Whither the Royal Canadian Legion? Or RCL Withers?

[The Bread Guy]

Um check about 15 posts up in this thread, or have you been supping the tequila amigo. 8)

To be fair, it was posted in a separate thread, and brought in here.

As to the supping of tequila, can't say .....

 

[Journeyman]

And he is in a different time zone; in BC it's still 1987. 

 

[daftandbarmy]

To be fair, it was posted in a separate thread, and brought in here.

As to the supping of tequila, can't say .....

Hey hey hey... since when was 'being fair' a part of the deal here? If you have to be fair to me then i can't have any fun ripping into other people either!  ;D

 

[The Bread Guy]

Cherished photos are packed away, the dance hall is long silent and the lights are about to be turned off for the last time in the auditorium of Royal Canadian Legion Branch 001 Regina.

By the end of January, the downtown building that has welcomed veterans since 1947 must be empty.

The property has been sold and the entire rear of the building -- which houses the Atlantic Auditorium, the Lancaster Lounge and the Dieppe Cafeteria -- is to be demolished to make way for a parkade.

Only the facade will remain with room for a museum and a small watering hole.

"That sounds terrible and it just rips me right apart to lose the heritage of this in the back," said branch president Terry Duncan.

"The only heritage part, so to speak, is the front. But to lose the history of the back portion of this building, it just rips me apart. But it's got to be done if we want to be in existence for the veterans that remain, for those that are coming back and for the families of the veterans."

Branch 001 was the first branch of the Royal Canadian Legion to receive a charter. The top portion of the building was completed in 1951 and officially opened by then-Princess Elizabeth.

Legions began as places of camaraderie for large numbers of veterans from the First and Second World Wars.

In its heyday, Royal Canadian Legion Branch 001 Regina had as many as 2,500 members.

But Duncan noted there aren't any living First World War vets, Second World War vets are well into their 80s and 90s and Korean vets are into their 80s as well.

The branch currently has between 400 and 450 members.

"They were all the same people and they felt different than the rest of the population and they needed a place to congregate," explained Duncan, who joined the legion 42 years ago to honour his grandfathers, his father and his uncles, who all served.

"Now, we still have veterans coming back from our different wars and conflicts and peacekeeping, but it's a different society. They're not joining the legions, not all of them ... It's not the same numbers."

Duncan said there was little choice but to sell as revenue dwindled.

"We were in a position where we were going to have to consider closing the doors because without donations we weren't able to keep the bills paid. And that's not been recent, that's been history. That goes back quite a few years," he said.

"We researched all avenues. We tried to get investors to come in and keep the building as is and just renovate."

The entire building needed work: everything from plumbing to electrical had to be upgraded.

Duncan said the only group to come forward was a property developer, who plans to build the parking lot.

The front part of the building, the tower, the stained glass windows and murals depicting Canada's military history -- which are covered by a municipal heritage designation -- will remain and are to be renovated ....

The Canadian Press, 6 Jan 13

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest from MP John Rafferty's campaign for federal infrastructure money for Legions:

.... As financially autonomous bodies, funding for individual branches is almost always limited to the public support received by their respective communities. Unfortunately the primary source of revenue, membership dues, has been steadily declining over the past 25 years and now only contributes marginally to the maintenance of these institutions.  Some of this is due to the structure of the organization itself as 90% percent of a single membership fee is relinquished to Dominion and Provincial Command – the overseeing bodies, but other problems are also related to the changing nature of our economy, increased operating costs, and declining membership. Raising fees to counter this problem is a possibility, but it could also deter those interested from becoming members and for branches already facing a slump in membership it is simply not an option.

Today, branches must obtain most of their funding through catering services, fundraising efforts made by the Ladies and Youth Auxiliaries, their bar sales, and by renting out their halls for special occasions. While this allows citizens to become increasingly involved with their Legion and builds a sense of community, individual branches are now forced to compete with restaurants, bars and banquet halls for money. For those struggling with finances much of the money they are able to raise simply keeps them afloat and leaves little room to invest in infrastructure upgrades or renewal.  As these facilities age and structures start to deteriorate fewer people will be inclined to rent these spaces for special occasions which can amplify the financial difficulties at many branches. Many Legions across Canada have fallen victim to these circumstances over the years.

