Why we pay Reservists what we do (Including Reg v.s. Cl B v.s. Cl C pay, and Double-Dippin')

[Eye In The Sky]

Have I argued differently?

No but, in the big scheme of things, thats the huge difference IMO.  While you are and did deploy overseas, not all Reservists will/would.  Had you of not said yes to your TAV/Class C, you would not have gone.

 

[Teeps74]

No but, in the big scheme of things, thats the huge difference IMO.  While you are and did deploy overseas, not all Reservists will/would.  Had you of not said yes to your TAV/Class C, you would not have gone.

I also would not have likely been offered a new contract when my last one expired.

Personal opinion. Any of us who take long term employment should be deployable, no option.

 

[aesop081]

My point is that in some cases there is almost zero difference in expectations between Pres on CL B, CL B/A and Reg F...

SOME does not justify wholesale pay equity.

ALMOST means that there are still differences and those differences remain significant.

 

[kratz]

One point that is glossed over is that while a reservist can chose to not accept a contract and still be employed part-time, nobody is mentioning that the RegF member who is handed their release paperwork has the option of joining the PRes or SHR. This is part of the reason for improving CTs between the two elements.

From this perspective, both groups still have an opportunity at earning a wage with the military.

 

[Teeps74]

SOME does not justify wholesale pay equity.

ALMOST means that there are still differences and those differences remain significant.

IMHO both deltas need to be worked on. What reasoning is there for the deltas? I have watched the PRes and Reg F training systems change over the years (and not necessarily for the better... BMQs no longer learn turns on the march?! In favour of history and honours and awards?!).

Further, if we as PRes are not going on at least one deployment, what function are we filling? Those deployments do fill a lot of the training delta very quickly (at least for infantry).

 

[MED_BCMC]

While the idea of a pay raise is nice, it opens the door to a negative possible outcome as well. I know that Reg F organizations have differing levels of Funding available for Class Bs. If the average salary of a reservist goes up, and the funding available does not (I can't expect that it would), some Reservists might find themselves out in the cold (without anyone paying their morgages, so to speak).

As a Reservist, I am completely comfortable paying (or realistically, not receiving) that extra 15% so that I can manage my own career and "postings".

Cheers,

BCM

 

[Teeps74]

Doing a self analysis in this thread, I guess I am reacting to a perceived "we are better..." attitude directed at PRes. Perceptions can be evil, and not always match what the other person is trying to say. So, if I am coming off strong in this thread, that is why.

I have in the past, borne the brunt of the "toon" slurs, and have had to work twice as hard as my Reg F peers just to get half the respect. I have met a fair amount of junk and flotsam in the Reg F on my taskings and tours, just as I have met a fair amount of the same in the PRes.

Yes, there is an institutionalized difference. I do not see the logical reasoning for most of these differences any longer. Especially on the training side. It has always been my contention that us reservists should do at least one operational tour (especially for those wishing to stay in beyond 3 years).

Should we get 100% pay in all instances? I do not think you will find many reserveists that would argue yes. CL A should stay at 85%. Short term CL B and backfills should also stay at 85% IMO.

Long term, should be on CL C with most of the same requirements as Reg F, and ALL of the benifits (we on CL C or B/A are NOT entitled to move of F&E, house hunting trips, or any of that other stuff, and infact live on TD (not IR) while doing pre-deployment training for a mission... Those of us with families are away from our families for a full year +, as opposed just six months (there is no incentive for the duration during pre-deployment away from our families, but we do it anyways)).

 

[blacktriangle]

  I think if the pay was equal, there would be far less people enlisting in the Regular force, and the Reserves would get rather large.
But more money would be great  ;D

I'm a reservist but see it the other way...why should I get the same level of pay for doing an ex or working a class B, when I get to choose my contracts, work oppourtunities etc all while living in a large city. I personally am not a fan of Class B Commandos (lifers) but understand it fills a needed gap, but unless on work up or tour, I see no reason why reservists should make the same as a reg force pers.

If we (the p res) want equal pay, we better be prepared to meet equal hardships.

 

[armyvern]

One point that is glossed over is that while a reservist can chose to not accept a contract and still be employed part-time, nobody is mentioning that the RegF member who is handed their release paperwork has the option of joining the PRes or SHR. This is part of the reason for improving CTs between the two elements.

From this perspective, both groups still have an opportunity at earning a wage with the military.

Sure, they have the option of going ResF ... but into a Class A posn (one night per week) IF there happens to be any vacant posns in whatever ResF Unit ... they certainly are not guaranteed that they'll be going into a Class B posn (full time/short term contract) and, most certainly, not into a Class C (at 100% of their pay).

We can opt out of a tour/task/posting we don't like by putting our release in, but are NOT guaranteed, far from it, even part time service in the local ResF Unit due to ceilings on manning levels. A reservist opting out of a BClass position is still guaranteed at least part-time Class A employment within his local Res Unit ... and ergo opportunity for further Class B (or C) in a position he finds more to his liking.

 

[ark]

Since we are on the subject of pay, can anyone explain me why Class B are paid 7 days/week while they normally work only 5 days? Class A are paid per day of work and do not get that extra "free" pay.

 

[armyvern]

Should we get 100% pay in all instances? I do not think you will find many reserveists that would argue yes. CL A should stay at 85%. Short term CL B and backfills should also stay at 85% IMO.

