Walts, posers & wannabes (merged)

[The Bread Guy]

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin_(film)

The reference for the colour of the boathouse is from this movie.
I still don't know the colour of the boathouse.

More here.

 

[cupper]

Ask him what colour the boathouse is.

#SeanBeanFail

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronin_(film)

The reference for the colour of the boathouse is from this movie.
I still don't know the colour of the boathouse.

- mod fix of link -

More here.

Here is the answer in case you ever get challenged on your SAS creds.  ;D

http://www.herefordrc.co.uk

 

[Interstate66]

I have a few questions. I'm in the hiring process of a few potential employees. I have hired a few people, and hired one of them based heavily on the military experience they claim to have. This person has been has been working for me on a probationary condition for about a month now. I have noticed a few things that seem suspicious when he talks to others about his past military experiences, where he's been and a few other things. Maybe someone here could help me figure out if he is a fake and has fooled me. Here are my questions:

1) If he was 16 when he joined in 1995, where would he have done his basic training?
2) If he served a total of six years, what is the highest rank he could've achieved while only going up through the ranks (not going to officer training school)?
3) If he joined the military and did not have a criminal record at the time, and got into trouble with the law during his time in the army (not military charges or misconduct), could he have hidden this from the military? If not, what would the procedure be? Could he have stayed in the army? Would he be discharged? Honourable discharge? Dishonourable discharge? Discharge of some other kind?
4) Is it possible to jump from the reserves to regular force?

Any help will be greatly appreciated. I do hope that he is who he says he is, as he's a pretty decent employee. But I will not stand for keeping someone employed based on lies, especially lies about serving in the military

 

[SweetNavyJustice]

Hi there,

One of the first things you can ask these individuals for is their Military Personnel Resume Record (MPRR).  It is a document that sums up all of your promotions, courses, postings (areas you worked), and also has information on their type of release (it is in a coded form at the bottom, but you can google what the codes mean). 

In response to your questions:

1) If he was 16 when he joined in 1995, where would he have done his basic training?

He could not have joined at 16.  The earliest you can join either the Reserves or Regular force is 17, with parental consent, 18 without.  Regardless of this, if he was Regular force, he would have gone to St-Jean sur Richeleau.  As an aside, in 1995, it was toward the latter end of our "Force Reduction" (downsizing), so we (the Forces) weren't doing a whole lot of hiring. 

2) If he served a total of six years, what is the highest rank he could've achieved while only going up through the ranks (not going to officer training school)?

As an Non-Commissioned Member (NCM), the highest rank someone could attain is Master Corporal or Master Seaman (for Navy).  If they are claiming to be an officer, the highest rank in that time would be a Captain or Lieutenant (Navy).

3) If he joined the military and did not have a criminal record at the time, and got into trouble with the law during his time in the army (not military charges or misconduct), could he have hidden this from the military? If not, what would the procedure be? Could he have stayed in the army? Would he be discharged? Honourable discharge? Dishonourable discharge? Discharge of some other kind?

Too complex to answer quickly.  Really is situation dependent.  Even if a person was successful in hiding a criminal conviction, this would eventually be picked up during the periodic review of their security clearance. 

4) Is it possible to jump from the reserves to regular force?

Yes. 

____

Hope this helps. 

 

[jeffb]

1) If he was 16 when he joined in 1995, where would he have done his basic training?

He could not have joined at 16.  The earliest you can join either the Reserves or Regular force is 17, with parental consent, 18 without.  Regardless of this, if he was Regular force, he would have gone to St-Jean sur Richeleau.  As an aside, in 1995, it was toward the latter end of our "Force Reduction" (downsizing), so we (the Forces) weren't doing a whole lot of hiring. 

That is not accurate. I have a friend who joined the primary reserve in 1997 at the age of 16. By the time he completed QL2 (BMQ now) he was 17 but he was 16 when he was sworn in and started QL2. I know this for sure because we went to high school together, were friends and were on the same QL2. Thinking back I think he had to be 17 by the time he finished QL2 or by some point in the year but I can't remember because it didn't happen to me. I have no idea if this is still in place.

 

[SweetNavyJustice]

That is not accurate. I have a friend who joined the primary reserve in 1997 at the age of 16. By the time he completed QL2 (BMQ now) he was 17 but he was 16 when he was sworn in and started QL2. I know this for sure because we went to high school together, were friends and were on the same QL2. Thinking back I think he had to be 17 by the time he finished QL2 or by some point in the year but I can't remember because it didn't happen to me. I have no idea if this is still in place.

