Wanna-be‘s / Posers

[Shamrock]

Criminal Code
            PART X: FRAUDULENT TRANSACTIONS RELATING TO CONTRACTS AND TRADE
              Public Stores
Unlawful use of military uniforms or certificates
419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,

(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,

(b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order,

(c) has in his possession a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card from the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force that has not been issued to and does not belong to him, or

(d) has in his possession a commission or warrant or a certificate of discharge, certificate of release, statement of service or identity card, issued to an officer or a person in or who has been in the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force, that contains any alteration that is not verified by the initials of the officer who issued it, or by the initials of an officer thereto lawfully authorized,

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 377.


Guess we're just a little more proactive about this stuff.  Now, seems to me that this is actually a little more encompassing than what the Americans propose (one you lawyers can help me out with this).  Should I claim to have won the CMH whilst serving in the USMC on a job application in Canada, would I not be commiting an offence?  Also, does para (b) cover the asshats who claim to be aeroborne (even going so far as to put up unearned jump wings)?

 

[Pearson]

(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,
[

Now if this read "PARTS" of a uniform. Then I could get the idiot who tried to steal $500.00 or so dollars of gear from my store arrested on sight. Wearing a nice new CADPAT parka which he was using in an attempt to hide shoes, jerseys and other things he "found" in the store. Gee, I wonder where he "bought" his parka.

 

[reccecrewman]

It should be an offence to wear parts of a CF uniform.  I hate seeing people wearing our cadpat pants or other parts of our uniform,

 

[TN2IC]

Small pack in malls.... Regent Mall... drives me crazy.

 

[Thompson_JM]

in some cases its a young misguided troop shooting for the LCF... in our case, we only had so much room to fit everything when we came out here to gagetown... so some of the guyshad no choice but to use the small pack since it was the only backpack they had out here! 

but those using it for the LCF should be informed and sorted out...

 

[Zell_Dietrich]

It should be an offence to wear parts of a CF uniform.  I hate seeing people wearing our cadpat pants or other parts of our uniform,

It is.  I don't mean it is just offensive,  it is actually a crime.  If a person is wearing a uniform, or a part of a uniform or wearing something similar enough to cause confusion then there are laws against that.  (Impersonating a member of the CF is a crime,  unfortunately unless they do it on a military base or are otherwise subject to DND code of conduct - Hurrah for QOR volume 2 - it is a matter for the Criminal Code of Canada. ) 

    And here is a fun thing for those who try to sell their stuff on e-bay.  Or guys who alter their gear so they can use it on the street.  Or those guys who loose their stuff and buy cheep knockoffs and try to return/exchange it.  Basically, while the gear is intruded to you,  it is the property of the Queen.  On the books,  this is taken extremely seriously. With good cause,  most of those activities can easily compromise the safety of CF members. 

    Now there are pants that look similar, sometimes I can't tell the difference,  but unless they are worn with other items it would be hard to bust someone for impersonating, the pants alone isn't enough to cause confusion.  Although the jacket I think is enough because it could easily cause confusion.  I think it is all contextual.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/c-46/267591.html  From 416 - 421

 

[3rd Herd]

Not about Posers-But about the uniform issues​

Since I am going to be stuck here in Calgary for the next two years I went and again signed on to CI at one of the local PPCLI cadet corps. Having been in this position with all three service branches over the years I have seen quite a few interesting dress codes but this is a new one. So I am seeking some wisdom and thoughts.

The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?

 

[orange.paint]

Meeh.As long as their happy,getting payed and developing the future civilians and soldiers of tomorrow,I don't mind.It's a different organisation in my mind.Hey I'll donate my old olive drab to em,5 foot 6....any 13 yr olds need a pair? ;D

I honestly have to say I'm guilty of most of the things here when I was a teenager.Having said that I grew up near to a US army base,hence lots of cheap warm clothing.I had a combat jacket that I wore for years,good quality.

I think a lot of it is frivolous bullpoo.I wear a Chelsea jersey all the time.However no one suspects me of being a player.I see the civilian wearing the old green jean jacket the same way.I see kids walking to school here on base using small packs.Do I think its a big deal?Nope.Just kids being kids.