Long term, should be on CL C with most of the same requirements as Reg F, and ALL of the benifits (we on CL C or B/A are NOT entitled to move of F&E, house hunting trips, or any of that other stuff, and infact live on TD (not IR) while doing pre-deployment training for a mission... Those of us with families are away from our families for a full year +, as opposed just six months (there is no incentive for the duration during pre-deployment away from our families, but we do it anyways)).

Clas B (A) Sup Techs in ResF Units are NOT performing, nor are qualified, to perform the same daily Supply work that their RegF counterparts do daily as part of their trade. Class B(A) in my trade does NOT equal a RegF Sup Techs "daily" jobs.

RegF pers doing pre-deployment trg do NOT receive IR benefits either ... they are in fact Attach Posted or TDd as well. ZERO difference there. And, word up -- shitloads of RegF people are away from their families doing that pre-deployment training as well (and thus rec that TD just like you) and for just as long --- those that find themselves doing pre-deployment trg at their home base where their families are located --- don't get squat above their regular pay.

 

[aesop081]

Yes, there is an institutionalized difference. I do not see the logical reasoning for most of these differences any longer. Especially on the training side.

Training differences are only one aspect. You seem to be disregarding all others. Even the training delata is hard to close. In my old trade the Ql6A was 6 months long. Find me a way to make reservists go on a 6-month  long career course. And  No, an operational tour is not enough to close the difference in every single case, in every single trade.

Long term, should be on CL C with most of the same requirements as Reg F, and ALL of the benifits

I agree.

 

[armyvern]

Since we are on the subject of pay, can anyone explain me why Class B are paid 7 days/week while they normally work only 5 days? Class A are paid per day of work and do not get that extra "free" pay.

Because they are liable to do duties such as "Duty Supply Tech" which involves being on call 24/7 for week-long periods etc while under that B Class contract.

Class A picks and chooses which weekends/nights they report for work. You will not find a Class A pers unlocking the Armoury gates and putting up the flag etc as the "day staff" do.

 

[geo]

There was a time when reservists working on long term contracts (eg: 3 yrs) would have been paid class C
Then again, there was a time when reserve class A pay was less than reserve class B pay.

 

[aesop081]

Since we are on the subject of pay, can anyone explain me why Class B are paid 7 days/week while they normally work only 5 days? Class A are paid per day of work and do not get that extra "free" pay.

Think about that one a few times ok

 

[geo]

Believe me, no one receives "free pay"... ever.
There are always strings attached.

 

[kratz]

Believe me, no one receives "free pay"... ever.
There are always strings attached.

+1. The attached strings have been mentioned in many other threads.

 

[armyvern]

There was a time when reservists working on long term contracts (eg: 3 yrs) would have been paid class C
Then again, there was a time when reserve class A pay was less than reserve class B pay.

Class A pay and Class B pay still differs ...

In that Class B are paid 7 days / week, Class A is only paid for days they actually RFD. That's because Class B is required to RFD "whenever" for the duration of their Class B contract while a Class A pers is not required to do so.

Now, let's look at it this way. Class A work remains the same as it is now --- they get to pick and choose when and what they RFD for. Class B pers also stay the same, they MUST report 5 days per week/must do duties etc while Class A pers do NOT.

All things being equal --- and for arguements sake --- because Class A Suppies do the same job when they choose to report for work Thursday Night as the Class B guy next to them in the QM ... they deserve equal pay and benefits at a rate of 7 days per week too (that's what's being argued by some here for Class B being paid the same rate as RegF <--- that while at work "we are doing the exact same thing").

Never mind the fact that the BClass guy worked from 0730-1600hrs, then again from 1800-2100hrs that day, and the A Class guy worked Thursday night from 1800-2100hrs only. THEY did the EXACT same job during those 1800-2100hrs. Start paying A Class 7 days per week too, at 100% pay ... it's the exact same thing.  :  Seem silly?? It is. The responsibilities and requirements to RFD are NOT comparable, just as they are NOT comparable between RegF and ResF (less those on Class C -- long term Class B in RegF positions).

 

[milley]

If they are overseas, they are on Class C and get the pay/benefits = to a Regular Force mbr.  In Canada, it depends on what position they are in.  Some are Class C (MCDVs come to mind), some Class B and some Class B (A).

Ah, okay, thank you (and you, PO2FinClk). I didn't quite understand the different Class levels, I think I understand it all now, thanks again.

 

[kratz]

There are some valid points  in that Vern. If there is only a NavRes unit nearby and you are a retired medic or AVS tech, there is no position available to you in that unit. I did mention that there is an opportunity to join the PRes though. Just as a PRes takes a rank reduction when they CT, if a retired member wanted employment, they can retrain in the PRes and take on a new MOS. During the initial PRes time in, yes it is class A, but once they are up to speed (unit, training and element dependant) class B and class C opportunities are available.

Reserve CMs have been telling us for years, if you want guaranteed work, join the RegF. So no, there is no expectation of full-time, long term employment for most PRes trades. But those uncertainties are part of acceptance in remaining PRes vice RegF.

As for class A and class B paid differently, they are paid the same. Those class A earn PILL, during their RFD time, while the class B earns annual leave and in many units , ETO or CTO for training nights.  As that time is not discretionary at the unit level, it is not guaranteed.