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Women in U.S. infantry (USMC, Rangers, etc. - merged)

Nightly News  |  June 18, 2013

‘Days of Rambo are over’: Women to enter combat roles
Physical standards will not be lowered for women, who will be required to do the same tasks as the men they work alongside. Women have already been battle-tested under enemy fire in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some say if women are given the chance, they’ll make the cut. NBC’s Jim Miklaszewski reports.

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/52246027/#52246027
 
Future role for female special forces ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymC3OWFG9E
 
tomahawk6 said:
Future role for female special forces ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymC3OWFG9E

I wonder if it was coincidence that the ad below the vid was for Vogue magazine.  ;D
 
http://blogs.militarytimes.com/battle-rattle/2013/07/03/two-more-female-marines-fall-short-at-latest-infantry-officer-course/

Two more female Marines fall short at latest Infantry Officer Course
JULY 3RD, 2013 | INFANTRY THE CMC WOMEN | POSTED BY DAN LAMOTHE

QUANTICO, Va. — From the moment before dawn that we stepped out of our vehicles in the woods here, it was plainly obvious it would be a long, demanding day in the wilderness.

Tuesday marked the beginning of the latest iteration of the Infantry Officer Course, the Marine Corps’ demanding 13-week course that determines who leads infantry Marines in combat. IOC has been in the news frequently over the last year as a result of the Women in Service Restriction Review, a Pentagon-directed study that is assessing which additional roles female service members can hold in combat units.

Currently, female Marines are not allowed to hold military occupational specialties in a variety of combat arms jobs, including infantry, artillery, reconnaissance and special operations. Commandant Gen. Jim Amos decided last year to use IOC to conduct research about whether the Corps should open some of those fields, but only 10 female lieutenants have stepped forward to try it.

The latest two of those 10 stepped off with 77 other Marine lieutenants before dawn. Like all but one of their female predecessors, the women attending this IOC eventually fell short of passing the initial Combat Endurance Test, a grueling examination of physical strength and decision-making under duress. The one exception attended last fall, passing the CET before a stress fracture in her foot forced her to bow out of training about a week later.

One of the women this time was among six lieutenants pulled from the course for falling behind schedule to the point that they could not pass the course. The other woman did better, making it to the end but not doing well enough overall to meet the course’s standards, said Maj. Scott Cuomo, director of IOC. Six men fell into that category, as well.

Additionally, five more male lieutenants who attempted the course asked for a “drop on request,” or DOR, which disqualifies them from completing IOC. All told, 61 Marine lieutenants passed the initial Combat Endurance Test, and 18 failed.
The women seemingly failed primarily due to struggles with upper body strength. In one example, they both struggled to climb a 20-foot rope required twice. One Marine made it all the way up it once, but could not do it again. The other woman — and a couple men — were unable to make it up the rope one time.

As many Marine Corps Times readers are aware, I was challenged in April by the commandant to take this version of IOC as a participant after he took exception to a previous headline suggesting the two female volunteers at the last IOC “flunked.” I initially accepted the invitation, but several days later we mutually agreed that the more prudent measure would be covering the initial Combat Endurance Test as an embedded observer. Doing so seemed like the best way to see what occurred without becoming a distraction to the mission at IOC.

My experience Tuesday as an observer tells me it would have been damn near impossible to pass the Combat Endurance Test without months of training beforehand. For starters, it requires land navigation skills, the strength and agility to negotiate a series of difficult physical events and the know-how to put together a variety of weapons organic to an infantry unit, including the M249 squad automatic weapon, the M4 carbine and the M2 .50-caliber machine gun.

That’s to say nothing of the physical component and the ability to make snap decisions while confused about one’s surroundings and mission. Some lieutenants could be seen wandering through the woods seemingly aimlessly, far from their objectives. At least two lieutenants vomited, and a few ran into some sort of trouble that left them bleeding from the head. Considering it was about 75 degrees and overcast or raining most of the day, the summer elements also certainly could have been worse, too.

A small team of embedded media, other observers and I spent hours traversing the hills, fields, streams and muddy paths of Quantico to track the events. It was impressive watching the majority of the lieutenants perform, and inspiring watching those who struggled almost uniformly refuse to give up. It’s safe to say all of our legs are sore today.

I’d like to thank the commandant and Col. Todd Desgrosseilliers, commander of the The Basic School, which oversees IOC, for having us down. Thanks also to Maj. Cuomo and all of the other officers and enlisted staff at TBS who hosted us.

I’ll have a long-form cover story on Marine Corps Times soon expanding on this issue and offering several related updates.
 
Females in the infantry are a non-starter for me.There are opportunities in artillery[field arty and ADA],armor and aviation.Ann Dunwoody was our first female four star and she was a career logistics officer.I hate the liberal penchant to weaken the Army with their social experimentation.
 
It is fair to let women attempt the selection program. Equality in the opportunity to succeed is the benchmark we as a society should maintain.

Kudos to the USMC for maintaining their standards, and not bowing to social forces.

