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Why Europe Keeps Failing........ merged with "EU Seizes Cypriot Bank Accounts"

E.R. Campbell said:
That's all well and good, but what possible "plan" can Prime Minister Tsipras offer, other than default?

The debt is, simply, unmanageable and adding to it, through further bailouts, is just sending good money after bad.

Greece needs to default ... declare bankruptcy ... offer 1¢ on the $ and start again.

I'm not sure Greece can stay in the Euro ... but, in the long term, I'm not sure that Portugal, Spain, Italy and France can, either.

Greece is enroute to being a third world economy; but, hell's bells, it's been headed that way since 1944.

I tend to agree with your view on this. Summers said in the interview that he was guardedly optimistic (although his emphasis was on the guardedly and the optimistic was more pessimistic in tone)

I suspect that Grexit will be inevitable, as the ideologues will prevail. And then we'll see a steady flow of departures from the Euro and the Union, some countries leaving willingly like rats from a sinking ship, others being forced out. and others still leaving because they never wanted to be there in the first place.
 
A collapse of the Eurozone might head off the IMF move to create a dollar alternative,which would be a good thing.
 
I suspect the Tsipras plan is to get kicked out of the Euro.

Given that many Greeks want to stay in the Euro, and enjoy the benefits, and not be humiliated I think Tsipras's best play is to be kicked out and use that to keep the Greeks behind him.

Then he gets to blame the (epithet of choice) and impose whatever solutions he feels are appropriate.
 
This may end up being the best of all possible solutions for the worst of reasons.

Greece going into default will be like lancing a boil and allowing the toxins to drain out. A short, sharp period of pain as very wrenching adjustments are made (the paper of the various other PIIGS will have to be reevaluated, and probably a huge haircut will take place), voters told to "bail in" insolvent banks will rise up agains the politicians who looked the other way while reckless loans were bing made and the debt "overhang" crippling the European and global economy will go up in smoke.

The dangers are multifold, of course, ranging from the "Man on the White Horse" coming to various European countries to save them and massive increases in turmoil in places like the Middle East as the various nations which provide support or restraint are no longer able to intervene, but since the money is no longer there, there will be limits to what the various actors will be able to achieve.

I'm not exactly looking forward to all this, but since the idea of a controlled drawdown doesn't seem possible, we will have to make the best of this situation.
 
Then there is the Greek military.They might decide that socialist rule isnt working out...
 
And now, from Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the Daily Telegraph, the really frightening bit: There is no plan.

Tsipras expected to lose the referendum and resign with honour........

Now the dog has caught the car.

2010-07-27OT65Catch.png




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11724924/Europe-is-blowing-itself-apart-over-Greece-and-nobody-can-stop-it.html

Europe is blowing itself apart over Greece - and nobody seems able to stop it

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras never expected to win Sunday's referendum. He is now trapped and hurtling towards Grexit

By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, Athens 8:35PM BST 07 Jul 2015

Like a tragedy from Euripides, the long struggle between Greece and Europe's creditor powers is reaching a cataclysmic end that nobody planned, nobody seems able to escape, and that threatens to shatter the greater European order in the process.
Greek premier Alexis Tsipras never expected to win Sunday's referendum on EMU bail-out terms, let alone to preside over a blazing national revolt against foreign control.

He called the snap vote with the expectation - and intention - of losing it. The plan was to put up a good fight, accept honourable defeat, and hand over the keys of the Maximos Mansion, leaving it to others to implement the June 25 "ultimatum" and suffer the opprobrium.

• Greece crisis: live
This ultimatum came as a shock to the Greek cabinet. They thought they were on the cusp of a deal, bad though it was. Mr Tsipras had already made the decision to acquiesce to austerity demands, recognizing that Syriza had failed to bring about a debtors' cartel of southern EMU states and had seriously misjudged the mood across the eurozone.
Instead they were confronted with a text from the creditors that upped the ante, demanding a rise in VAT on tourist hotels from 7pc (de facto) to 23pc at a single stroke.

