What to do when pulled over by the Police

[Old Sweat]

As I recall, the speed limit on the 400 series highways in Ontario was 70 mph, or roughly 110 kph, in the early 70s. The oil price shock circa 1973 caused the imposition of reduced speed limits in Canada and the US to reduce gasoline consumption. Thus the 400 highways were designed for a traffic flow of over 110 kph, so the speed limit could be raised.

Whether we would do it is another matter. There is a helluva difference in mileage or whatever we call it these days between 100 kph and 110 kph, believe it or not.

 

[Good2Golf]

Zip, isn't 15 the next category?  I thought 1-14 over was the fine-only, points started at 15?  Then again, my last ride along with my neighbour was a few years ago...before he became a "white shirt"!  ;D  My buddt was(is) a Level 4 TTCI and I'd have fun going through his books reading up on the 85th percentile driver and ramp design, while we sat in the median waiting for some piker to come cruising along at 140 and try to blame it on a creeping cruise control  :

G2G

p.s.  I agree with recceguy and Tommy, there are many more factors including overdriving conditions, traffic, etc... than just doing the "safe" speed limit.  Why not ask yourself why a divided highway with concrete barriers between opposite directions is 100 km/h like the 400's while the Trans Canada is 110 km/h single-lane opposing in many places in the prairies?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In my experience, the first 60 seconds of conversation with a driver will decide how lenient an officer will be with said driver.  While walking up to the stopped vehicle, most guys will be watching the head and the hands of the driver, to see if any "furtive moves ' are being made under the seat or the dash.

Not opening the drivers side  window  fully or keeping the officer waiting too long, will all signal a red flag, most of the time.

If the first words from the driver are swear words, or abuse, things just got more serious, If the driver adds to the problem with "no lic " "no insurance " "no registration " and more lip, they will get a "attitude adjustment " . Followed by a in-depth records search and a few Provincial Offence Notices,  and of course, with no lic , they are "walking  home ". Car seized and towed, too. Elapsed time ,    at least  an hour or more, out of the shift.

Jim B. Toronto.

Wxactly treating the officer like a human being goes a long way.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Zip, isn't 15 the next category?

Nope.  16 and over.  15 is the safe mark, or what everyone pleads down to.

Why not ask yourself why a divided highway with concrete barriers between opposite directions is 100 km/h like the 400's while the Trans Canada is 110 km/h single-lane opposing in many places in the prairies?

Because city people are dumb and would annihilate themselves if left to their own devices. 

 

[COBRA-6]

Lame.
Please tell me that you aren't the 110 vigilante that drives in the left lane because "it's fast enough"?  :-\

IMO the speed limit could be raised to 120 with little impact, since that is what people drive anyway.  Special provisions could be made for 400 series highways (and their friends) that stipulate that fines become brutal fairly quickly, and you could ramp up the points starting at 5 over and every 5 after that.  Also require commercial motor vehicles (HTA definition) to remain in the right lane at all times and not be allowed to go faster than 110. 

I think those two conditions are far more dangerous than driving 19+, as others end up passing on the right and weaving between trucks driving in both lanes but moving about the same speed...

 

[241]

I think you are referring to the cosine error that comes from doing radar off the side of the road.  Think Grade 11 math, and x/y coordinates.  The cruiser is usually off the side, so while it is putting out radar/laser pulses it is on a slight angle.  This causes the monitored speed to be slightly lower than the true speed.  In order to get the true speed, you would have to stand out in the middle of the lane and hit the m/v dead on.  That has some obvious safety issues.  Also, the device rounds down fractions of km/h so if you were going 149.9 km/h, it would only read as 149.
So yes, the devices can be inaccurate, but in the favor of the victim motorist.    Also, some officers will drop the number at roadside if they are feeling nice or are working on their karma bank.  15 over is what you want, since it is a pretty small fine, but more importantly it is no points. 