I can only speak to the fact of our (the CAF's) policy.  It is quite clear an explicit, not withstanding your friends experience. 

Taken from:  http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100#age

"WHO CAN APPLY:
To apply to the Forces, you must:

Be a Canadian Citizen.
Be 17 years of age, with parental consent, or older, except:
Regular Officer Training Plan – Junior applications must be 16 or older.
Have completed at least Grade 10 or Secondaire IV (in Quebec).
Certain entry programs and occupations require higher levels of education. "

 

[PuckChaser]

And that policy was changed recently. In Spring 2001 I applied as a 16 year old to the PRes and was accepted.

 

[mariomike]

The age to join the reserves 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/118188/post-1355178.html#msg1355178

I do hope that he is who he says he is,

If he's not, he can go in here:

Walts, posers & wannabes (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/60282.1775

 

[Interstate66]

My issues with his claims aren't at what age he joined. I know for sure that back then, you could join at 16 if you had parental consent and met the educational requirements. The issues I'm questioning are:

1) He claimed to have reached the rank of Second Lieutenant after six years of service.
2) He claimed that his basic training was done at CFB Gagetown, and did some other training at CFB Borden.
3) When his record check came back, it indicated that he had a theft under $5000 and a few mischief charges dating from when he was 18 and 19. He said that his charges and convictions were never discovered because record checks aren't done after you're already in.

 

[kratz]

I can only speak to the fact of our (the CAF's) policy.  It is quite clear an explicit, not withstanding your friends experience. 

The CAF's rapid changes in policy and regulations makes it challenging for outside employers
to follow up information claimed in veteran resumes.
The older the information, the more effort it takes to confirm it is true.

For the Op, there are organizations that work collectively to employ veterans.
If you choose to sign on with these reputable groups, most of your concerns will be assuaged,
when considering a CAF veteran.
- JPSU at a base near you, is the best source since we do not know you
- Review the CAF Transition Program

As for his claims, I'm an HRM student now. You've already confirmed one of his claims is incorrect, therefore you have grounds to release (fire) him, for false information in the hiring process.

CAF members are also members of our community and at some point will retire and take up other jobs.
Our skills, knowledge base and ethics make us valuable resources to industry. Knowing how to effectively
capitalize on this resource and avoid pitfalls is the aim of the organizations I directed you toward above.

 

[dangles]

My issues with his claims aren't at what age he joined. I know for sure that back then, you could join at 16 if you had parental consent and met the educational requirements. The issues I'm questioning are:

1) He claimed to have reached the rank of Second Lieutenant after six years of service.
2) He claimed that his basic training was done at CFB Gagetown, and did some other training at CFB Borden.
3) When his record check came back, it indicated that he had a theft under $5000 and a few mischief charges dating from when he was 18 and 19. He said that his charges and convictions were never discovered because record checks aren't done after you're already in.

Second Lieutenant is nothing if he joined as an Officer originally.........if he joined as an NCM then it is quite a stretch.

As mentioned earlier I would ask for an MPRR. However, a very simple way to test him would be to ask for his service number. The format of a service number is 9 digits, like so X00-000-000. The first digit is a letter sounded out phonetically (N - November, T - Tango etc.) and the other 8 digits are numbers.

We have our service number drilled into our heads pretty hard, and if he was in for 6 years i'm sure he would be no different. If he gets the format completely wrong, or he stumbles around and looks for an excuse, I think you should be a little suspicious.

 

[ModlrMike]

It is possible that he had a criminal conviction of which the CF knew nothing, while he was a Reserve member. We often don't know what people get up to in their private lives.

I can't think of any way he could joint at 16, and end his service six years later as a 2Lt without going to RMC or having a degree.

It is possible that he did his Reserve basic in Gagetown. There was a period where the Reserves did basic training in all manner of locations. That has since narrowed to very few.

As others have suggested, ask for his Service Number and a copy of his MPRR. Ask him what his MOC was. If he prevaricates, then be suspicious.

 

[McG]

2Lt is easily possible for a reservist in six years.  Most reserve officers will see that within their first year.  However, the individual would have been in university or college before getting into an officer program.  He could have joined as a NCM in high school and switched to an officer training program 1 to 3 years later.