But personell who say are corporals in lets say the RCD shouldn't dress as a captain and go to the officers mess in lets say Trenton.Or he may have be caught and charged....not that it happened.

Now when someone wears dress uniform to a remembrance day parade and pretends to be in  a certain regiment or pretends to be a legion member should be shot.No questions asked.

(just my opinion....not everyone agrees with it but lets keep personal attacks to a minimum.Besides why be "the man" on the internet...save it for work...or for your dance routines.) (we all know you "bring it");D

 

[Neill McKay]

The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?

I suspect that this is not authorized, but don't have a reference at hand to prove it.  In general CIs may not wear CF uniforms.

 

[Haggis]

But personell who say are corporals in lets say the RCD shouldn't dress as a captain and go to the officers mess in lets say Trenton.Or he may have be caught and charged....not that it happened.

Now when someone wears dress uniform to a remembrance day parade and pretends to be in  a certain regiment or pretends to be a legion member should be shot.  No questions asked.

That's why the CSD and CCC 419 exist.

I honestly have to say I'm guilty of most of the things here when I was a teenager.  Having said that I grew up near to a US army base,hence lots of cheap warm clothing.I had a combat jacket that I wore for years,good quality.

I think a lot of it is frivolous bullpoo.I wear a Chelsea jersey all the time.However no one suspects me of being a player.I see the civilian wearing the old green jean jacket the same way.I see kids walking to school here on base using small packs.Do I think its a big deal?Nope.Just kids being kids.

If they applied this law rigorously, they'd be locking up a lot of homeless people!

 

[orange.paint]

If they applied this law rigorously, they'd be locking up a lot of homeless people!

LoL
true enough.

 

[armyvern]

Not about Posers-But about the uniform issues​

Since I am going to be stuck here in Calgary for the next two years I went and again signed on to CI at one of the local PPCLI cadet corps. Having been in this position with all three service branches over the years I have seen quite a few interesting dress codes but this is a new one. So I am seeking some wisdom and thoughts.

The issues here is that the CI's with the Cadet OC's apparent blessing wear the old style combats, berets/cap badge and combat boots on parade nights. Qualification badges and name tags.Think of time warping back to the 1980/90's. This is the first time I have seen this on parade nights, on Fld Ex that is a different story. My usual dress has been Corp shirt and comfortable shoes,slacks and ball cap. Thoughts?

3rd Herd,

This is indeed authorized dress for cadets etc now. I had posted this in one of the cadet threads about this time last year.

When our OG combats went out of the RegF/ResF system and once all Reg/Res and Air pers were converted to cadpat, the OG were supposed to be issued off by all Clothing Stores to the nearest cadet facilities so that they could be utilized there vice scrapped. So they are good to go.

On the small pack: It is authorized by message for use as a day pack...so get used to seeing it downtown. It's authorized.

Nothing OG is controlled. CTAT & ITAR controls are limited to "operational" or cadpat kit items. OG combats bought downtown at a surplus store are good to go for wear (including by the homeless).

Pers are also authorized to wear items of their military issued kit in some cases mixed with civilian dress. Ie, the parka can be worn to a scout camp etc provided that the CF rank insignia and markings are removed from it for the duration of it's use on civilian activities.

The legal facts noted by Zell Dietrich are applicable to civilians/posers. The are not applicable to serving personnel who are authorized and thus legally posess these kit items. But, as he stated, if you modify without prior written consent any kit item you have been issued that is returnable, be prepared to pay for it if the mod gets picked up by clothing when you try to return it. And if you mod it and get caught learn from this:

"What do you mean I have to pay for it? (Well because now it's scrap not due to fair wear and tear buddy and I can't issue it to anyone else so the Queen says so.) "He didn't make him (points finger to next Supply Tech over at the next counter serving his buddy) pay for his." Really says I? Guess what now happens at the next counter? Needless to say, his 'buddy' wasn't too impressed with him!

 

[3rd Herd]

3rd Herd,

This is indeed authorized dress for cadets etc now. I had posted this in one of the cadet threads about this time last year.

Armyvern,
I know it is okay for the cadets to wear the combats, my daughter cleaned out my old kit bag for clothing for her corps field ex's and some training nights. The issue here is CI's wearing the complete kit on parade nights. Now part of the issue is an attempt to form some sort of standardization for CI's partly for ident/safety purposes by parents and cadets. Secondly, there is a movement  which has been started to create a NCO CIC formal positions with in the cadet organization.

