Would you prefer to work in a Unionized or Non Unionized work place?

[s2184]

Greetings & Merry X-Mas to everyone!  :christmas happy: ;D


When you work in a unionized work place, everything is mostly based on seniority + you are also mostly protected by the union.
On the other hand, in non unionized work place, everything is mostly performance/merit based + there might be lots of politics involved & not much job security.

Which place would you rather choose to work?

My preference: Although I see lots of inefficiencies & nonsense, I prefer to work in a unionized company 

Thank you for your insights & participation. 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

+ you are also mostly protected by the union.

No you are not.............you are represented by the Union.
If you're not worthy and Management does their job documenting that properly, then you're gone. 
Someone I worked with for the last seven years was given the opportunity to resign last month instead of a drawn out proceeding. That negotiation was the extent of her "protection".


EDIT: 5 bailifs just lost their jobs two weeks before Christmas..........protected??

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

You're asking a question about unions on a military forum, an organization with with no concept of unions.  What answer do you expect to receive?  It's kind of a weird question to ask on here, don't you think?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

RD,....it's in Radio Chatter.  It's not even close to what passes for 'weird' in here. :-X

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Summary

National Picture — About one in three Canadian employees (31.5%) belonged to a union or were covered by a collective agreement in 2012.
Gender — In 2012, slightly more female than male employees belonged to a union or were covered by a collective agreement (32.8% for women and 30.3% for men).
Age — Unionization differed substantially by age. In 2012, the unionization rates ranged from 16.0% for employees aged 15 to 24 to 38.1% for employees aged 55 to 64.
Regions — In 2012, unionization rates varied from 23.5% in Alberta to 39.9% in Quebec.

I'd like to work where there is an economy and hence a job...like say Alberta - unless I was old and lived in Quebec, in which case I could hope to some day get a job that was unionised..

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

RD,....it's in Radio Chatter.  It's not even close to what passes for 'weird' in here. :-X

Whoops.... I missed that it was in Radio Chatter.  Still though, it's a weird question to ask on this forum.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If you're not worthy and Management does their job documenting that properly, then you're gone. 

A lot of people don't seem to realize a lot rides on the bit in yellow.

I've worked in good non-union environments where the bosses respected and did reasonably well by the workers (and was laid off with 20 minutes notice and a box for my stuff), and I've worked in union environments where the bosses were "meh" (especially about not having tough talks with people who are underperforming and making extra work for others - see yellow above).

 

[mariomike]

When you work in a unionized work place, everything is mostly based on seniority + you are also mostly protected by the union.
On the other hand, in non unionized work place, everything is mostly performance/merit based + there might be lots of politics involved & not much job security.

Which place would you rather choose to work?

My preference: Although I see lots of inefficiencies & nonsense, I prefer to work in a unionized company 

The union I belonged to was formed in 1917. ( Toronto Police and Fire formed their unions in 1918. ) Membership had nothing to do with personal preference. It was a continuous condition of employment. From the day you hire on to the day you retire.

We did not have, and did not seek, the right to strike.

Everything was seniority driven. All postings were filled by the Senior Qualified Process.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Everything was seniority driven.

...and that is negotiable.  The building I'm in now only went to that four years ago and the big jail I worked at before never had this.........management picked spots as their 'right to manage'.

 

[mariomike]

...and that is negotiable.  The building I'm in now only went to that four years ago and the big jail I worked at before never had this.........management picked spots as their 'right to manage'.

Yes. Everything is negotiable. If it can't be negotiated, it goes to binding interest arbitration.

We now have a Relative Ability Process in our collective agreement. It is based on qualifications, experience, education and ability.

But, it only applies to Level 4 Critical Care Transport Paramedics. That's only 17 positions out of a department of 1,100+ members. ( That includes Communications and Logistics etc. )

Senior Qualified Process still applies to all other ( Level 1, 2 and 3 ) Paramedic positions.

 

[Hisoyaki]

Unions are political groups. They are major contributors to various left-wing causes. The main union here (FTQ) backs both the PQ and the Bloc Quebecois, it is beyond corrupt and has ties both to the Rizzuto clan and the bikers.

Even if I look at it at a strictly personal/greedy level or at the level of lowly office politics...

Documentation is a euphemism for bureaucracy.  The man on the ground will always know more then some distant HR department or political union.

There is no guarantee either that they will help your case.  When you have a union of say 8 000 or 15 000 or 40 000 members and you work in a smaller group, what are the odds that they will represent you?

Nobody, in good conscience, should support these aberrations.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Unions are political groups. They are major contributors to various left-wing causes. The main union here (FTQ) backs both the PQ and the Bloc Quebecois, it is beyond corrupt and has ties both to the Rizzuto clan and the bikers.