Creditors insisted on further pension cuts of 1pc of GDP by next year and a phase out of welfare assistance (EKAS) for poorer pensioners, even though pensions have already been cut by 44pc.
They insisted on fiscal tightening equal to 2pc of GDP in an economy reeling from six years of depression and devastating hysteresis. They offered no debt relief. The Europeans intervened behind the scenes to suppress a report by the International Monetary Fund validating Greece's claim that its debt is "unsustainable". The IMF concluded that the country not only needs a 30pc haircut to restore viability, but also €52bn of fresh money to claw its way out of crisis.

They rejected Greek plans to work with the OECD on market reforms, and with the International Labour Organisation on collective bargaining laws. They stuck rigidly to their script, refusing to recognise in any way that their own Dickensian prescriptions have been discredited by economists from across the world.
"They just didn't want us to sign. They had already decided to push us out," said the now-departed finance minister Yanis Varoufakis.
So Syriza called the referendum. To their consternation, they won, igniting the great Greek revolt of 2015, the moment when the people finally issued a primal scream, daubed their war paint, and formed the hoplite phalanx.
Mr Tsipras is now trapped by his success. "The referendum has its own dynamic. People will revolt if he comes back from Brussels with a shoddy compromise," said Costas Lapavitsas, a Syriza MP.
"Tsipras doesn't want to take the path of Grexit, but I think he realizes that this is now what lies straight ahead of him," he said.


What should have been a celebration on Sunday night turned into a wake. Mr Tsipras was depressed, dissecting all the errors that Syriza has made since taking power in January, talking into the early hours.
The prime minister was reportedly told that the time had come to choose, either he should seize on the momentum of the 61pc landslide vote, and take the fight to the Eurogroup, or yield to the creditor demands - and give up the volatile Mr Varoufakis in the process as a token of good faith.

"They just didn't want us to sign. They had already decided to push us out"
Yanis Varoufakis

Everybody knew what a fight would mean. The inner cabinet had discussed the details a week earlier at a tense meeting after the European Central Bank refused to increase liquidity (ELA) to the Greek banking system, forcing Syriza to impose capital controls.
It was a triple plan. They would "requisition" the Bank of Greece and sack the governor under emergency national laws. The estimated €17bn of reserves still stashed away in various branches of the central bank would be seized.
They would issue parallel liquidity and California-style IOUs denominated in euros to keep the banking system afloat, backed by an appeal to the European Court of Justice to throw the other side off balance, all the while asserting Greece's full legal rights as a member of the eurozone. If the creditors forced Grexit, they - not Greece - would be acting illegally, with implications for tort contracts in London, New York and even Frankfurt.

They would impose a haircut on €27bn of Greek bonds held by the ECB, and deemed "odious debt" by some since the original purchases were undertaken by the ECB to save French and German banks, forestalling a market debt restructuring that would otherwise have happened.
• The fight to end Greece's Great Euro Depression
"They were trying to strangle us into submission, and this is how we would retaliate," said one cabinet minister. Mr Tsipras rejected the plan. It was too dangerous. But a week later, that is exactly what he may have to do, unless he prefers to accept a forced return to the drachma.
Syriza has been in utter disarray for 36 hours. On Tuesday, the Greek side turned up for a make-or-break summit in Brussels with no plans at all, even though Germany and its allies warned them at the outset that this is their last chance to avert ejection.
The new finance minister, Euclid Tsakalotos, vaguely offered to come up with something by Wednesday, almost certainly a rejigged version of plans that the creditors have already rejected.
Events are now spinning out of control. The banks remain shut. The ECB has maintained its liquidity freeze, and through its inaction is asphyxiating the banking system.
Factories are shutting down across the country as stocks of raw materials run out and containers full of vitally-needed imports clog up Greek ports. Companies cannot pay their suppliers because external transfers are blocked. Private scrip currencies are starting to appear as firms retreat to semi-barter outside the banking system.

