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Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

Hey,

This Legion stole my idea!!!  This is the wave of the future;

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/legion/stories/2010/04/30/13778436.html

Seems the Calgary Sun did an excellent series on the Legion.

dileas

tess


 
I always thought the no headwear rule was because it was a mess-type atmosphere, but I didn't know why.  Apparently from the above it's as a respect to the Queen, but as a Pte no Sgts ever told me that when I walked into the mess; they just yelled at me to take my beret off.
 
Petamocto said:
I always thought the no headwear rule was because it was a mess-type atmosphere, but I didn't know why.  Apparently from the above it's as a respect to the Queen, but as a Pte no Sgts ever told me that when I walked into the mess; they just yelled at me to take my beret off.


I was told, well before entering a mess.

I think the Sgt. Yelled at you because you walked into the wrong mess, not because of your head dress being on.... ;)

dileas

tess
 
The Legion offerred a quiet, dark bar to unwind in on your way home from work. Sort of like a buffer zone. With the kind of pictures I like up on the walls. 
Then, wash up, change your clothes and drive out to the Airport strip. Go up the elevator to the lounge. Enjoy your cigarette and drink in peace and quiet. Glass all around. You could see the city lights and watch the planes coming in. They were always having dances out there in the hotel ballrooms.
Like the Legion, most of those places have fallen on hard times. Turned them into sports bars. There is also competition from 24/7 slot machines.

Regarding men taking their hats off. I remove mine as a mark of respect when entering any dwelling. Or, any joint where the chairs are not bolted to the floor. That includes a Legion. Sunglasses come off too.
Always in the presence of a woman.
These days, that sort of thing is like the Cole Porter song, "Anything Goes!"  :)
 
the 48th regulator said:
...you walked into the wrong mess, not because of your head dress being on...

Understood that you were joking, but some of my drunkest moments ever were in the basement of a Reserve mess as a ______ year-old recent QL3 graduate.

I left the age blank because I joined as soon as I was able to, and we all know how long it takes to get QL3 qualified in the Mo.  Can't be getting that unit in trouble!
 
I thought everybody was old enough to have a beer, Petamocto!
 
Here, all head dress is prohibited in all RSLs, even if religious. Everyone listens and obeys the regulations, all without a hitch, and the RSL clubs continiue to thrive.  If the RCL thinks that relaxing their hat regs is going to change things, we'll they are simply fooling themselves.  I view the RCL as a 21st century Titanic, all too little, too late. Who's fault? Their fault in a mix of arrogance, ignorance, denial, and plain blind stupidity for not seeing the writing on the wall 30 years ago.

OWDU
 
I think the biggest irony is that Canada bends over backwards to accommodate everyone (re: minorities/religions, etc) but it is the US who is starting the Merry Christmas = Happy Holidays trend.  Thank god/allah that hasn't started here yet.

Of all the things that these old Veterans need before they die, it's not another kick in the balls.  If the WW2 guys are going to complain about hats in the mess, why in the hell would we change that rule while they are still alive to see it?  That's pretty disrespectful, at least wait another 5-10 years.
 
Petamocto said:
I think the biggest irony is that Canada bends over backwards to accommodate everyone (re: minorities/religions, etc) but it is the US who is starting the Merry Christmas = Happy Holidays trend.  Thank god/allah that hasn't started here yet.

I like what Ben Stein had to say about respect for others:
http://www.benstein.com/121805xmas.html
 
That is hilarious!

"It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, "Merry Christmas" to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto."
 
wildman0101 said:
mario mike (if i remeber corectly yes there
was a cf association before the rcl) will
rescope that...

British Empire Services League B.E.S.L. is still carved in stone, over the front entrance, on some of the original buildings, such as Branch 46 Swansea.

1949 photo caption: "Swansea branch of the Canadian Legion which meets here, has decided to apply for a license to sell beer, according to President C.E. Wright. He said members were 'driven to it by attitude of villagers.' " 
The report says the Vice President "resigned in protest". It goes on to say that the Branch had contacted over 20 firms. But, they refused to give the Legion a mortgage. They could only get a mortgage on the condition that a beer licence was applied for.
The Reeve of Swansea said council was against the Legion having a beer licence.  It is an interesting article about post-war veterans and the community.

