of 1985. On its next flight that night, which I was originally scheduled to fly and could not due to a previous commitment, it crashed in Quebec just north of Pembroke, Ontario, killing two most excellent colleagues. Theories abounded, and mainly revolved around the unforecast crappy weather that they'd run into, certain Kiowa design characterisitics, and the tape of the Mayday call put out by the Observer.

The causes, when finally determined during a painstakingly thorough (which would have made CSI deservedly pale by comparison) nine-month investigation, were a complete surprise. It was a mechanical failure which had never occurred in millions of Kiowa and Jet Ranger flying hours. The part in question was found to be three ten-thousandths of an inch out of spec, and the allowable tolerance was only one. It had been on that helicopter for a couple of hundred hours before finally failing, and at the absolute worst possible time. The symptoms presented to the crew in ther final seconds were also extremely misleading.

And that is only one example out of several.

Sad to read, but important to read - thanks for sharing it with us all.

 

[observor 69]

Looks like Capt. Bews is now qualified to be a member of the Martin Baker  "Ejection Tie Club."

http://www.martin-baker.com/Sub-Navigation/Ejection-Tie-Club.aspx

"The club where you have to get thrown out to be allowed in." 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-club-where-you-have-to-get-thrown-out-to-be-allowed-in-1019514.html

 

[SupersonicMax]

Great picture, 57.

For those interested, here is the information site for the Martin Baker Mk.10 ejection seat used in CF-18s.


G2G

I think all of Bagotville's jet have been upgraded with the NACES already.

 

[observor 69]

The Naval Aircrew Ejection Seat (NACES) seat was developed to take aircrew safety and survival to a higher level of control. Used in the F/A-18, F-14D, and T-45, the NACES is the most advanced seat used in the United States Navy inventory. The NACES uses a digital electonic sequencer along with airspeed sensors and electrically-fired systems on the seat to allow for five separate modes of operation. The various versions of the Mk. 14 NACES are designated SJU-17 with a suffix letter for the different variants. For example, the main picture here shows a SJU-17A seat which is for the F/A-18 single seat or front cockpit seat on a dual seat aircraft. Version differences include mainly seat bucket shape, headrest and canopy breaker configuration, and other changes to accomodate the various cockpit requirements.

Beyond the computer controlled firing sequence, it uses the same basic frame from the Mk. 10 series of seats including the tubular seat adjustment rails which allow for ease of disassembly. The drogue gun has been replaced with a rocket-deployed system which moves the drogue parachute from the headrest to the large tubular structure on the top right of the main beam assembly. With the addition of the Electronic sequencer, the scissor shackle has been eliminated. The main recovery parachute is housed in the headrest and deployed by a rocket which is located on the left main beam assembly. The sequencer computer module is a flat box which fits under the headrest, just above the shoulder harness. Protruding from the rear on either side of the headrest are the shielded squib cables. The sequencer is actuated by dual thermal batteries which are located on the main beam on the lower left side of the seat. These batteries are in turn actuated by hot gas from the duel initiators located under the seat firing handle at the front of the seat bucket.

More at LINK

 

[Good2Golf]

I think all of Bagotville's jet have been upgraded with the NACES already.

I was wondering that, Max?  The canopy looked suspiciously like a NACES GC Type 5000 aeroconical.  Does that mean that all R2 birds now have NACES/Mk.14 seats?

Baden, very interesting info.  Danke.

Cheers
G2G

 

[SupersonicMax]

G2G,

Cold Lake jets have yet to be upgraded with the NACES.  Every Hornet will get the NACES installed.  I believe this initiative was the a direct consequence of the 2003 ejection in the CLAWR.

 

[dapaterson]

Had a family friend who passed away last December who was a member of the Caterpillar club - he bailed out of a Lancaster into Denmark in '44.

 

[lea]

"All of a sudden you could hear 'pop, pop, pop,'" witness Roland Booth told CTV News. "I saw sparks come out of the one engine. The plane started banking over to the side. That's when the pilot bailed out with his parachute."

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/pilot-escapes-fiery-cf-18-crash-99162984.html

 

[SupersonicMax]

I know what slow flight is, I TEACH slow flight I also teach Vmc. It IS possible to mess up slow flight and end up in a stall. Unlikely for a seasoned high performance pilot yes, but not beyond the realm of possibility. Yes, you are right Vmc applies, I did not notice the difference in the engines in that picture. I wasn't looking that closely I just went off the raw footage.

Tell me, what do you know about High Alpha handling of the Hornet?  What about its critical Angle of Attack?