 
Rider Pride said:
It is fair to let women attempt the selection program. Equality in the opportunity to succeed is the benchmark we as a society should maintain as a benchmark.

Kudos to the USMC for maintaining their standards, and not bowing to social forces.

More so is the transparency they are displaying by allowing the media to observe.

If a female can pass that course, she deserves to be there.
 
Crantor said:
If a female can pass that course, she deserves to be there.

Agree, If standards are the same, and a female passes, she should be good to go.  On the topic of physical attributes or lack there of in females compared to males, the top womens competitors in the CrossFit Games (both at the regional level and the finals) are ridiculously strong.  Even though in that venue there are prescribed differences for men and women, a large number of average guys out there would be hard pressed to beat someone like Annie Thorisdottir or Camile Leblanc-Bazinet at the womens prescribed standards. 

I think when more women get past the phallacy and mental hurdle that hard heavy training will turn them into gigantor female Arnolds, then we will see more attempts (in the US) to go for this course and others.
 
Hatchet Man said:
.... I think when more women get past the phallacy and mental hurdle that hard heavy training will turn them into gigantor female Arnolds, then we will see more attempts (in the US) to go for this course and others.
I see what you did there ....
 
What is the purpose of allowing female's to become infantry officers ? There are plenty of other job categories that women can fill.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite
 
tomahawk6 said:
What is the purpose of allowing female's to become infantry officers ?

What is the purpose of not allowing them to become infantry officers? How is different from allowing a black man or a gay man or an (insert random identifiable group here) to become an infantry officer? If the individual meets the standard, they meet the standard.
 
ballz said:
What is the purpose of not allowing them to become infantry officers? How is different from allowing a black man or a gay man or an (insert random identifiable group here) to become an infantry officer? If the individual meets the standard, they meet the standard.

And as long as everyone meets the same standard, you're bang on. Black, white, yellow, purple, orange, woman, man: If you meet the requirements, and pass the course you're in. Opening up trades to women doesn't mean the sky will fall much like the end of DADT didn't cripple the morale of the US military.
 
tomahawk6 said:
What is the purpose of allowing female's to become infantry officers ? There are plenty of other job categories that women can fill.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/12/12684555-women-in-the-infantry-forget-about-it-says-female-marine-officer?lite

Her article has supporters and detractors, but Petronio said she’s just relating her own experience to avoid any sort of blanket policy that could end up putting lives in peril.

“People just think I’m just closed minded and I’m a sexist and I’m not looking to expand opportunities for females,” Petronio told msnbc.com. “And that is absolutely not true. There are a lot of jobs in the Marine Corps right now that could be open to females. My big point is there needs to be a distinct line when it comes to the infantry.”

It sounds to me like she's taking her own negative experience and projecting it as what will happen for all females put in the same situation. Not everyone would have the same experience that she had. So just because she had a difficult situation physically, all women should just forget about it and do something other than infantry.

Here's a thought, maybe they should go into an Engineer trade instead. Not as rigorous and physically demanding as the infantry apparently. Especially when you get into a combat situation. She was and engineer, that is a good alternative for the women that want to go into the infantry, but really shouldn't.

Perhaps she need to take a walk through the Marine Corps Museum store and buy one of their T-Shirts to remind herself "Pain is just weakness leaving the body".
 
On a related note,Army special operations is recruiting women to fill pilot and mechanic positions.

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20130711/CAREERS/307110005/Spec-ops-aviation-unit-seeks-female-pilots-mechanics
 
tomahawk6 said:
What is the purpose of allowing female's to become infantry officers ? There are plenty of other job categories that women can fill.

That's the same line of thinking when people wouldn't let women be doctors, lawyers, cops, truck drivers, etc etc etc.

If they meet the standard, they should be allowed in.  Just don't change the standard.  That's where I have an issue.  When you create a standard and lower the bar for accomodation purposes.
 
Crantor said:
That's the same line of thinking when people wouldn't let women be doctors, lawyers, cops, truck drivers, etc etc etc.

If they meet the standard, they should be allowed in.  Just don't change the standard.  That's where I have an issue.  When you create a standard and lower the bar for accomodation purposes.

It's not about equal rights in my opinion. We are built differently. From my understanding the Infantry are trained to go in and take out the enemy. If it came down to hand to hand combat to the death, who are you putting the money on? The 6'3 220lbs guy who completed an obstacle course or the 140lb 5'4 woman who completed the same course. That's not being sexist, it's reality.

Just because a girl can fight in ultimate fighting, it doesn't mean they are going to let the girls fight the guys. Why do you think that is? Are they being sexist? That's not to the death. Sure passing an obstacle course is a test of your grit, endurance, upper strength and so forth and if you pass it like everyone else you have the right to be in that role. The only thing is, if I or any guy over 200lbs was ever going to be in trouble of falling off a wall, roof and or cliff and my partner was a girl with barely enough upper body strength, I could die. Hypothetical as it may be, these are my views and my views only.

 
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