Sometime after the attached photo was taken, a Cenotaph was placed out front. Other than that, I think the inside and outside remain very true to original.

Attached between the two photos is a pdf of a 1949 story in the Star about Branch 46 ( constructed as a BESL in 1927 ) trying to get a licence to sell beer in Swansea.  Swansea - High Park voted to remain dry until 10 Nov 1997. The nearby Junction would have to wait until late 2000 to go wet. The Branch however was licenced.

 
Royal Commonwealth Ex-Services League
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Royal Commonwealth Ex-Services League was founded in 1921 as the British Empire Services League by Field Marshal Earl Haig and Field Marshal Jan Smuts in order to link together ex-service organizations from throughout the British Empire. It was renamed the British Commonwealth Ex-Services League (BCEL) in 1958 and then the Commonwealth Ex-Services League (CEL) in 2002. The appellation "Royal" was granted by royal assent in 2003. The RCEL has 57 member organizations from 47 Commonwealth and former Commonwealth nations.

The RCEL's affiliates include:

The Royal Canadian Legion (founded as the Canadian Legion of the British Empire Services League)
Royal New Zealand Returned and Services' Association
Returned and Services League of Australia
The Royal British Legion
Indian Ex-Services League
[edit] External links
Royal Commonwealth Ex-Services League
RCEL: For Service And Honour by Jennifer Morse published in Legion Magazine, November 1, 2008.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commonwealth_Ex-Services_League"
Categories: Veterans' organizations | Commonwealth Family | Military veterans' affairs in the United Kingdom


 
wildman0101 said:
waiting sheik

sheikyerbouti has not been logged in since 10:22 p.m. on 20 April 20, 2010.  You may have to be patient if you want a response.

 
pbi---- rcl racist anti-everything(explain)
(expand) id like to hear your explanation
for that comment... really i would as im
german descent(canadian) scot-descent
(canadian)or every thing else racist/anti-
everything) in other words puppy put up
and explain that comment or shut the
f*** up... you got a prob with that pvt
me...

Wildman: thanks for calling me a puppy: makes me feel young again. It's been a while since I've been inside a Legion as a member: the tone of your post reminded me why it'll probably be quite a long while before I'm ever in one again.

Cheers
 
mariomike said:
Hopefully, it doesn't end up on E-Bay. There was a similar story about items in a private museum being auctioned off on the Net.

I pretty sure this is the story you were referring to:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/780267--veterans-families-angry-over-bid-to-sell-wartime-artifacts?bn=1

Before someone should have the idea of donating artifacts, they should first consider the
possible end result of where they are making that donation. Military musuems are probably
the best place to donate items as they are properly catalogued and cared for.

The legion in my area is occupied by the staff of the federal penitentiary. I made application to that branch a few years ago and
never recieved a reply from them. I have not gone back.
A lot of ex-military personnel, being relatively young go right into a second career and are therefor preoccupied with their new life.
Some even consider their miltary life as "in my past".
Perhaps as they grow older they will take a liking to playing cribbage, shuffleboard, darts, etc, and reconnecting with old comrads.
As far as I'm concerned, there will always be a place for the legion in our society.
Thanks for reading me.


























 
Old Sweat said:
Cripes, we must be lucky here in a little town south of Ottawa. Mind you, we experienced troops working in our area during the ice storm, so that may have had an effect on local attitudes. The fact that we are a bedroom community for Ottawa and have a lot of members from all three services (and the ski team) living here does not hurt. We also lost a local lad in Afghanistan and his picture is on the wall in the Legion Hall. Another local was wounded a few tours back and there is at least soldier from here in country now. The local branch requests a contingent from Petawawa for each Remembrance Day and hosts them after the parade. Last year I spent a fair amount of time with the OC and CSM of a company from 3 RCR, who brought their troops down. Both made a point of saying how much they enjoyed coming to our town. While I am not a member of the legion, I support many of their events and have not experienced any disdain towards those still serving. Or maybe I am just too thick to notice.
Not sure if we're speaking of the same place, but I plan on joining when I get back home.  I never wanted to join until becoming a veteren but spent a fair bit of time under it's roof.  It may not be the hot spot for the kids but it's definitely the social hall of the community and I could not even began to count how many stags, wedding receptions, banquets, wakes, birthday/anniversary, and fund raisers I have attended there. 
 
