Would Mandatory National Service make the CF stronger?

[haplo6]

FYI MTF. Germany most certainly does have mandatory military service. I know this to be a definate fact as I‘m living their right now. The only thing that has changed about it in recent years is young people now have the option of working in civil service (ie. cheap gov‘t labour) or the military.

Romania Does not have mandatory military service and neither does Slovakia. My wife is Romanian and The people I work with are Slovakian.

 

[PilotGal]

I think mandatory military service for 18 year olds is a good idea - for BOTH men and women, for at least 8 months. But remember, this is not necessarily for a stronger CF, but for efficiency in times of war, when people are drafted. It is always better to have already trained people drafted than training people from point 0 when the war has started. And it also builds character and teaches discipline.

And add Lebanon to that list too (not that it‘s a big deal LOL).

Mandatory military service at 18 - you‘re spared for a few years if you‘re attending university, but have to go back and serve once you‘re done with your degree. Training is he||. It just totally f*cks up some people - something like that kid in Full Metal Jacket. If you flee the country to avoid serving, they catch you at the airport once you come back, and you‘ll be charged and imprisoned. LOL. But, there are always ways around this - you can hand someone a coupla hundred dollars and be done with the military service. Many people do that because they‘ve heard so many horror stories - it‘s just literally scary.

And another thing, women are allowed into basic training, but I think they‘re trained separately (!), and then they are appointed to office positions, and can‘t do anything else, like infantry, artillery, etc. And you don‘t advance into the position you want to advance to unless you bribe people and have relatives/friends who can shift you up into that position. It‘s a sad fact that army life is like that - it just shows how corrupt people in the Lebanese army are.

D.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I‘d be fore some kind of service.

That is until i take a walk downtown and see kids who live on the street because they dont want to be in school or listen to their parents rules. People who will starve just to spend their last $30 on extacy and bottled water.
Canada totally doesnt have the mentality for that stuff.

Maybe we just need MTF in our army to level things out

 

[blackhat56]

MTF I hate to correct you but germany has had conscription since the four powers left and the FRG was formed. I spent 5 years in lahr and we worked a lot with german units and a large percentage were draftees. you had the choice of doing your time in the armed forces or any other service to the state. German draftee‘s were treated pretty basic but then at the end of their term they could elect to join the regulars and their benefits went way up, ie pay,quarters, and such. Before unification the bundswehr stood at 3 regular corps and 4 reserve corps so they could throw a lot of manpower at the fulda gap or north german plains. I was born in France as my dad was posted to NATO there before degaulle kicked us out so when I turned 18 I got a letter in french stating that I was drafted lol Quelle surprize needless to say I never reported in as I was already in the cdn army and no friggin way was I going to wear a kepi. lol

 

[ForeverPvt]

On paper it sounds great. All of our troubled youth get a good kick in the *** and learn some discipline. Unemployment drops, blah, blah.... Unfortunately with a conscripted army you get a lower quality soldier and the government has to make consessions for these people. For instance, look at the Dutch while they had manditory service. Long hair, ACDC shirts, and Nike‘s while on duty. If thats the kind of army people want, I‘m outta here. Besides, if we had to fund all of these people, where would the Liberals get their cash to grow dope in caves?

 

[Pugnacious]

OK I was just seeing a report on TV about how out of shape some of us Canadians are, and then I come here to read about how short of warm bodies we have for the CF.  So my question is why not a system like Sweden?  Don't they have a manditory service of some description? Or am I thinking of another country?
It might improve the health of our population, and give us more support.  Just a silly thought.  What cha' think?  Be gentle I'm a Civi. ;D

Cheers!
P.

 

[Jesse3]

I myself dont think its a bad idea at all. I'm sure others can come up for reason against it like we are free to choose to go in or not.

 

[1feral1]

I think a totally volunteer force is always the best, but on the other hand I dont mind the idea of national service either. It was here until 1972 in Australia, where they were known as 'Nashos'.

Australia sent over 50,000 troops to Viet Nam from 1962-72, and many were Nashos as weer ARA (Australian Regular Army) also.

