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Federal Government & Union spar over returning to office

Not a single complaint so far from the team I am on.

Challenges though are being identified, but I am sure will be adapted to.
Our big question is how will 100% of the team come in 60% of the time, when our office footprint is being reduced to 40% of required capacity (not including empty jobs we are trying to fill), with very limited on site parking.

Remote work was the only thing that let us fill some of the empty positions so we're basically ignoring the directive for some people while waiting to see what the process is to get exceptions approved.

A DND wide email came out the other week saying basically all previous remote work agreements were canceled effective today, and have to get resubmitted under some new tool that hasn't been rolled out yet.

Considering two months ago we were being praised for flexibility in difficult times, with improved productivity being highlighted, the arbitrary about face is leaving a bad taste in folks mouths (just for them being two faced hypocrits that are treating us like children).

With how broken public transit is in the NCR, commuting isn't an abstract concern. I was doing a 2-3 hour round trip previously on the buses, and not going back to that now that it's actually worse. Already pretty disatisfied so this may just be another straw on the proverbial camel for me, and a lot of folks are the same way. Suspect we'll have a lot of really senior people with a mass amount of institutional knowledge accelerate their retirements vice have to deal with the LRT, which was most recently down for about a week due to massive electrical arcing from some ice buildup.

Going into work at a random office just to 'be onsite' is stupid. Makes perfect sense to do some things in person, but reading emails, doing team calls to someone outside the area etc doesn't. Teams has been awesome for collaboration, so talking to the coasts more than ever, as well as other organizations within NDHQ, so not being able to manage what makes sense for the individual as a supervisor just pisses me off.
 
its the numpty do nothing at home that concerns me. And they are probably the "weakest link" in the office as well.

Unfortunately the Federal service has its share. Of course they are also Union protected.

Culturally and organizationally, there will always be those doing the absolute bare minimum. I think it's more or less how to manage them. I'm sure lots of managers / supervisors have 60-80% of staff who perform, and require little to no scrutiny. It's the remaining 20% which are the consideration ( Pareto Principle).
There is something to be said for in person work however. Many operational conversations and issues have taken place, and been resolved due to proximity of being able to have a quick chat....something which is difficult when you're looking at at teams contact and the little icon is red.
 
We have the same footprint problem. Not enough space and not sure how that will be managed as we phase in back to the office. Not to mention the frustration of having to have to fight for a spot when I hit the ground. I imagine some people will lose time trying to find a suitable spot to work. Or head home if they can’t lol.

Collaborating with TEAMS has been awesome but not sure how that will work in an open concept hybrid area. I’ll likely be limiting my teams activity to when I will be at home and able to use it properly.

But as you have mentioned, some people will return to the punch the clock mode of working and limit their flexibility.
 
With how broken public transit is in the NCR, commuting isn't an abstract concern. I was doing a 2-3 hour round trip previously on the buses, and not going back to that now that it's actually worse. Already pretty disatisfied so this may just be another straw on the proverbial camel for me, and a lot of folks are the same way. Suspect we'll have a lot of really senior people with a mass amount of institutional knowledge accelerate their retirements vice have to deal with the LRT, which was most recently down for about a week due to massive electrical arcing from some ice buildup.
Yup.

If you work downtown and can't walk to work, your options are either the LRT which is really hit-and-miss, or pay ~$175/month (prob over $200/mth now) in parking. If you can get it.

As for the lack of offices, there are a few floors at 101 Col By not being used much... :sneaky:
 
Our big question is how will 100% of the team come in 60% of the time, when our office footprint is being reduced to 40% of required capacity (not including empty jobs we are trying to fill), with very limited on site parking.

Remote work was the only thing that let us fill some of the empty positions so we're basically ignoring the directive for some people while waiting to see what the process is to get exceptions approved.

A DND wide email came out the other week saying basically all previous remote work agreements were canceled effective today, and have to get resubmitted under some new tool that hasn't been rolled out yet.

Considering two months ago we were being praised for flexibility in difficult times, with improved productivity being highlighted, the arbitrary about face is leaving a bad taste in folks mouths (just for them being two faced hypocrits that are treating us like children).

With how broken public transit is in the NCR, commuting isn't an abstract concern. I was doing a 2-3 hour round trip previously on the buses, and not going back to that now that it's actually worse. Already pretty disatisfied so this may just be another straw on the proverbial camel for me, and a lot of folks are the same way. Suspect we'll have a lot of really senior people with a mass amount of institutional knowledge accelerate their retirements vice have to deal with the LRT, which was most recently down for about a week due to massive electrical arcing from some ice buildup.

Going into work at a random office just to 'be onsite' is stupid. Makes perfect sense to do some things in person, but reading emails, doing team calls to someone outside the area etc doesn't. Teams has been awesome for collaboration, so talking to the coasts more than ever, as well as other organizations within NDHQ, so not being able to manage what makes sense for the individual as a supervisor just pisses me off.