I had known of this story for some years, but without a reference had refrained from posting any comments on it.

Thanks to a member of another forum I frequent, it is available to me now and fitting for this thread on closing Legions.

Military collectors prove their medal
Tue, May 4, 2004

By EARL McRAE, Ottawa Sun

"It made me want to cry," says Andrew Driega, remembering. "It was terrible." He shakes his head morosely. "He came in and said they didn't want any vultures profiting off the death of soldiers. I wanted to say 'You don't understand, buddy, you don't get it -- the ones who'd have bought them are serious collectors and they'd have kept them, protected them, and cherished them.' "

And then, wryly: "If they hadn't destroyed them, they probably could have paid off the debt and saved their legion."

Andrew Driega, 40, is sitting at a desk behind a long glass showcase in his shop on Richmond Rd. It's called Ashbrook Coins, Stamps, Antiques, and Collectibles. He buys and he sells.

The Royal Canadian Legion branch was in the Ottawa Valley. Behind glass on one of its walls were countless sterling silver crosses -- the Canadian Memorial Cross -- awarded to the mothers or next of kin of Canada's soldiers killed in war. The many crosses had been donated down through the years to this particular legion branch for proud display. The branch hit hard times, and went bankrupt.

"He had them all in a bag," says Driega. "Someone with the legion had deliberately taken a hammer to them and destroyed them beyond recognition. They were all mangled. He wanted to sell them to me for the value of the junk silver content. They weren't crosses anymore. I gave him about $2 for each of them. Had they not been destroyed, he'd have got about $100 for each of them."


People come into Driega's shop every day selling and buying military medals that once decorated the uniforms of soldiers who served in war, some of those soldiers having been members of the very families selling them and, in extremely rare cases, veterans themselves have come in with medals to sell they'd once so honourably earned.

Driega is required by law -- "In case the police learn they'd been stolen" -- to immediately report all of his purchases to the police and to hold the medals for a month before officially releasing them to buyers.

It hasn't happened often, says Driega, but he has purchased, and sold, service medals brought in by current Canadian soldiers, those who've served in Bosnia, Afghanistan, Cyprus, the Gulf.

'A QUICK 100 BUCKS'

"I guess they think it's a good way for them to make a quick 100 bucks," says Driega. "Especially when they know the military, just one time, allows them a replacement medal for free. But, since they report to the military that their medal was lost or stolen, they have to be careful they don't get discovered."
Driega picks up his medals catalogue.

"Everything I sell walks through the door. There's so much demand for medals, it's insane, especially those from World War I and earlier. There are a lot of collectors of militaria out there. They're sold literally within hours of me buying them, especially the high-end ones, the ones for bravery in combat."

These would include the Military Medal, the Military Cross, the Distinguished Conduct Medal, the Distinguished Service Medal, the Distinguished Flying Cross. Driega, in his more than two decades of business, has had them all brought in off the street to be sold to him, his resale price ranging from $3,500 (DCM, DSM) to $500 (MM, World War I).

He has never had anyone come selling the world's most prestigious military medal of them all for valour -- the Victoria Cross. "That one," he says, checking in his catalogue, "goes for a minimum $100,000." He smiles. "Some I will entertain price negotiations, others I won't."

Other medals he sells are regular campaign and service medals, such as that before him on his desk, the Afghanistan Medal, from the second Afghan war of 1878-1880 that he bought for $300 from a descendant of a British soldier in that theatre, and will likely sell for $450.

But what kind of person is it, I ask, who'd want to get rid of such treasured symbols of deserved glory; does it not bespeak extreme financial hardship on the part of the seller, or cold, callous, insensitivity, regardless of some so-called "need" for money?