 

[Tuscar01]

I recommend contacting the military police. It would take an MP about 5 minutes to figure out if this member was actually in the CF.  If they don't know, they will be able to point you in the right direction to get an answer. If you get this guys service number, it will take them no time at all. A service number is much like a police officers badge number. It is almost impossible that a real CF member would not have it memorized. Google your local CFB's phone number and ask the operator to patch you to the non-emergency MP line. I truly think this would be your best bet at solving your case.

 

[The_Falcon]

I recommend contacting the military police. It would take an MP about 5 minutes to figure out if this member was actually in the CF.  If they don't know, they will be able to point you in the right direction to get an answer. If you get this guys service number, it will take them no time at all. A service number is much like a police officers badge number. It is almost impossible that a real CF member would not have it memorized. Google your local CFB's phone number and ask the operator to patch you to the non-emergency MP line. I truly think this would be your best bet at solving your case.

I recommend you refrain from posting such an asinine statements in the future. In Canada we (including DND) have these things called Privacy Laws, that would preclude the course of action you just suggested.

To Interstate66
Aside from the person in question providing some sort of proof, this is who you would contact for prior service, however they do mention that little thing called privacy laws as well http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/Pages/obtain-copies-military-service-files.aspx

 

[jollyjacktar]

Interstate66.  The fact that your employer is hiring is nice to hear.  I hope that you get the employee's you desire.  Good luck.

 

[Pusser]

Verifying past employment is a legitimate action for a prospective employer and the release of that information by a former employer does not violate any privacy regulations.  You may not be able to find out exactly what someone did while in the CF, or personal information about him, but you can find out if they were in fact a member.  I recommend contacting the Superintendant Clerk in the Orderly Room of the your nearest CF Base.  He should be able to guide you on the process.  Just tell him/her that you are an employer doing a background check and want to verify employment.

Furthermore, the CF does nothing without a form of some sort.  Some folks have mentioned the MPRR, which is a good source, but not necessarily the sort of thing that a person hangs on to, especially considering the timeframe where this guy claims to have been released.  However, you could still ask to see his release documents.  Another thing you could ask for is his Unit Employment Record (UER).  At the time in question, this item (it's actually a folder full of other documents) was supposed to be issued to every releasing member specifically for the purpose of showing people what the member had done while in the CF

Finally, it's entirely possible that he could have joined at 16, stayed for six years and released as a 2Lt:

    1) join at 16
    2) do five years at RMC (one year prep + four years for degree)
    3)  commissioned as a 2Lt upon graduation from RMC

It is unlikely that a Regular Force member would be able to hide a criminal conviction for very long.  Perhaps, he was kicked out because of the conviction?  The statement that they don't do checks after you're in is complete BS.

 

[JesseWZ]

I recommend contacting the military police. It would take an MP about 5 minutes to figure out if this member was actually in the CF.  If they don't know, they will be able to point you in the right direction to get an answer. If you get this guys service number, it will take them no time at all. A service number is much like a police officers badge number. It is almost impossible that a real CF member would not have it memorized. Google your local CFB's phone number and ask the operator to patch you to the non-emergency MP line. I truly think this would be your best bet at solving your case.

Uh, nope. Personal information is protected under the privacy act and is not just releasable because someone calls and asks for it. There are many avenues for someone to prove former service including a retired members card, past course reports, MPRRs, etc. All these items would have the members service number on it should they be willing to provide them.

 

[The_Falcon]

Verifying past employment is a legitimate action for a prospective employer and the release of that information by a former employer does not violate any privacy regulations.  You may not be able to find out exactly what someone did while in the CF, or personal information about him, but you can find out if they were in fact a member.  I recommend contacting the Superintendant Clerk in the Orderly Room of the your nearest CF Base.  He should be able to guide you on the process.  Just tell him/her that you are an employer doing a background check and want to verify employment.