In tabling Motion-417 I called upon the Federal government to address this issue by creating a Royal Canadian Legion Infrastructure Renewal Fund. If implemented, it is my hope that any investment made by individual branches to preserve or enhance their physical infrastructure – such as heating or ventilation upgrades – would be eligible for matching funds by the Federal government. While the Harper Conservatives have provided some federal funding to non-profit community facilities through a Community Infrastructure Improvement Fund (CIIF), this worthwhile but temporary program is set to expire and legions are forced to compete with other organizations for these funds. Of the $150 million designated in the CIIF a total of $144,643 has been provided to four legion branches that have used the money to upgrade their kitchens, replace their roofs, and install new heating and air conditioning units among other fixes.  It’s a good idea, but I think we need a permanent standalone program for legions moving forward ....

 

[Journeyman]

....as 90% percent of a single membership fee is relinquished to Dominion and Provincial Command – the overseeing bodies...

Wow. That sounds an awful lot like extortion; but then, I'm not a Legion member so maybe it's money well-spent -- I can't but have doubts though, based on seeing other bureaucracies in action.

 

[Danjanou]

The latest from MP John Rafferty's campaign for federal infrastructure money for Legions:

Or we could merge some of the half empty branches and sell off the surplus aging buildings which usually sit on prime real estate thereby freeing up millions to keep the branches open and in good repair and at the same time full of people and double the potential gene pool for leadership at election time.

Yeah brought that up Sunday to several higher ups including the Provincial President..... someone want to grab a set of pliers and help pry me off this cross they nailed me to. :

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Not all Legions are that stupid,...Guelph's sold the massive [and I mean massive] buiding they had when the 4 halls merged years ago and built a very nice, modern facility on the back piece of the land that they had severed off for that purpose............

 

[Danjanou]

Not all Legions are that stupid,...Guelph's sold the massive [and I mean massive] buiding they had when the 4 halls merged years ago and built a very nice, modern facility on the back piece of the land that they had severed off for that purpose............

yet another reason to move to Guelph. Care to guess which city's Legions are playing arrange the deckchairs on the Titanic? 8)

 

[The Bread Guy]

Or we could merge some of the half empty branches and sell off the surplus aging buildings which usually sit on prime real estate thereby freeing up millions to keep the branches open and in good repair and at the same time full of people and double the potential gene pool for leadership at election time.

Yeah brought that up Sunday to several higher ups including the Provincial President..... someone want to grab a set of pliers and help pry me off this cross they nailed me to. :

If it's any comfort, you'd get even worse treatment suggesting that kind of heresy here in Thunder Bay, bud.

Not all Legions are that stupid,...Guelph's sold the massive [and I mean massive] buiding they had when the 4 halls merged years ago and built a very nice, modern facility on the back piece of the land that they had severed off for that purpose............

Good to hear.

 

[mad dog 2020]

There is an idea floating around. 

There are alot of post Korean veterans,  Cold War, Gulf, Balkans, Afghanistan. And organized under a united front can have the potential for some influence on political decisions.
There are some concerns that the current Royal Canadian Legion may notbbe properly informed on the concerns of the original mandate or foundation of the inception of the Legion.

There are plenty of other groups, be it Regimental, Branch, Ships company, Motor cycle enthusiasts and UN postings, so the loyalty is there, just unfortunately fragmented. We need to consolidate or amalgamate.

So, we are strongly suggested that the aforementioned individuals at least investigate their Local Branch. Our numbers will swell and we could have some pressure on our future. To join would be ideal.

This would give us venues to have a meetings, rallies, fundraisers or that kitchen party you always wanted. And that option coast to coast.

"Legion is the largest of the many veterans Organizations in Canada with over 330,000 members"


"Legion is rededicated to the care of Canada's veterans and the perpetuation of Remembrance"

"Legion continues pressure on the federal government to improve benefits for those who serve and have served as their needs change"

An important aspect we forget is that in many local emergencies the Legion is the nucleus of response with organized kitchen, dining area and volunteer staff augmenting the Red Cross. Some rural Branches have applied for official status and have auxiliary power provided by EMO.

So, please consider this vision. What with the increasing emergencies. (floods, storms and accidents).

Not to mention the provision of proper direction for our youth via cadets or sports.

 

[Danjanou]

Is it November already? We usually don't have or annual bash the Legion thread until November.

Seriously I see your posting from Toronto, good luck trying to get the newer generation of vets past the gatekeepers of District D and its 27 Branches. These Aging xenophobic "never serveds" will immediately point out you're not a "real veteran" and therefore cannot stand proudly beside those stalwart former members of the 7th and 8th Canadian Infantry Divisions whom they trot out every November to justify the RCLs hallowed place as keepers of cheap beer, meat spins, and 1970's decor and political attitudes oops I mean Remembrance.

Mind they will take the occasional newer vet in, just because they need someone to do all the heavy work including someone who may know basic drill and doesn't require a walker.  However don't expect more than a scattering of these and don't expect them to actually listen to you.  You're there to act as a scape goat when it all goes south due to them preferring to not listen to any advice ( re parades, bookkeeping, social media et cetera et cetera) instead falling back on the "we've been doing it this way for all  my ( insert number of decades here) in the Legion."

