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York U Prof, takes a stand AGAINST religious sexism

The_Falcon

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I was actually surprised by the Professor's stand given who he works for.  Not surprised by his employers response. 
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/09/york-u-prof-wont-let-male-student-opt-out-of-working-with-female-classmates
TORONTO - Enough is enough.

It’s all well and good to be a welcoming, multicultural society that bends over backwards to respect everyone’s faith and belief. But there are certain inalienable, bedrock truths that go along with living here that cannot and should not be bent to “accommodate” different value systems.

Gender equality is one of them.

And so it’s shocking that a secular, publicly-funded school of higher learning such as York University would insist that a professor agree to a male student’s request to opt out of a group project because he doesn’t want to interact with his female classmates due to religious reasons.

To his credit, sociology professor J. Paul Grayson has defied the decision by dean Martin Singer, and with the backing of his department, told the student he must participate with women in his focus group assignment.

“We have to make a value choice,” he told the Toronto Sun. “What’s more important, the rights of females who make up 54% of the population, or those of individuals with religious notions incompatible with egalitarianism?”

Since going public about his battle with York, the 40-year veteran professor has been overwhelmed with hundreds of e-mails of support for not backing down and agreeing to the student’s request. “I think this case is the first of its kind in Canada. Everybody’s absolutely astounded,” he said.

Among the many students and faculty who applauded his stance was a female Muslim. “She said she has to live with this sexism all the time and she’s fed up.”

The issue arose in September when a male student in Grayson’s online sociology course sent a note asking to be excused from a required learning group: “One of the main reasons that I have chosen Internet courses to complete my BA is due to my firm religious beliefs, and part of that is the intermingling between men and women,” he wrote. “It will not be possible for me to meet in public with a group of women (the majority of my group) to complete some of these tasks.”

Grayson’s first inclination was to deny his request but decided to forward it to the dean as well as the director of the Centre for Human Rights. He was shocked by their response.

The vice dean said he must accommodate the student in the same way he would make other arrangements for someone who lived too far away to participate in the group project.

“Can I assume that a similar logic would apply if the group with which he did not want to interact was comprised of Blacks, Moslems [or] homosexuals?” Grayson asked in a written reply.

In fact, the professor added, such religious accommodation would require York to agree to segregated seating, separate tutorials and even gender-specific instructors.

Surprisingly, the university’s centre for human rights took a similar position as the dean’s office, saying the Ontario Human Rights Code requires accommodation based on religious observances.

“You lose sight of the values you try to protect and you cling to the procedure,” Grayson complained.

He refused to be an accessory to sexism. With the backing of a resolution passed by his sociology department, the professor wrote the student in October and told him he’d have to do his group course work with females. The man — “a decent, polite guy” — told him he understood. “I thank you for the way you have handled this request, and I look forward to continuing in this course.”

Shamefully, it’s the university which still has a problem with it.

On Oct. 18 Grayson received a confidential letter from the Dean of the Faculty of Liberal Arts and Professional Studies telling him he had a “legal obligation” to excuse the student from female interaction because of his religious views.

The senior professor has refused to change his mind. “They can come after me, I don’t care,” he said. But he worries that a younger faculty member would be intimidated into a different decision.

“Do we want our daughters going to universities where it’s OK for male students to say that we don’t want to interact with you?” Grayson asked. “I have a granddaughter. I certainly don’t want her ever going into that situation.”

The days of segregation are over. The religious student gets it. Why can’t his university?

I think it was Mandel last year, who observed during the incident of the women going to the OHRC after Muslim barbers refused to accept her patronage, that these "clashes" will become more and more common.  I personally think it's hilarious as hell, as the usual human rights/equality for all people, twist themselves into knots, trying to justify equality based discrimination.  ;D
 
From CTV:

...

And after consulting with Judaic and Islamic scholars -- not knowing the student’s religion -- Grayson found there was no reason for the student to abstain from interacting with women for the purposes of the course he is enrolled in.

Grayson, who has never met the student in person, said he had an online conversation with him to explain his reasons for refusing the request, despite orders from the dean asking Grayson to comply.

“He’s a fairly reasonable guy, he’s not the problem,” Grayson said. “When I gave reasons why it was not possible, he basically said: ‘well I accept that, and I’ll do the assignment.’”
 
The University administration and the Dean in particular should be subject to public shaming and ridicule.

Since I have a daughter who is on the cusp of going to an institute of higher learning, I'm going to make a point of writing to the Dean and explaining why she is never going to enroll in a sexist, discrimatory place like York (and CC to my Member of Parliament, the President and Senate of the University). I would suggest that as many of the readers of the post do so as well, to ensure the mesage is clearly received. If we want this sort of nonsense to stop, then more people than the one valient professor are going to have to make a stand.
 