Furthermore, the CF does nothing without a form of some sort.  Some folks have mentioned the MPRR, which is a good source, but not necessarily the sort of thing that a person hangs on to, especially considering the timeframe where this guy claims to have been released.  However, you could still ask to see his release documents.  Another thing you could ask for is his Unit Employment Record (UER).  At the time in question, this item (it's actually a folder full of other documents) was supposed to be issued to every releasing member specifically for the purpose of showing people what the member had done while in the CF

You might want to actually READ the Privacy Act first, since it is obvious you haven't, here is the link and appropriate section to make it easier for you.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/p-21/page-3.html#h-6

Definitions

3. In this Act


“head”

“head”, in respect of a government institution, means

(a) in the case of a department or ministry of state, the member of the Queen’s Privy Council for Canada who presides over the department or ministry, or


(b) in any other case, either the person designated under subsection 3.1(2) to be the head of the institution for the purposes of this Act or, if no such person is designated, the chief executive officer of the institution, whatever their title;


“personal information”


“personal information” means information about an identifiable individual that is recorded in any form including, without restricting the generality of the foregoing,

(a) information relating to the race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age or marital status of the individual,


(b) information relating to the education or the medical, criminal or employment history of the individual or information relating to financial transactions in which the individual has been involved,


(c) any identifying number, symbol or other particular assigned to the individual,


(d) the address, fingerprints or blood type of the individual,


(e) the personal opinions or views of the individual except where they are about another individual or about a proposal for a grant, an award or a prize to be made to another individual by a government institution or a part of a government institution specified in the regulations,


(f) correspondence sent to a government institution by the individual that is implicitly or explicitly of a private or confidential nature, and replies to such correspondence that would reveal the contents of the original correspondence,


(g) the views or opinions of another individual about the individual,


(h) the views or opinions of another individual about a proposal for a grant, an award or a prize to be made to the individual by an institution or a part of an institution referred to in paragraph (e), but excluding the name of the other individual where it appears with the views or opinions of the other individual, and


(i) the name of the individual where it appears with other personal information relating to the individual or where the disclosure of the name itself would reveal information about the individual,







Disclosure of personal information

8. (1) Personal information under the control of a government institution shall not, without the consent of the individual to whom it relates, be disclosed by the institution except in accordance with this section.


Where personal information may be disclosed

(2) Subject to any other Act of Parliament, personal information under the control of a government institution may be disclosed

(a) for the purpose for which the information was obtained or compiled by the institution or for a use consistent with that purpose;


(b) for any purpose in accordance with any Act of Parliament or any regulation made thereunder that authorizes its disclosure;


(c) for the purpose of complying with a subpoena or warrant issued or order made by a court, person or body with jurisdiction to compel the production of information or for the purpose of complying with rules of court relating to the production of information;


(d) to the Attorney General of Canada for use in legal proceedings involving the Crown in right of Canada or the Government of Canada;


(e) to an investigative body specified in the regulations, on the written request of the body, for the purpose of enforcing any law of Canada or a province or carrying out a lawful investigation, if the request specifies the purpose and describes the information to be disclosed;


(f) under an agreement or arrangement between the Government of Canada or an institution thereof and the government of a province, the council of the Westbank First Nation, the council of a participating First Nation — as defined in subsection 2(1) of the First Nations Jurisdiction over Education in British Columbia Act —, the government of a foreign state, an international organization of states or an international organization established by the governments of states, or any institution of any such government or organization, for the purpose of administering or enforcing any law or carrying out a lawful investigation;


(g) to a member of Parliament for the purpose of assisting the individual to whom the information relates in resolving a problem;


(h) to officers or employees of the institution for internal audit purposes, or to the office of the Comptroller General or any other person or body specified in the regulations for audit purposes;


(i) to the Library and Archives of Canada for archival purposes;


(j) to any person or body for research or statistical purposes if the head of the government institution

(i) is satisfied that the purpose for which the information is disclosed cannot reasonably be accomplished unless the information is provided in a form that would identify the individual to whom it relates, and


(ii) obtains from the person or body a written undertaking that no subsequent disclosure of the information will be made in a form that could reasonably be expected to identify the individual to whom it relates;



(k) to any aboriginal government, association of aboriginal people, Indian band, government institution or part thereof, or to any person acting on behalf of such government, association, band, institution or part thereof, for the purpose of researching or validating the claims, disputes or grievances of any of the aboriginal peoples of Canada;


(l) to any government institution for the purpose of locating an individual in order to collect a debt owing to Her Majesty in right of Canada by that individual or make a payment owing to that individual by Her Majesty in right of Canada; and


(m) for any purpose where, in the opinion of the head of the institution,

(i) the public interest in disclosure clearly outweighs any invasion of privacy that could result from the disclosure, or


(ii) disclosure would clearly benefit the individual to whom the information relates.

Hmmm, I fail to see where a clerk or even a Chief Clerk of a unit can just hand over personal information just because an employer is asking for it.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Find someone in the area you KNOW has served to ask him some questions.....