Seriously good luck, and I mean that. Me I'm just dealing with the latest piece of infantile bitching form the Blues and Grays set dumped in my lap this morning and wondering why I don't  ceremonially burn my Legion Card and medals for the thousandth time.  Oh that's right I forgot I have to stick around at least until the middle of August. I'm chief cat herder at the Warriors Day Parade this year and that's usually worth a youtube moment.

 

[Sythen]

As much hate as the RCL receive (and I am not saying whether or not its justified), when I was having issues with VAC, one phone call to the RCL basically fixed everything in an astonishingly short time frame. I am not a member of the RCL (though I keep meaning to change that), and they haven't seen a penny from me but they bent over backwards to help me when I needed it. I've seen a lot of discussion on the RCL here, and one recurring theme is why not join and fix it from the inside? If all the "alot of post Korean veterans,  Cold War, Gulf, Balkans, Afghanistan" started joining the Legions, how long until they get sorted out? Seems like starting a different organization just seems to be over complicating the matter.

 

[Nemo888]

Is it November already? We usually don't have or annual bash the Legion thread until November.

Seriously I see your posting from Toronto, good luck trying to get the newer generation of vets past the gatekeepers of District D and its 27 Branches. These Aging xenophobic "never serveds" will immediately point out you're not a "real veteran" and therefore cannot stand proudly beside those stalwart former members of the 7th and 8th Canadian Infantry Divisions whom they trot out every November to justify the RCLs hallowed place as keepers of cheap beer, meat spins, and 1970's decor and political attitudes oops I mean Remembrance.

Mind they will take the occasional newer vet in, just because they need someone to do all the heavy work including someone who may know basic drill and doesn't require a walker.  However don't expect more than a scattering of these and don't expect them to actually listen to you.  You're there to act as a scape goat when it all goes south due to them preferring to not listen to any advice ( re parades, bookkeeping, social media et cetera et cetera) instead falling back on the "we've been doing it this way for all  my ( insert number of decades here) in the Legion."

Seriously good luck, and I mean that. Me I'm just dealing with the latest piece of infantile bitching form the Blues and Grays set dumped in my lap this morning and wondering why I don't  ceremonially burn my Legion Card and medals for the thousandth time.  Oh that's right I forgot I have to stick around at least until the middle of August. I'm chief cat herder at the Warriors Day Parade this year and that's usually worth a youtube moment.

Looks like the"changing the system from the inside," is not going so well. Full respect for making the effort. At least you pokes about them made  me laugh because they cut so close to the bone.

 

[Danjanou]

As much hate as the RCL receive (and I am not saying whether or not its justified), when I was having issues with VAC, one phone call to the RCL basically fixed everything in an astonishingly short time frame. I am not a member of the RCL (though I keep meaning to change that), and they haven't seen a penny from me but they bent over backwards to help me when I needed it. I've seen a lot of discussion on the RCL here, and one recurring theme is why not join and fix it from the inside? If all the "alot of post Korean veterans,  Cold War, Gulf, Balkans, Afghanistan" started joining the Legions, how long until they get sorted out? Seems like starting a different organization just seems to be over complicating the matter.

And that (the highlighted bit) would be the only reason I have yet to walk away in disgust. There is a lot of potential to help veterans in the RCL, its original mandate. A national organization with hundreds of thousands of members could be a bit a political factor in advocating for veterans rights should the present leadership be willing to put on their big boy pants and wade into the morass. The infrastructure is their ready and waiting to embrace newer generations on vets and adapt to their needs and wants.  There is also the money available for various projects, poppy fund etc.

However time is running out. The Legion is akin to the Titanic about 5 minutes after it hit the iceberg and the present leadership are still busy rearranging the deck chairs.  If the O/P really wants to join up in the GTA and/or has others willing to come get in touch with me via PM and I'll point you in the direction of which branches are probably more agreeable to change and/or ripe for a coup.  >


hey Nemo glad I made your day, bro. Come to Warriors Day it's a walt fest.  8)

 

[mad dog 2020]