 

[armyvern]

Armyvern,
I know it is okay for the cadets to wear the combats, my daughter cleaned out my old kit bag for clothing for her corps field ex's and some training nights. The issue here is CI's wearing the complete kit on parade nights. Now part of the issue is an attempt to form some sort of standardization for CI's partly for ident/safety purposes by parents and cadets. Secondly, there is a movement  which has been started to create a NCO CIC formal positions with in the cadet organization.

I have seen some CICs in some corps wearing the old OG arm bands with "CIC" on them to clearly identify themselves.

Not sure about any posns within the CIC 3rd. But in relation to combat boots etc I believe that it was Kyle Burrows who had posted relevant to that issue last year with a message that the DCadets had said that if they were able to legally purchase it at a surplus store etc...that they could wear it.

Combat boots etc are able to be legally purchased at a surplus store. And on occassion cadpat can be purchased in surplus stores too....just not legally, as the controls in place are supposed to ensure that no surplus/used/scrap cadpat ever makes it to a surplus store.

 

[Burrows]

Members of the CIC who are entitled to combat dress are entitled to CADPAT and the rank slip-ons as such.  The rank slip-on has CIC as the unit identifier, although some have CANADA.  The only time I have seen members of the CIC wearing the old OD Brassards is at Cadet Training Centres to signify the Duty O for their respective companies.

As for CIs and combats - they are issued combats as their workdress at Cadet Training Centres, and I have personally seen 3 different variations of Civillian Instructor rank slip-ons; Red w white text, OD with OD text, and emerald green with yellow text.  I've seen CIs wear their civvies, and combats.  I think this is really a matter for the CO of the corps.

 

[Kat Stevens]

When I retired I was on the cusp of the relish suit issue.  When I went to turn in my gear, the binrat in residence (a civy, stand down headhunters)  said he'd rather write em off than count em 30 times, so I kept the OD combats.  I wear them to work almost every day, they work better than a tool belt, lots of pockets.  They also last forever when you're not crawling on your belly like a reptile. I really hope the cops don't come to lock me up, again....

 

[armyvern]

When I retired I was on the cusp of the relish suit issue.  When I went to turn in my gear, the binrat in residence (a civy, stand down headhunters)  said he'd rather write em off than count em 30 times, so I kept the OD combats.  I wear them to work almost every day, they work better than a tool belt, lots of pockets.  They also last forever when you're not crawling on your belly like a reptile. I really hope the cops don't come to lock me up, again....

LOL Kat...swirling black helicopters in your future...

You are good to go. You must have gotten out right on the cusp of Army cadpat initial issues but prior to the Air types going into cadpat. Different rules then on the return/scrapping of the OG than what became applicable once both Air and Army went to cadpat....

 

[redleafjumper]

The last few posts seem to me to indicate a misunderstanding about the difference between a"CI" or civilian instructor, and the "CIC" or Cadet Instructors Cadre.  It's been a while, but back in the day CI's were not authorized to wear uniforms, although slip-ons were issued that said "Civilian Instructor" and they often wore the stuff anyway.  I do not know the current policy.

I hope that helps clear that up.

 

[3rd Herd]

The last few posts seem to me to indicate a misunderstanding about the difference between a"CI" or civilian instructor, and the "CIC" or Cadet Instructors Cadre.  It's been a while, but back in the day CI's were not authorized to wear uniforms, although slip-ons were issued that said "Civilian Instructor" and they often wore the stuff anyway.  I do not know the current policy.

I hope that helps clear that up.

That is exactly my point we are CI's or "civilian instructors". If I have to run to the nearest surplus store to re-equip myself, I do not mind but I can think of a host of laws which cover civi's wearing uniforms some of which has been mentioned in the preceding posts. And yes the Cadet instructor Corps do look spiffy in their Cadpats now if someone would only show them how to shape their berets.

 

[redleafjumper]

I believe that it is Cadet Instructors Cadre, not "corps".  The shaping berets comment is really an unfair sweeping generalization; not forming a beret properly is not limited to members in any one trade or component.