Wrong link in first post: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/01/09/york-u-prof-wont-let-male-student-opt-out-of-working-with-female-classmates
 
Thank God that student doesn't want to associate with women.  It means he will not procreate.
 
George Wallace said:
Thank God that student doesn't want to associate with women.  It means he will not procreate.

But.....but.....we'll just be wasting all those virgins!!
 
I showed my girlfriend this article last night and she was offended. I can only imagine how infuriated the girl that was assigned to work with this individual must have felt. Unacceptable. York University, you fail.
 
Saw an interesting comment somewhere - if you replace the word "women" with "black" would the university take the same stance?
 
This whole affair goes against the Charter of Human Rights that Canada has, against most other Civil Liberties that the WEST has and against the essence of what Canadian society stands for.  On the other hand, had that student 'withdrawn' from that university course on religious grounds, then that would be their Right to do so.  However, that student is inflicting his Religious beliefs in a manner to affect the Rights of another student which is discriminatory; and has received the approval to do so by York University.  Just another black mark against that university's reputation.
 
George Wallace said:
This whole affair goes against the Charter of Human Rights that Canada has,

The legal beagles here can correct me, but I think the Charter section on discrimination concerns equality before the law, and not within private institutions.
 
Infanteer said:
Saw an interesting comment somewhere - if you replace the word "women" with "black" would the university take the same stance?
ZACKLY!

matthew1786 said:
I showed my girlfriend this article last night and she was offended. I can only imagine how infuriated the girl that was assigned to work with this individual must have felt. Unacceptable. York University, you fail.
I can't find the ref, but one of the versions I read of this story said the prof in question surveyed another class, asking women (without identifying what was happening in this case) how they'd feel in the situation.  They, too, were pretty pissed.

We now know that at York, with this dean, anyway, religious rights trump gender equality rights.
 
GAP said:
But.....but.....we'll just be wasting all those virgins!!
But he doesn't get them till he dies, so they are still safe.....
 
Infanteer said:
The legal beagles here can correct me, but I think the Charter section on discrimination concerns equality before the law, and not within private institutions.

The Charter does not discriminate between Public or Private.
 
milnews.ca said:
ZACKLY!
I can't find the ref, but one of the versions I read of this story said the prof in question surveyed another class, asking women (without identifying what was happening in this case) how they'd feel in the situation.  They, too, were pretty pissed.

We now know that at York, with this dean, anyway, religious rights trump gender equality rights.


It's not about rights, it's about cowardice in the face of any controversy and it's about the basics of modern civilization. Women have been enrolled in universities, on a broad and general basis, since the 19th century ... there's nothing in any way controversial about boys and girls, men and women, being in the same classrooms, working and studying together. If one person has a problem with it then he has a bigger problem: he's not equipped to live in the 21st century ... not as anything other than a hermit in a cave on some hilltop in a very foreign country.

The Dean in question, at York, is, simply, displaying the total back of moral spine that is characteristic of many people in positions of minor public power. He's unfit to lead anything because his moral judgement is almost totally lacking. He'll be fine in the senior ranks of most universities and government departments, including DND.

The issue is simple: the young man is wrong. There are no sides to this. His right to freedom of conscience is absolute and private, it does not, must not, in my opinion, extend to any public place. End.of.issue. I don't object to religious institutions, including schools and colleges but I do object to the intrusion of religion into public, secular institutions, which York, at least implicitly, claims to be. I object to chapels, prayer rooms or temples in public, secular institutions ... if you must pray or discuss why your god is better than her god, then enrol in a religious school; if there isn't one then start one. But keep your shamans and your myths out of the public sphere.
 
George Wallace said:
The Charter does not discriminate between Public or Private.

In the matter of George Wallace vs the Canadian Bar Association, I'm going with the Canadian Bar Association.

http://www.cbabc.org/For-the-Public/Dial-A-Law/Scripts/Your-Rights/232.aspx

Section 15 applies to government, not the private sector
You can’t use section 15 to challenge every inequality in life. The Charter controls laws and other government actions. It doesn’t control private citizens, businesses, or organizations. Before you can claim the protection of section 15, you must show that you are being treated unequally by a law or by the action of a government official or department or some agency very closely connected to government, such as a school board or labour relations board. If a private individual, organization, or company violates your rights, you may be able to complain under the BC Human Rights Code or the Canadian Human Rights Act. For more information on this, check script 236– “Human Rights and Discrimination Protection”, and script 270 – “Protection Against Job Discrimination”.
 
Very good points ERC.

You brought up another point, semi-relevant to this case, which we have already witnessed the government cave into.

E.R. Campbell said:
...... I object to chapels, prayer rooms or temples in public, secular institutions ... if you must pray or discuss why your god is better than her god, then enrol in a religious school; if there isn't one then start one. But keep your shamans and your myths out of the public sphere.

Agreed.
 
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