This is not about a new organization but a remodeling in a more modern decor yet traditional.
A infiltration or coup d'état, I have personally seen the old guard and how much they resemble a welcome wagon (NOT)!
Trying to be positive it is possible sadly enough through attrition.
I already quit one branch locally due to their attitude.  And was ready to cash it in.
Some flat faced civie waltzing around with a drill cane and Sgt at Arms armband (someone's son in law no doubt) looking down on my table of retired CF members.
If you go to FaceBook and look up the group Canadian Veterans Advocacy, there is some hard working people out there and united we stand.
We can go in like 5th coloumists, in the dark of night, no maybe a general meeting and remember majority rules.
So keep those cards and letters coming or going in.
To me Remerance day is year round!
I have been to some Legions like Whitehorse, Kingston, TRENTON, Spryfield, Niagara Falls (New), and Richards Landing where they make you feel welcome.  I met some of the executive of the Brampton Branch at the Honda Indy and they were so friendly and wanted us to stop in if we were ever in the area.
Like a lottery you have to play to win. No tickle no laundry.
And oh how I remember the sad and unwelcoming atmosphere of Hamilton Center Mall.

 

[Danjanou]

I thought this was a result of all those threads on the CVA FB site over the weekend. I know I tossed some naptha of that particular fire with one of my posts.  8)

 

[Rifleman62]

Danjanou, it is

A national organization with hundreds of thousands of members could be a bit a political factor in advocating for veterans rightsLegion Seeking Enhancements for All Veterans from New Minister of Veterans Affairs Canada

The RCL says it is.

July 17, 2013 09:57 ET

VVi 20 Jul 2013 db

OTTAWA, ONTARIO--(Marketwired - July 17, 2013) - Royal Canadian Legion Dominion President, Gordon Moore, is anticipating an early meeting now that the Honourable Julian Fantino has been appointed as the Minister of Veterans Affairs Canada.

"On behalf of the more than 320,000 members of The Royal Canadian Legion, I am looking forward to making significant improvements in Veterans services and programs with the Honourable Julian Fantino as the new Minister of Veterans Affairs Canada," says Moore. "We, on behalf of all Veterans including serving Canadian Armed Forces RCMP members, and their families, encourage the new Minister to implement the review of the New Veterans Charter this fall; specifically, a thorough review of the financial compensation package for those who been injured attributable to their service to ensure its fairness and equity, " he adds.

"We are looking for further improvements to the financial compensation of our injured Veterans which ensures a lifelong quality of life for all injured veterans," he concludes.

Also of particular concern to the Legion are ongoing issues within the Funeral and Burial Benefit Services program including the means test and improvements to the program's accessibility.

The Dominion President will be inviting the new Minister to Legion headquarters for a briefing on the Legion highlighting its service to the Canadian Armed Forces and RCMP members, Veterans, families, youth, Canadian communities, and the Legion's ongoing commitment to promote Remembrance.

Contact Information
Bruce Poulin
Dominion Command
The Royal Canadian Legion
1-613-591-3335 ext. 241
Cell: 1-613-292-8760
bruce.poulin@legion.ca

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/legion-seeking-enhancements-all-veterans-from-new-minister-veterans-affairs-canada-1812024.htm

 

[Danjanou]

I've adopted a watch and shoot stance re these pronouncements, call me cynical. 

Besides imagine how more effective that statement would be if instead of 320,000 ( two thirds of whom have never worn a uniform, often don't attend meetings, never read stuff like that and only fire up the outrage bus when they don't win the meat spin) it included the 500,000 +/- Veterans in this country in this county that are not Legion members .

You go to the Government  of the day and say I have almost a million pissed off organized members from coast to coast and all are registered and will vote and then they actually listen.

BTW for those members of the RCL who have now arrived and are lurking on the site reading this thread. It's easy to figure out whom I am combine the clues I've left and click on my screen name, my real name is in my profile.  8)

 

[manhole]

any organization has both good and not-so-good members.  It's not the organization as a whole, but the individual branches and members who are lacking.  I suggest you try your local ANAVETS Unit (Army, Navy & Air Force Veterans in Canada).  I am the Service Officer for Woodstock Unit #95 and we are the only Unit in NB (at the moment).  For the record, I also belong to Branch #24 Hartland, NB of the RCL.  We rent our meeting site so don't have to worry about a building and associated costs.  Our fund-raising goes to veterans causes, bursaries, and other community projects.  We have short meetings, followed by a social time.  Our members consist of WWII and Korea Veterans, Peace-keepers, Reservists, ex-Canadian Forces members, CIC officers, former cadets, police officers, firefighters, other first responders, and former RCMP members.  We all get along  because we are here to serve the veteran community as a whole and are serving or have served our country with pride.  We support our Canadian Forces and strive to be effective advocates for them as well as any veteran.    We spend a lot of time at area schools  for Flag Day and Veterans Week.  We also are the sponsor for our local Army Cadet Corps. We welcome anyone who is willing to work hard in achieving our goals.  Anyone interested in finding out more about us, send me a PM.