I was actually referring to any mechanical reason that the vehicle speedometer may be out a few km's, not too sure what you where saying there as me and my GED edumaction is lost haha ;D

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I was actually referring to any mechanical reason that the vehicle speedometer may be out a few km's, not too sure what you where saying there as me and my GED edumaction is lost haha ;D

I yer gunna say the machine ain't so accurate, it's true, but in your favour. 

 

[Meridian]

My favourite experience was last year speaking to a friendly Montreal officer who decided to give me a 120$ failure to yield to a stop sign.   

This was on the last day of the month, the officer was a member of the (new) "traffic squad", and was positioned at the 6th stop sign in a row of 8 on a main connector (divided by median) that feeds off to residential streets. Apparently my "rolling stop" was not good enough for him. *sigh*.

All polite and everything, and he sure had me on my way quick - I ended up actually being lost, and as I returned back the other direction not 3 minutes later, he had already pulled over another victim at the exact same spot. A good day for the city coffers.    I particularly appreciated the "Victims Fund Contribution."

 

[George Wallace]

I was actually referring to any mechanical reason that the vehicle speedometer may be out a few km's, not too sure what you where saying there as me and my GED edumaction is lost haha ;D

Someone puts on larger or smaller rims and tires than the veh specs are for would be one cause.

Most speedometers are not 'finely' tune instruments to begin with.

 

[241]

Someone puts on larger or smaller rims and tires than the veh specs are for would be one cause.

Most speedometers are not 'finely' tune instruments to begin with.

Yeah I know the causes, was just wonderinghave to if police leave room for other errors in vehicle speedos or if they do it out of curtiousy, but not really a big deal haha ;D

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Yeah I know the causes, was just wonderinghave to if police leave room for other errors in vehicle speedos or if they do it out of curtiousy, but not really a big deal haha ;D

The AG here came up with a zero tolerance rule, I asked a cop on the street how they intended to do this. He rolled his eyes and said, no cop was going waste their time pursuing a ticket for 5km or under that was guaranteed to be thrown out of court.

 

[PMedMoe]

Montreal officer who decided to give me a 120$ failure to yield to a stop sign.   

Apparently my "rolling stop" was not good enough for him.

A rolling stop not good enough in Quebec?    Say it ain't so!! 

 

[geo]

(We call em New York or American stops)

 

[zipperhead_cop]

A rolling stop not good enough in Quebec?    Say it ain't so!! 

It's probably an offence to slow down in Quebec.  He should have been blowing up to them at full speed, then sliding sideways through the intersection.  Keep your pack of Mentostm handy.  ;D

 

[Thompson_JM]

It's probably an offence to slow down in Quebec.  He should have been blowing up to them at full speed, then sliding sideways through the intersection.  Keep your pack of Mentostm handy.   ;D

"Sir, what on earth convinced you that sliding through the intersection was a good idea?"

-"The Freshmaker?"

"Right, Off you go then..."

 

[Old Ranger]

Because city people are dumb and would annihilate themselves if left to their own devices. 

And the problem with that would be??? ;D

 

[Neill McKay]

Lame.
Please tell me that you aren't the 110 vigilante that drives in the left lane because "it's fast enough"?  :-\

No, I'm a civil engineer specializing in transportation engineering.

If you could Enlighten this layman, I would be interested to know just how speed limits are formulated...

A speed limit depends on the geometry of the highway.  Highways are designed so that a vehicle with certain standard properties (e.g. weight, height), with certain assumptions made about the driver (e.g. that he or she can perceive a hazard and react by applying the brakes in about 2.5 seconds), can be driven safely at a certain design speed.

The geometry of the highway is the big factor.  The radius of a curve affects how fast you can safely drive on the highway because it affects your ability to see objects in the way -- other cars, a moose, a box of canned food, or whatever.  It also affects the sideways forces on your car, counteracted by the banking of the highway.  Take a curve too fast and you risk sliding off the outside of it, or being surprised by something around the bend and not having time to stop or swerve around it.

Vertical curves (hills and valleys) also create sight-distance issues: when you crest a hill your sight distance is limited (until you get to a point near the top).  Same with entering a tunnel.

