Would you prefer to work in a Unionized or Non Unionized work place?

[SupersonicMax]

Treemoss, I think the difference in the working condition is not due to having/not having a union but more so with being a government job vs private sector job. 

Unions, IMO discourage initiative and healtly competition between workers.  People become zombies waiting for their turn to move up...

 

[mariomike]

Unionized. 100% unionized. Simply based on my occupation and experience working for several private services. Out where I am now ambulance services are split between government-run/unionized and private-owned, and the differences are night and day in comparision.


On the union side: Patient-centered care management, better equipment, employee protection, $8 more/hr, 12-hour shifts with proper OH&S management of fatigue, differential pay for night shifts, full coverage benefits, paying into a pension.
Private side: Money focused management.. the more transfers the better, sub-standard/used/OOS equipment, employees can be fired for a simple disagreement, 24hour shifts lasting 2-7(not kidding) days at a time, no fatigue management, 70% coverage.. and no pension. Oh, and overly political.


To be clear I'm not against private-owned business, I'm against it being done wrong.

Our department has been unionized without interruption since Oct 22nd 1917. I've never been on strike. Items that can't be negotiated go to binding interest arbitration.

Transfers are done by private non-union companies.

 

[Treemoss]

Our department has been unionized without interruption since Oct 22nd 1917. I've never been on strike. Items that can't be negotiated go to binding interest arbitration.

Transfers are done by private non-union companies.

Back home I 100% agree with you, outside companies running transfers only makes complete sense to do. Out this way though......

Here the system is split into private and government-run services, both do emergency and transfers. Aside from districts or location both are doing the same job, yet one  gets something more then the other. On the flip side to this though and jumping back to my comment about more transfers = mo'money, private service owners get paid a substantial amount more for transfers than for emergencies through a government contract, which also funds the service wholly(gas included 8) ) and mandates the minimum wage for employees. The intention from my understanding was that the profits would trickle down to  employees and into operational costs, saving the government some money vs making everything government and union run. Unfortunately, many operators only honour the minimum requirements to run their service, including wage and equipment conditions in order to maximize profits. Lets just say its a sad day when your operator calls in another private service to do an emerg call so you can take misses home x.x.



You're most likely right supersonicMax, though I dont believe it's fair that the unionized portion of the sector get to negotiate for better benefits,hours, pay, etc., when they do the same job as their private counterparts who dont really have much of a say x.x. I also think that despite creating sameness, unions provide a platform(the ones ive been in atleast) to bring up problems and voice issues that need addressing. It's a really funky two-tiered-feeling system here.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

One of the main problems with unions is their management has not changed. My sister was a labour lawyer and Labour adjudicator. When I heard her description of what went on in the courtroom, it often bore little relationship to what was reported. Media had an axe to grind on one side or the other. Unions are also pretty nasty to each other and not always the best place to work. Unions are required by law to support all their members equally regardless of what they think of them. In fact in one case my shop steward here said that in one case he almost dragged the member out into the alley to pound the snot out of him for being a true dirtbag. He had to play along to ensure that member got fired and could not sue the management or union.

A big issue in government is that managers did not follow the process to fire someone, giving them a chance to appeal. My management course focused heavily on the process of firing a employee and the steps required. However as we found out the HR department and Senior management buckled on us despite having a good and airtight case. during a staffing action you might have 2-3 HR advisers each giving different and often incorrect advice. 

 

[Pencil Tech]

To respond to the OP's original question, unionised, no question. Unions can be a pain in the pants, but still.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It would be nice to live in a world were they are not needed, but human nature is what it is.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Does any of this sound familiar? Kinda like deja vu all over again.

Now those that thought it would end different than the last times this has been discussed, put up your hands.

You know the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result

 

[cupper]

Does any of this sound familiar? Kinda like deja vu all over again.

Now those that thought it would end different than the last times this has been discussed, put up your hands.

You know the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result

I'm going to talk to my union rep and file a grievance! >

 

[stealthylizard]

What would I gain from being in a unionized work place?  I have medical/dental/vision benefits.  I have paid vacation.  The company matches my RRSP contributions.  I wouldn't mind a pension, but those are disappearing even in unionized work places.

 

[SupersonicMax]

It would be nice to live in a world were they are not needed, but human nature is what it is.

Law and government policies should protect workers the same way unions protected workers back in the 1800s...  The role of unions today is redundant.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Law and government policies should protect workers the same way unions protected workers back in the 1800s...  The role of unions today is redundant.

That is already in place. That's why you have federal Health & Safety Inspectors and provincial counterparts who investigate and prosecute the Occupational Health & Safety Act and all it's related Regulations.

They also go into a ton of unionized places that are rife with hazards. Unions are not the experts they profess to be in regards to H&S. Nor are they the panacea for the problem.

 

[SupersonicMax]

That's part of it, but minimum wages and compensations for extra hours are other things union fight for and that governments have law in place to address those.

My point is that in today's age, with the amount of government oversight in workplaces, unions are redundant and not required.  They do, however, artificially inflate salaries for trades and professions that would otherwise be subject to supply and demand.

 

[stealthylizard]

How quick would government start to get rid of the labour rights if unions disappeared or severely weakened to the point where they could no longer mount a challenge against the government dismantling those rights?

It already happened in the US in regards to overtime pay in 2004.  Many workers were reclassified as managers/supervisors, which then exempted them from being paid overtime.

 

[mariomike]

It already happened in the US in regards to overtime pay in 2004.  Many workers were reclassified as managers/supervisors, which then exempted them from being paid overtime.

The ( non-union ) managers/supervisors where I used to work are paid overtime:
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/21/ems-senior-managers-make-huge-overtime-claims

2012
"The Toronto Sun can reveal some Toronto EMS senior management staff have claimed an almost unimaginable amount of overtime in the past 12 months alone — all paid in cash rather than taken as time in lieu."

 

[Colin Parkinson]

a lot of what a union rep does on the ground is boring stuff. I had to file a grievance for time awarded to me by the Minister of Fisheries for my CCG Rescue Specialist service in lieu of extra pay (We did not get paid to do Rescue Specialist services at first). I had that time saved so I could go on course to upgrade my ticket (CCG would not pay you to take a course and you used your own time and money to get it), when I took an acting assignment and then my position was transferred to another department, both refused to pay out, transfer or acknowledge the time given to me because it did not "fit into the contract" My boss and Regional Director were sympathetic but felt their hands were tied by Compensation branch. It was only the threat of a level 3 Grievance that resulted in the Regional Director General stepping in and offering up a solution to the issue. without the union rep  would have been screwed out of 16 12hr days because the system was not flexible enough.

Another great story. DFO ships crewed out of Victoria, worked a Monday-Friday schedule. Ship arrives in Prince Rupert on Friday, HQ informs the crew if they wish to stay on the ship over the weekend they will have to pay room and board. This happens for a few times. One friday the union flies the crew back to Victoria and the crew shows up at the dock in Victoria on Monday morning and says to HQ "Where's the ship?" Contract stated ship crewed out of Victoria. Sanity prevails and the room and board issue away from home port is dropped.

Basically if the union and management do a good job and treat each other honourably nobody ever hears about it because it's not news. You only hear the bad and weird, good is boring.     

 

[mariomike]

Basically if the union and management do a good job and treat each other honourably nobody ever hears about it because it's not news. You only hear the bad and weird, good is boring.   

I agree. I believe the relationship between our union and the department was mostly positive.  We never had a strike, lock-out or layoff of our job classification.

Outstanding issues not resolved through collective bargaining are settled through "mandatory tripartite interest mediation-arbitration".