"We have to put our little egos, in my case a very large ego, away, and deal with situation we face"
Jean-Claude Juncker

Yet if Greece is in turmoil, so is Europe. The entire leadership of the eurozone warned before the referendum that a "No" vote would lead to ejection from the euro, never supposing that they might have to face exactly this.
Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission's chief, had the wit to make light of his retreat. “We have to put our little egos, in my case a very large ego, away, and deal with situation we face,” he said.
France's prime minister, Manuel Valls said Grexit and the rupture of monetary union must be prevented as the highest strategic imperative. "We cannot let Greece leave the eurozone. Nobody can say today what the political consequences would be, what would be the reaction of the Greek people," he said.
French leaders are working in concert with the White House. Washington is bringing its immense diplomatic power to bear, calling openly on the EU to put "Greece on a path toward debt sustainability" and sort out the festering problem once and for all.
The Franco-American push is backed by Italy's Matteo Renzi, who said the eurozone has to go back to the drawing board and rethink its whole austerity doctrine after the democratic revolt in Greece. He too now backs debt relief.
(L-R) European Central Bank President Mario Draghi, French President Francois Hollande, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi take part in a euro zone EU leaders emergency summit
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras and Italian Matteo Renzi take part in a eurozone EU leaders emergency summit  Photo: Reuters
Yet 15 of the 18 governments now sitting in judgment on Greece either back Germany's uncompromising stand, or are leaning towards Grexit in one form or another. The Germans are already thinking beyond Grexit, discussing plans for humanitarian aide and balance of payments support for the drachma.
Mark Rutte, the Dutch premier, spoke for many in insisting that the eurozone must uphold discipline, whatever the financial consequences. "I am at the table here today to ensure that the integrity, the cohesion, the underlying principles of the single currency are protected. It is up to the Greek government to come up with far-reaching proposals. If they don't do that, then I think it will be over quickly," he said.
The two sides are talking past each other, clinging to long-entrenched narratives, no longer willing to question their own assumptions. The result could be costly. RBS puts the direct financial losses for the eurozone from a Greek default at €227bn, compared with €140bn if they bite the bullet on an IMF-style debt restructuring.
In pics: the human cost of Greece's debt crisis

But that is a detail compared with the damage to the European political project and the Nato alliance if Greece is thrown to wolves against the strenuous objections of France, Italy and the US.
It is hard to imagine what would remain of Franco-German condominium. Washington might start to turn its back on Nato in disgust, leaving Germany and the Baltic states to fend for themselves against Vladimir Putin's Russia, a condign punishment for such loss of strategic vision in Greece.
Mr Lapavitsas said Europe's own survival as civilisational force in the world is what is really at stake. "Europe has not show much wisdom over the last century. It launched two world wars and had to be saved by the Americans," he said
"Now with the creation of monetary union it has acted with such foolishness, and created such a disaster, that it is putting the very union in doubt, and this time there will be no saviour. It is the last throw of the dice for Europe," he said.
 
And on the lighter side ....
THE nation of Greece said sorry to the European Union with a present of an enormous wooden horse.

Left outside the European Central Bank in the dead of night, the horse has now been moved into the ECB’s central lobby where it is proudly on display.

A gift tag attached to the horse, which is surprisingly light for its size and has small holes along the length of its body, suggested that it should be placed in the bank’s vaults overnight to avoid it being targeted by thieves.

Mario Draghi, President of the ECB, said: “How nice of the Greeks to acknowledge the trouble we’ve been put to on their behalf with this wonderful horse, handmade and so large it could hold a dozen double-decker buses.

“The card with it, which had a teddy bear dressed as a hobo on the front, explained that Greece made us this because they don’t have enough money for a present, which brought a tear to my eye.

“However, unless they can somehow find billions overnight then austerity measures must continue.” ....
As they say, beware of gifts bearing Greeks  ;D
 
Greek citizens reacting to the financial crisis. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3153611/It-s-like-Christmas-Wealthy-Greeks-spending-spree-Apple-gadgets-jewellery-fear-ll-lose-cash-banks-collapse.html

'It's like Christmas': Wealthy Greeks go on spending spree for Apple gadgets and jewellery as they fear they'll lose cash when banks collapse
By Nick Fagge In Athens For Mailonline
Published: 15:53 GMT, 8 July 2015 | Updated: 17:06 GMT, 8 July 2015

Wealthy Greeks have embarked on a luxury spending spree amid fears the government will raid their bank accounts to help pay the national debt.

Jewellery, computer and electrical goods store reported record summer sales in the lead up to and following the EU bail-out referendum on Sunday which has put Athens at odds with Berlin and Brussels.

Greeks fear will the EU will force their government to impose a 'haircut' on their bank accounts, taking a percentage of depositor's savings as a one-off tax, in a move similar to conditions imposed on Cyprus following their own financial crisis in 2013.

