Vimy

[Doering]

Amazing how certain stories can change your perception of the good and bad in war!

 

[Michael OLeary]

1916 letter supports tale of Christmas truce
One soldier's letter tells of Canadian and German troops swapping 'bully beef for cigars,' writes Randy Boswell.
By Randy Boswell, Postmedia News December 17, 2010

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/1916+letter+supports+tale+Christmas+truce/3990888/story.html

A Canadian soldier's letter from Vimy Ridge is being hailed by a European scholar as a "fantastic find" that provides evidence of a previously unknown "Christmas Truce" -- the impromptu, Dec. 25 laying down of arms by German and Allied soldiers during the First World War.

University of Aberdeen historian Thomas Weber, whose own great-grandfather fought with the German army during the 1914-18 conflict, said the letter home from a Toronto soldier details an exchange of gifts between enemy soldiers just months before the horrific battle remembered as Canada's coming of age.

The letter is all the more poignant because the young soldier who wrote it -- 23-year-old Pte. Ronald MacKinnon -- was killed in the Battle of Vimy Ridge in April 1917, a bloody but successful Canadian charge up a strategic height of land in the French countryside.

A few months earlier, MacKinnon had written to his sister in Toronto about a remarkable event on Dec. 25, 1916, when German and Canadian soldiers reached across the battle lines to share Christmas greetings and trade presents.

"Here we are again as the song says," MacKinnon wrote. "I had quite a good Xmas considering I was in the front line. Xmas eve was pretty stiff, sentry-go up to the hips in mud of course. ... We had a truce on Xmas Day and our German friends were quite friendly. They came over to see us and we traded bully beef for cigars."

The passage ends with MacKinnon noting that, "Xmas was 'tray bon,' which means very good."

The best known Christmas truce from the First World War took place in 1914, when German and Allied soldiers are said to have sung Christmas carols together and otherwise fraternized in a brief moment of peace amid the killing fields of the Western Front.

But historians have long debated the precise details of that event, and Weber told Postmedia News that most scholars believe such episodes did not recur as the gruesome war dragged on and feelings of hatred and revenge came to fill the minds of men on both sides.

"But these kinds of sentiments were being expressed throughout the war," said Weber, whose recently published book, Hitler's First War, details the First World War experiences of the central figure of the Second World War.

Notably, says Weber, Adolf Hitler's own regiment in the First World War was among those known to have participated in momentary acts of kinship with enemy soldiers. He takes aim in his book at the widely held notion that Hitler was profoundly shaped by a deep hatred and bitterness for the enemy that was common among German soldiers from the First World War.

While Hitler is known to have been personally hostile to momentary peacemaking amid the war, there was a definite "gulf" between his views and those of many Germans on the front lines.

MacKinnon's letter and similar evidence of fraternizing with foes "really puts to rest the long dominant view that the majority of combatants during the Great War were driven by a brutalizing and ever faster spinning cycle of violence," Weber argues in a summary of his research.

"I'm not saying that brutalization did not occur at all," he added, "but more commonly what happened was that soldiers in the heat of battle fought ferociously but, after the battle and after the adrenalin had gone, remorse tended to set in, and there are many incidents recorded where soldiers tried to help injured soldiers from the other side."

It was "because of this kind of sentiment that continued Christmas truces were possible," Weber states. Weber says there's no doubt the brutalizing effects of the war led to the "dehumanizing" of enemy combatants in many cases, but that the Christmas truces highlight how a "kind of humanity did survive."
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/1916+letter+supports+tale+Christmas+truce/3990888/story.html#ixzz18VJj4rr1

 

[MMSS]

The Canadian Virtual War Memorial (CVWM)

Private RONALD  MACKINNON who died on April 9, 1917

Service Number: 157629
Age: 23
Force: Army
Unit: Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry (Eastern Ontario Regt.)

Wouldn't have a family connection to Cape Breton would he/you? My wife's mother is a MacKinnon, from Little Narrows.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Wouldn't have a family connection to Cape Breton would he/you? My wife's mother is a MacKinnon, from Little Narrows.

His attestation paper (posted above) shows he was born in Toronto.

My only connection to Cape Breton was serving as the RSSO for 2 NSH (CB) in the 1980s.