As is normal in engineering design there is a factor of safety.  A highway with a speed limit of 110 km/h can perhaps be driven by a standard driver, in the standard car, under good conditions, at 120 or 130 km/h before problems occur.  That's a 10-20 km/h safety margin on the fastest roads in the country.  19 km/h is pushing things even on a modern 4-lane divided highway.  Doing that on any less of a highway is likely to be correspondingly more dangerous.

There are a lot of people who do drive that much over the limit, and many of them have been lucky so far, but a fair number of them have not.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

As is normal in engineering design there is a factor of safety.  A highway with a speed limit of 110 km/h can perhaps be driven by a standard driver, in the standard car, under good conditions, at 120 or 130 km/h before problems occur.  That's a 10-20 km/h safety margin on the fastest roads in the country.  19 km/h is pushing things even on a modern 4-lane divided highway.  Doing that on any less of a highway is likely to be correspondingly more dangerous.

Dur....okay.  Now, I'm no math god, but if I'm looking at your numbers, you are saying in good conditions (which I take to mean weather and no road covering like gravel or boxes of canned food (okay like WTF?)) a person could go up to 130 km/h?  So, how is 19 over on a 100 km/h road so bad?  That is, like, still 11 less that the upper limit you said?  ???  Howz about a bit more help for the layman here? 

 

[midget-boyd91]

  Rant warning.

  Speed limits, wonderful things aren't they? Hmm, its just too bad there are always those dumbasses who try to go as far over the limit as possible, or those who think they are safe ''as long as I'm comfortable at the speed I'm at.''  You see, speed has very much so taken on an entirely new meaning to me over the last few months. There have been a number of fatal crashes around here recently, most caused by young drvers and speed.
    Maybe two weeks ago there was a three car collision where two of the cars hit head on. Four people were killed, I knew two of them. My brother responded with the fire department and got to see birds picking at the face of his friend off of the pavement.. he lived for roughly twelve hours after the crash before passing. Even for first responders with 25+ years of experience, they said this was the worst they have encountered. 
  Fast driving has become a touchy topic with me since the people dying in these crashes were getting closer and closer to my own age. I personally think that anyone caught speeding should face an extremely heavy fine, and youth caught driving like that should have their lisence taken away for a minimum of one full year in addition to the fine. But that's just opinion, I'll let the lawmakers sort that out.
  In that crash two weeks ago, the two cars filled with the dumbasses, may they rest in peace, was travelling at 140km/h.  One hundred forty, and four people died. Why would we want to have our limits raised higher than they are now? Do people actually want it to become the norm to drive at 130-140? Why? Does that extra two minutes driving from The Valley to halifax really mean so much to you that you're willing to put those lives on the line? Just because somebody "feels comfortable and safe" driving at those speeds doesn't mean $hit isn't going to happen, and when on the highway... theres a hell of a big difference made between 115-20  and 135-40. Divided highways and multiple passing lanes or not, $hit still happens.
  I may not be the most experienced driver on the planet (or household), but I've still seen some completely dumb$hits on the highways around me. The ones who want to get off by driving fast or some other useless reason. I may not have the most life experience (in fact I think there are leftovers in the fridge older than myself), but I have seen some pretty nasty crashes.. and almost been in a few myself. And even now, when half a dozen people a month my age are throwing their lives down the shitter, I'll say that I have no use for anybody who decides to risk their lives and my life by speeding.  Our limits are fine as they are, raise them, and I guarantee you're going to see a dozen more young people dying a month in crashes.
  Well... I'm not sure if that was a rant, or a vent, but thats what I had in my mind on the matter.

[/vant]


midget

 

[GAP]

Dur....okay.  Now, I'm no math god, but if I'm looking at your numbers, you are saying in good conditions (which I take to mean weather and no road covering like gravel or boxes of canned food (okay like WTF?)) a person could go up to 130 km/h?  So, how is 19 over on a 100 km/h road so bad?  That is, like, still 11 less that the upper limit you said?   ???  Howz about a bit more help for the layman here? 

I don't think he was advocating one way or the other, simply explaining the parameters of how speed limits are determined.