NO 'ATTACHMENT'

"It's almost always someone who has been left them, or, say, found them in a box," says Driega. "Sometimes someone of this generation, a family member of the recipient but who has no emotional attachment to them, no connection, and they don't know what to do with them, but don't want to throw them away."

I tell Driega that I, personally, could never, no matter the circumstances, sell military medals earned by anyone in my family, no matter how far back.

"I couldn't either," he says.

 
Yep, way to go legion.  Finding ways to draw in the newer generation of Vets....



Uphill struggle for vets

By Bill KAUFMANN, Calgary Sun

Last Updated: July 8, 2010 11:33pm

It seemed a perfect match for both, particularly a large organization literally dying to get new blood into its increasingly sclerotic veins.

And it’s also a sad commentary on Canada’s misbegotten adventure in Afghanistan and the gaps left in its ex-warriors’ safety net.

Years after his life was altered by going to the rescue of Canadian soldiers hit by a U.S. aerial bomb in Afghanistan, one-time PPCLI Shaun Arntsen concluded that work wasn’t finished.

Back on civvy street, Arntsen figured taming other veterans’ Post Traumatic Stress Disorder demons that he, too carried since that fateful night could be done through wilderness bonding.

The dream was born as was a golden opportunity for a greying Royal Canadian Legion to bond with a younger generation of veterans.

Last year, the Legion — which supports many worthy charitable causes — stepped up with funding for the vision and scored a rare coup with the young IED dodgers.

Officials at one legion branch after another have been hard-pressed to point to any card-carrying Afghanistan returnees in their midst.

They’re the one breed of veteran whose numbers are too thin to merit an entry in the organization’s membership stats.

It wasn’t many days ago that Arnsten felt that shortcoming could be reversed, if the trend that brought him and fellow vet Marc D’Astous into the legion fold continued.

And the Outward Bound-affiliated pilot program had been active with ice climbing and hiking excursions in the Banff-Canmore area.

But last week, local Legion officials terminated Arntsen’s leadership of the program, apparently with the agreement of Outward Bound.

This isn’t about Arntsen, “it’s about the veterans and we have a fall schedule,” says legion district President Daryl Jones.

But it’s a decision that’s drawn the ire of not only Arntsen but Afghan vets who say their doubts about the Legion’s relevance have only deepened.

It may not be an intentional attack on that younger generation of soldiers, but the symbolism of the move has the same effect, says Arntsen.

“It’s sad for me to see this — it’s got so much potential,” says Arnsten.

The Afghan vet said he’s been accused of creating the program to massage his ego and to assure himself a job, with helping fellow vets an afterthought.

Arntsen was offered the option of working as an unpaid volunteer, he added, something the third-generation soldier rightly refused.

“My grandfather who served in World War Two did a lot to set up the Legion in his part of Saskatchewan,” he says.

None of that matters; Arntsen says his overseers are replacing his leadership with civilians who lack the savvy and sensitivities vital in dealing with combat veterans that only their peers possess.

I’ve never attended any of these veterans’ outdoor excursions and can’t vouch for their quality, though Arntsen insists clients rate it highly.

It does raise wider questions over how our latest crop of veterans are perceived in a country with such an ambiguous view of the Afghan debacle.

Arntsen probably sees a symmetry in allies dropping bombs on him near Kandahar and figurative ones at home.

We’re nowhere near understanding or appreciating the complexities of PTSD and many of our broken veterans accuse the military of the same thing.

Now we’re seeing a squabble over how to help them.

Far sadder yet is that we’ve sentenced so many of our soldiers to mental trauma that’ll linger far beyond our forces’ Afghan departure, and maybe as long as the Taliban persist.

We can only hope our prime minister honours his vow to end the mission next year.

bill.kaufmann@sunmedia.ca

Copyright © 2010
Calgary Sun All Rights Reserved
 
As a military member who has retired as of last year, when I went to our local Legion here in Trenton, last year after being on parade, we were not met with open arms at all.  We couldn't even find a seat and didn't even know where we could get lunch as I was not familiar with this building. We felt very unwelcome and sad to say will not join.
 
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