Of course in todays world, it would be easy to get out of it any way. Only the serious would go for it anyway I reckon.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Sheerin]

I don't think a manditory service is something that would go over to well, especially with those who are between 18 and 25. 
I kinda like the idea that Heinlein put forth in Starship troopers, where in order to be a full citizen with the power to vote you have to enlist in the federal service. 
I mentioned this idea to a few of my housemates this past academic year, 1 a conservative, one in the middle and one extreme leftest, and all of agreed that manditory service was a bad idea.  As the extreme leftest said (and i'm paraphrasing) "why should I have to be put into a situation where i'd have to kill in order to vote?"  He also believed that all those who joined the military were adrenlin junkies who just wanted to kill and he cited his family as evidence for this.  He also got high (off of weed) at least 6 times a day and loved shrooms... just go towards credibility.

 

[Jascar]

Plenty of European countries (Austria, Germany, Finland, Norway, Greece, Russia, Sweden, Switzerland) have some sort of conscription. Most of the Middle East and lots of Asian nations also have it.

Conscription has always been a very controversial issue in Canada, so it would likely meet severe opposition. Most of the countries that use conscription have long histories of it. Imposing it upon a society with little or no conscription history is usually quite messy, such as in the USA during Vietnam.

Then there's the fact that the Canadian government can barely afford the troops it has now. 214,623 males reach military age in Canada annually (http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html). Employing these people in military service would give Canada a much larger and more expensive military than it realisticly needs.

But getting to your original point, military service might not be the best way to fight obesity. Some people in the military are fit, but certainly not all........

 

[Military Brat]

Well, personally, as someone who is in the process of enlisting, I would much rather have someone beside me who actually wants to be there as opposed to someone who was just conscripted. Especially when "the mess" hits the fan.

I think a volunteer service is good, up until our sovereignty is dependant upon winning a war. If/when that occurs, I think it is the duty of every able-bodied person in the country to defend what we all believe in. Until then, our military as is, maybe with more funding and a few more troops is adequate I think.

But then there is the big question of equipment. Someone earlier cited 214,000 as the number reaching military service age each year, that is a tremendous amount of people. If mandatory military service was say 3 years, that is almost 650,000 people in arms, along with those who are willingly there past their term of service. So that could easily put numbers over 700,000 people, possibly even more. Canada really has no need for such a military. In order to have such a military you need to be able to employ them. We aren't in immediate threat of being invaded by anybody(despite what the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada might tell you, who think annexation by our neighbors to the South is imminent).

Also, it would be political suicide if any politician tried to push for mandatory military service. For some odd reason there seems to be a growing movement among the youth of this country that we don't even need a military, so I can only guess how well conscription would go over.

 

[Scratch_043]

I think that the 'serve to vote' school is the best Idea, then you would only have people who are serious about Canadian issues deciding our future.

I do not like the idea of mandatory service for everyone tho; like Military Brat posted above, I know quite a few ass clowns that I would never want to even hold a firearm, or have to rely on when the going got tough.

 

[nULL]

Bad idea, especially in a country such as Canada. One of the side effects of Canada's unparalleled multiculturalism is that many of her subjects would have trouble fighting for the "values we all believe in." If Canadians are unable to come to a consensus on values such as marriage and bilingualism, I doubt international affairs will go over well. I mean, if it was hummed-and-hawed upon by the CDN government (largely because of Quebec) during a period where the entire world was at war.....

And Brat, speaking as a university-going lefty who is ALSO in the process of enlisting, I'd just like to know whether or not you have actually been to a university. I'm curious, because during my poli sci lectures, I heard nothing but good things about the forces from other students. Oh, and on the Marxist-Leninist party of Canada....

http://www.cpcml.ca/tmld/Archive.htm

Perhaps you could highlight the article that outlines the coming US invasion and need to militarize...? I found articles like these:

"¢ The Challenge Facing Small Parties (notice how people are voting for major parties because "they can't be any worse?")
"¢ Elect a Steelworker to Parliament! (not a bad idea to get rid of career politicians!)
"¢ A Public Dogfight Is Not a Leader's Debate (Martin in particular was being an *******, attacking Layton who was polite throughout)

Some are pretty extreme, true, but I didn't see any that were particularly threatening.
Perhaps you should form your own opinions instead of trying to using stereotypes and overblown generalizations to score points with conservative members of the board.