Goooood.... goooood..... the private sector beckons with freedom and many jobs ;)

seth meyers GIF
 
Goooood.... goooood..... the private sector beckons with freedom and many jobs ;)

seth meyers GIF
lol, I laugh, but also am updating my resume, linkedin, and looking at using my ILP to help pay for some professional certifications (like P.Eng prep courses) for things I'm eligible for but haven't bothered yet.

Ironically, I could probably walk out Friday and back a month later as a contractor to support what I'm currently doing for a raise, and also get mileage and parking paid for meetings at DND sites. Charge out rate for what I do seems to be between $250-300 an hour plus travel.

If DND doesn't want to treat me like a a professional with a specialized niche skill set that they desperately need, they can enjoy the privilege of paying me as one plus the for profit markup. There isn't anyone in the pipeline either to replace me, which is in a job that genuinely needs a Masters to do (or pay a lot to get outside expertise, if you even know enough to know you don't know enough on the topic).

Commuting isn't a big deal, pay is adequate, but don't treat me like an idiot (unless you want commensurate performance).

@dimsum 101 is pretty good to get to on the LRT; even if it's broken down you are right on the route. Before the LRT I was a single bus door to door to the office I was at just down the street, and now it's a bus and train. In nice weather I can bike there about as fast as I can take the LRT (which is good because the LRT doesn't have bike racks). But if going into a random cubicle at 101 once in a while counts, I'll do that on occasion, as they have a good gym, right on the canal for PT, and the old school cubicles so it's like going to a library to work. Zero collaboration but ticks their box.

Depending where you are in the city, it's usually a bus to LRT and back to a bus for most DND buildings, which are outside the core. If you go to the Qc side you also need(ed?) separate bus tickets to start the trip there because they used a different system, and there wasn't an NCR wide bus pass that worked on both sides of the river (may have changed now).
 
Yup.

If you work downtown and can't walk to work, your options are either the LRT which is really hit-and-miss, or pay ~$175/month (prob over $200/mth now) in parking. If you can get it.

As for the lack of offices, there are a few floors at 101 Col By not being used much... :sneaky:
200$ would be a deal these days downtown.
 
Looks like they do...sort of?

I think they still don't allow you to use the Ottawa bus pass to do cash buys starting on the Qc side, which is the same it was before.

If you have a monthly pass, it's not a problem, but for occasional transit on the pay as you go it depends which side you start on, so for the Qc side I was using a ticket and a paper transfer on the retrun home.

I think doing it that way is about a $7 round trip, so nearly full time before it's about the same as a $125 monthly pass. Maybe I could get an STO bus pass (putting the estie back in your commute!) and load cash on it or something, but overall doesn't change the fact that the LRT adds on a lot of transfer time each way, and then it breaks down often enough it's simply not reliable, and the stations are already starting to rust out and have water damage to concrete.

If it was pre-LRT with the old bus routes that wouldn't be too bad, but they have a pretty poor safety record so far, so I'll probably drive (maybe carpool).

Sucks for the west coast though; when I'm done my workday on EST that will be it.
 
@Navy_Pete, you’d be helping Canada come close to spending 2% GDP on Defence.

View attachment 75905
If we can hit 1% despite the inefficiencies in the system, just imagine how much we could spend if we put our mind to intentionally being inefficient!

Lets just contract everyone and just have some contract managers; our SWE will drop, NP will skyrocket, KPI met!

Actually improving capabilities is for suckers and masochists.
 
lol, I laugh, but also am updating my resume, linkedin, and looking at using my ILP to help pay for some professional certifications (like P.Eng prep courses) for things I'm eligible for but haven't bothered yet.

Ironically, I could probably walk out Friday and back a month later as a contractor to support what I'm currently doing for a raise, and also get mileage and parking paid for meetings at DND sites. Charge out rate for what I do seems to be between $250-300 an hour plus travel.

If DND doesn't want to treat me like a a professional with a specialized niche skill set that they desperately need, they can enjoy the privilege of paying me as one plus the for profit markup. There isn't anyone in the pipeline either to replace me, which is in a job that genuinely needs a Masters to do (or pay a lot to get outside expertise, if you even know enough to know you don't know enough on the topic).

Commuting isn't a big deal, pay is adequate, but don't treat me like an idiot (unless you want commensurate performance).

@dimsum 101 is pretty good to get to on the LRT; even if it's broken down you are right on the route. Before the LRT I was a single bus door to door to the office I was at just down the street, and now it's a bus and train. In nice weather I can bike there about as fast as I can take the LRT (which is good because the LRT doesn't have bike racks). But if going into a random cubicle at 101 once in a while counts, I'll do that on occasion, as they have a good gym, right on the canal for PT, and the old school cubicles so it's like going to a library to work. Zero collaboration but ticks their box.