One shop assistant described the recent shopping spree as like 'Christmas'.

'Thursday, Friday and Saturday were like Christmas,' said shop assistant Andrew, 30, at the Public electronic shop in Syntagma Square, an authorised Apple retailer.

'People are afraid that the bank will take their money and they came out to spend it ahead of the EU finance meeting in Brussels.

'People are very scared. The majority thought they had three days to spend their money before the bank was forced to hand it over to the government.

'We sold almost twice as much as usual... People were buying laptops, PCs, tablets, iPhones, that was all.'

Jewellery shop owner Maria-Ellie Xanthopoulous said her clients would rather spend their money than have it taken from their bank accounts by the government.

'For the past six months we had almost no customers, but on Saturday, Monday and Tuesday we had a number of clients come in and spend money,' said Mrs Xanthopoulous, 56, whose family have been selling jewellery from the shop since 1890.

'We did not sell as much as electronic shops but for us it was good business.

'One or two of my clients said they would rather spend their money on beautiful things that let the banks take it away from them.

“For the past six months we had almost no customers, but on Saturday, Monday and Tuesday we had a number of clients come in and spend money ”

Maria-Ellie Xanthopoulous, jewellery shop owner

'Clients have been spending between €5,000 and €8,000 a time.'

Meanwhile Greeks continue to queue for hours at bank ATMs to withdraw their daily cash allowance, which has been forced down to €50 a day.

One bank account holder told MailOnline: 'We are supposed to be able to withdraw €60 a day but there are no €20 notes left in the machines so you can only take out €50... It is the same everywhere – there are only €50 notes in the ATMs.'

Greek junior finance minister Dimitris Mardas refused to rule out a 'bank account haircut' would be imposed on the nation during a radio interview yesterday Wednesday.

In 2013 Cyprus forced residents and businesses to give up to 47.5 per cent of their bank deposits above €100,000 as part of an EU bail-out agreement.

Safety-box deposit firms have reported a huge increase in demand with wealthy Greeks storing their cash and other valuables anywhere other than their bank.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3153611/It-s-like-Christmas-Wealthy-Greeks-spending-spree-Apple-gadgets-jewellery-fear-ll-lose-cash-banks-collapse.html#ixzz3fKMeFTtJ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
It's bloody criminal what they are doing.  The "haircut" is utter bullshit, punishing the successful for their own sins.

But, if it were me, I'd be buying cigarettes and nylons for use as currency...
 
Another day, another NPR discussion on the Greek Crisis.

This time the discussion was about how Greece may be playing the strong hand, knowing that the rest of Europe is fearful of an end result of Grexit where the remaining weak economies decide that they do not want to go through the painful process which Greece is currently suffering. Spain, Portugal, Italy and France may see benefit in letting Greece go in that they can pull up stakes and roll up the tent on the Euro and the union.

Which is much the same reason that the stronger economies (ie Germany) is taking it's stance, in fear that if they do give Greece a write down of write off, then Spain, Portugal etc. will all be demanding the same.

Someone should come up with a name to describe this type of situation where you do one thing, you get a crappy outcome, but if you do the opposite, you still get a crappy outcome. Maybe write a book or make a movie about it.  ;D
 
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Clotho Lachesis Atropus

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Urd Verdandi Skuld

You plays your money and you takes your chances.
 
Technoviking said:
It's bloody criminal what they are doing.  The "haircut" is utter bullshit, punishing the successful for their own sins.

But, if it were me, I'd be buying cigarettes and nylons for use as currency...
Not to mention gold & chocolate, no?
 
cupper said:
Someone should come up with a name to describe this type of situation where you do one thing, you get a crappy outcome, but if you do the opposite, you still get a crappy outcome. Maybe write a book or make a movie about it.  ;D

How about, "Catch 22??"
 
National Post editor-in-chief Diane Francis says it out loud, via Twitter:
#grexit will lead to a military dictatorship in Greece again, maybe the only way to discipline and morality #euro
 
Greece to sell Cyprus to the turks for 100% debt relief?*


*Never been to Cyprus and have no idea of the actual political situation.
 
I don't think the Turks have that kind of money. They could rent the Greek army to Saudi to fight in Yemen.
 
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