 

[Pugnacious]

All good points.
I also like the idea of the serve in the forces so you can Vote system.

Cheers!
P.

 

[Tebo]

The foundation of Starship Troopers ("The book, not the movie," I say shaking head in despair) was that to assume the responsibilty of a citizen you must demonstrate an abiltiy to sacrifice self for the greater good.  The idea here is that the authority one is given must be in balance with the responsibilty they feel to the group.  To this end the vote giving service need not involve violence, only personal sacrifice in service to a group. 

Administering this sort of system seems inprobable when we lack any sort of social engineering.  I mean, we still have incapable adults raising children in appaling manners.  Singapore's compulsory vote seems like a good transition point to segway into something more dynamic in the future.

 

[R031button]

My friends and I have debated this quite frequently, and we all range from left to right in vairying degrees. Most of us are in the belief that Nation Service should come into play. The system we all came to agreement on was something like this;

At the age of 17 your sent a package announcing you have to start national service. Inside the package would be a booklet with a variety of militia and civil  trades  relating to national security such as SAR workers, Ambulance Drivers, and various Militia(ie: purely defensive force) positions. People choosing those options would be "in" until the age of 45, during this time they would be required only to go on a 2 month long training course at the beginning, and a single one week course every year. This would not be the only option, however. Alternatively one could join the Reserves for a set period of time, become a professional and work in a public service(crown prosecuter or defense, public health care worker), serves in the Regular Forces, service in the RCMP, or the Coast Guard. Effectively, as long as you are spending a period of a few years serving Canada, everything is fine. Now, as a last resort, and if you disagree to serve, you loose your claim to free public service, ie: no police service, ambulance service, hospitals or welfare. In this system no body would have a political/religious/moral reason  not to serve, as any form of service, no necessarily military, is available.

We also think that every healthy body on welfare should be put in apartment complexes and given a job working in a factory building supplies for Canada, that way they're giving back, can get the help they need(like a SIN number), and have an incentive to get off of it.

 

[sinblox]

Why?

Don't we have enough people who want to join the military but are getting "jerked" around by long enlistment periods? There's no way the CF could handle a huge onslaught of troops when it's having so many problems training the ones it has now.

Why should someone need to join a civil service anyway? I think we have enough people already trying to be RCMP officers and join the military etc that we don't need to do something like that. What if someone wants to be an artist?

And the idea of a military-to-vote system is fascist. What if someone is morally opposed to war? It's a valid opinion and you're cutting them off from their fundamental right because of their opinion. The political process is meant to represent everybody, not just those who join the army. And what if you're disabled and can't?

We're Canada, we're not fascists and we're not a military country.

[and just so nobody thinks I'm some left wing hippy, I'm a reservist right now transferring into regular force combat arms]

(Moderator edit:  profanity corrected.)

 

[nULL]

Congratulate your left wing friends comrade, they have gotten their corrupt conservative assocaties to agree on the makings of a socialist utopia where everyone worls for the common good or has no place in society.

HAHAHAHA YOU FOOLS TOMORROW MORNING WE MARCH TO POLAND

 

[Brad Sallows]

Pay.  Rations.  Accommodations.  Weapons.  Ammunition.  Equipment.  Training areas.  Putting people who already do the "national service" jobs out of work.

Nations used to keep large numbers of conscripts because of perceived threats, not because they needed a way to burn the national treasury surplus.

 

[Pugnacious]

"HAHAHAHA YOU FOOLS TOMORROW MORNING WE MARCH TO POLAND"

Can we stop for a 45 pack of Tim Bitz, and a Coffie first? 

Cheers!
P. ;D