Even if I look at it at a strictly personal/greedy level or at the level of lowly office politics...

Documentation is a euphemism for bureaucracy.  The man on the ground will always know more then some distant HR department or political union.

There is no guarantee either that they will help your case.  When you have a union of say 8 000 or 15 000 or 40 000 members and you work in a smaller group, what are the odds that they will represent you?

Nobody, in good conscience, should support these aberrations.

Lets just say, in not having a clue about what you ramble about, you do give credence to the 'broken clock' theory.

'Documentation is bureaucracy"?...............ya, no shit Sherlock, but those pesky things like profit, taxes, your pay cheque, all  depend on such things....

 

[larry Strong]

Although I see lots of inefficiencies & nonsense, I prefer to work in a unionized company 

Which to me speaks volumes about your character and work ethic. If you were to come work for me, my guess is you would be shown the door well before your 90 day probation period is up........



cheers
Larry

 

[mariomike]

If you were to come work for me, my guess is you would be shown the door well before your 90 day probation period is up........

Is a 90 day probationary period typical for most new hires?

The reason I ask is our probationary period has always been twelve months, and may be extended to eighteen months based on performance.

 

[Bass ackwards]

Mike, I've seen it as low as 30 days. Where I am now, I believe it's 60 work days.
Mind you, I've seen new hires blow shifts while still on probation and keep their jobs -which kinda makes you wonder why even bother with a probationary period?

 

[mariomike]

Mike, I've seen it as low as 30 days. Where I am now, I believe it's 60 work days.
Mind you, I've seen new hires blow shifts while still on probation and keep their jobs -which kinda makes you wonder why even bother with a probationary period?

Thanks, B-A. Probies can be fired at any time. I'm not sure if you are even entitled to know why they let you go.

I chuckled about the yellow highlighted part because it reminded me of what someone said to me a long time ago.  That, after probation, it was almost impossible to get thrown out. That unless you became a public disgrace, that they would tolerate almost anything. 

The truth was that it was possible to get fired after probation. But, with all the treatment programmes available now, it seems to be less likely than it used to be.

 

[cryco]

I'm in a non-unionized env (bunch of engineers) and everything is merit based. Seniority means jack sh1t for anything but vacation time and your severance package.
You work hard you move up. You work well, you stay where you're at (grunts are necessary in all organizations).Bonuses are based on performance and so are raises.
Now for unionized env, my gf is a natal assistant at a birthing center, which is unionized. All the crap i have heard happen in there is sicking. Incompetence is irrelevant.
Seniority was all that mattered. Of course, the manager is a p***y. She couldn't discipline someone if her life depended on it.
Nonetheless, the most disgruntled, senior member of my gf group had given up on doing well after so many years, but nothing could be done. She even transferred out and had her position and rank protected for one year in case she decided to come back. wtf?
Conclusion, unions sicken me.

 

[mariomike]

EDIT: 5 bailifs just lost their jobs two weeks before Christmas..........protected??

I remember when they fired ten Supervisors in a single day. Not for cause, just to trim the budget. Because they were non-union, it was not considered a Layoff and they had no right to Recall.

I knew each of them, and it was never clear why those ten were selected while others in management were spared.

These people were management. No "front-line" union member in the department was ever laid off during my time there. Even if they were, they would have been eventually Recalled. 

 

[s2184]

I agree, regardless of if it is a unionized/non-unionized work place, it is all about how the company is in overall + the characteristics, and the ability of an individual employee. There are good non-unionized companies, and bad unionized companies and vice-verse.

I notice (in average) senior employees take easy/interesting/light job tasks, and whereas the new employees/employees under probation have to do all the muscle work/most difficult/boring tasks in the work place regardless of the nature of the company, and I guess this is how it goes in  most places.

 

[Occam]

Releasing from the CF a little over three years ago and taking a Public Service position with DND, I had never before worked in a union.  Our particular union pays one of the highest dues in the PS, but to their credit we have had a pretty good contract to show for it.  Our union is being proactive in negotiations with Treasury Board, and countering with viable solutions to the TB desire to change the sick leave program entirely (our counter-offer included terms that TB accepted for the Nav Canada agreement recently, so we know those terms were considered reasonable).  The union will protect you in cases of unsubstantiated wrongdoing, but don't expect them to back you up if your supervisor has documented you as being a slouch.  The vast majority of people I work with are very hard working and not what some people like to stereotype as lazy public servants.  A lot of us work undocumented/unclaimed overtime simply because we're understaffed and we know the job needs to be done for the benefit of the troops on the pointy end.  I vastly prefer a unionized work place.

It also bears mentioning/reminding that CF members' pay is directly tied to that of the Public Service.  The CF benefits from the PS collective bargaining process.