Depending where you are in the city, it's usually a bus to LRT and back to a bus for most DND buildings, which are outside the core. If you go to the Qc side you also need(ed?) separate bus tickets to start the trip there because they used a different system, and there wasn't an NCR wide bus pass that worked on both sides of the river (may have changed now).
I am curious at what job pays $250-300hr even as a contractor. Would you have to carry liability insurance and a business licensee also?
If that is the wage why would anyone be working for less then Half a million dollars for the same job?
 
Consulting firms that bill (say) $200/hour usually pay about $120/hour to the consultants they employ. Who work about 46 weeks a year (after leave including stat holidays), at 7.5 hours per day, perhaps. So just over $200K/year. With no benefits of any kind. No insurance. No EI if the contract is terminated, no pension, all insurance (health, long term disability, liability...) at your own expense.

Which, all things considered, is less than a major.
 
Consulting firms that bill (say) $200/hour usually pay about $120/hour to the consultants they employ. Who work about 46 weeks a year (after leave including stat holidays), at 7.5 hours per day, perhaps. So just over $200K/year. With no benefits of any kind. No insurance. No EI if the contract is terminated, no pension, all insurance (health, long term disability, liability...) at your own expense.

Which, all things considered, is less than a major.

No bonuses based on performance? No corporate health trust? No time off when you really need it at short notice without cutting into annual vacation days? No hiring staff as employees so they get full EI etc if laid off, which never happens becasue we're too busy? No regular professional development, fully funded by the company, including expenses? No sumptuous birthday presents, seasonal dinners with family members, fully paid corporate retreats?

Nice to know that the competition sucks ;)
 
I am curious at what job pays $250-300hr even as a contractor. Would you have to carry liability insurance and a business licensee also?
If that is the wage why would anyone be working for less then Half a million dollars for the same job?
That's not the contractor pay, that's the charge out rate. Unless the contractor is working for themselves they only get a portion of it. But that's a normal rate for a senior engineer, technical specialist etc. It gets higher that that.

We have a hard time filling LCMM jobs, and a lot of them have portions of the job (in some cases 90ish %) done by contractors. The charge out rate costs more than we'd pay for salary, and there are some restrictions around the financial approval side of things that still requires a DND employee to approve it (plus whatever the LOE is for the contract to hire and maintain the person, which isn't negligible). The contractors make a bit more than they would on salary, with the contractor covering any overhead, and whatever left is their profit.

So with some made up numbers for a contractor position where we would normally pay around $80k for an FTE, invoice might be $110-120k, actual wage to the person in the desk is $90k, with the remainder split between the prime contractor's overhead (office space, contract manager, admin support etc etc). For the portion of the work we can't do, lets say it's equivalent of about another $10-20k in salary for someone in DND to do the remainder and cover the delta off.

So basically a 50% cost increase (probably less when you factor in other SWE costs like EI etc paid in the background, but for the GoC that's paid to the GoC). for the same work output.

Why would we do it? Sometimes it's a term job (2-3 years?) so hiring a permanent employee might not make sense, most of the time is because we can't hire someone for other reasons. One big reason right now is a lot of people with expertise don't want to come to Ottawa, but I can hire them to do the techincal part of the job and work remotely as a contractor, provide the expertise, and get some non-technical person to cover off the remaining work (which is almost entirely general admin that doesn't need 20 years of expertise).

With the option last year for remote work, when we thought we could have LCMMs work remotely (ie coastal detachments), went from zero applicants to a dozen overnight. TBS screwed that up with their travel rules, and then the new mandate to go back to the office has a lot of people looking at other options again.

The reality is we have a significant portion of our workforce that we desparately need for their expertise/experience, close to retirement age, and financially stable enough where they could semi-retire now and be okay. Genuinely concerned about a mass retirement for some people who just don't want to go back to the broken ass commute, parking, all the costs with that, hot desking, and depending on the building, bats, asbestos, mould and lead in the water, just because someone on high arbitrarily says so.

Right now we give people the option to work where they prefer (if their job allows them to WFH), and do in person work where it makes sense (training, team building etc). It's not perfect, but neither was working from the office.

If an individual isn't productive at home, that's a supervisor problem to figure out (with the union).

If a supervisor isn't doing anything about unproductive individuals, that's a manager's issue to figure out.

It's a deep in the weeds issue that a 10,000' dictat can't manage, but that's what they want to do.

Personally I like a flexible hybrid option; some weeks maybe 1 day a week makes sense for in person, other weeks maybe it's 5, or zero, or whatever makes sense for the schedule that week. Maybe the next job will be all in person (which is fine), but this one isn't, and if they don't trust me enough to manage my time, then I probably shouldn't be trusted with a huge chunk of short, medium and long term life safety issues, which is my core job.
 
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