 

[54/102 CEF]

An old story for a few of us

See link - http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/wfa-publications/118-wfa-stand-to/894-stand-to-84.html

PM me for a larger link of the trace

 

[daftandbarmy]

Vimy Ridge 2017: 100 Years, 100 Summits

“My father always went into the mountains as if he were entering a church.”  George Orwell

Both my grandfathers served with the Canadian Expeditionary Force in World War One. As infantrymen. Both were at Vimy. 

Of course, they survived or I would not be writing these words. How miraculous that is - that I am here because both survived the mud, blood and gore of that most infamously hideous global conflict - was driven home to me during my first visit to Canada’s Vimy Ridge memorial. On it are inscribed the names of over 60,000 Canadians, most of them Infantrymen like my Grandfathers, who did not survive that terrible war.

My mother’s father, Giles Clark, came close to earning himself an inscription on that memorial: he was buried alive by shellfire at Vimy, fighting with the PPCLI sometime before the famous battle and, incredibly, was dug out alive but terribly injured. Ironically, that probably saved his life as he was invalided out of the war. My dad’s dad and my namesake, Richard Eaton, fought with the 67th Battalion Western Scots. The 67th are perpetuated today by the Victoria based Canadian Scottish Regiment, with whom I now serve. Grandpa Eaton was mustard gassed (‘If you didn’t get a whiff of gas, you weren’t at the front’) and it eventually killed him, as it also did two of his Kelway family brothers-in-law.

Although I didn’t realize it at the time, when I was younger, Canada’s success at the Battle of Vimy Ridge was an intensely proud event in the history of my family. Although no one bragged about it, or even talked about it much at all apart from my dad, it’s now apparent to me that in our own quiet, self-effacing, Canadian way my family were as proud of their contribution to Canadian history as any American whose forefathers froze with Washington at Valley Forge, or Englishman whose ancestors crushed tyranny with Wellington at Waterloo. So, as the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge approached I wondered: what could I do to honour that contribution?

One thing I like to do when I get the chance is to climb mountains. Big ones. My current personal high point is 18,491 ft, which I achieved in February 2016 with a successful summit of Pico de Orizaba. Coincidentally, on April 9th, 1917 the men of the Canadian Corps successfully scaled a well defended high point during that now distant battle. Of course, there is little in the way of comparable risk as most mountains these days do not confront the climber with thousands of well dug in opponents sporting hundreds of machine guns and artillery pieces. However, as a gesture, I thought that it might be appropriate for me to climb 100 summits within a year encompassing 2017.

And so, on December 17th, 2016, I began ticking off the summits (the photo of this first summit is included at the top of this page). My criteria for a ‘worthy summit’ is, of necessity, relatively modest. It has to be a geographical feature that is known as a mountain, or is mountain like in its prominence. It has to be a self-propelled effort by me from bottom to top, and back down again because, after all, there were no Sky Rides, ATVs or helicopters at Vimy Ridge. And I have to be carrying a reasonable load on my back, not only to pay homage to the 60 to 100 pounds of weapons, ammunition and ancillary equipment which encumbered my Infantry Grandfathers, but to make sure that I meet my personal fitness preparation goals for future big climbs.

How am I doing so far?

As of March 14th, 2017, the day I wrote this article, by focusing mainly on the relatively humble local bumps I’ve managed to find the time to haul me and my 30 pound pack up and down 27 summits. Sometimes, I’ve even been able to complete two or three summits in one day. On other occasions, time is short, so I have to be content with one, but I also have a few bigger targets in my sights for this summer. Regardless, as I step off on each climb I think of my Grandfathers, the kind, quiet, and dignified old men I knew as a child and instead envision two battle hardened, 20-something soldiers of the elite Canadian Corps – Shock Troops of the Empire - setting off into No Man’s Land, rifles gripped, bayonets fixed, to do a dirty job in the face of unlimited danger and vast uncertainty. Of course, these thoughts help me to put my relatively trivial discomforts and worries into the right perspective, while concurrently passing down our family’s proud, and very lucky, Vimy and First World War story to my children in an authentic, enduring and meaningful way.

And maybe to also, finally, after 100 years, celebrate a little.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/vimy-ridge-2017-100-years-summits-richard-eaton?trk=v-feed&lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_detail_base%3BiUR88Ygyyg%2B03fHwJHD2LQ%3D%3D

 

[The Bread Guy]

Centennial messages from the Queen ...

“Today, as people on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean gather to mark the 100th anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge, there will be difficult memories of loss and of suffering, but also memories of many heroic acts of bravery and of sacrifice on the part of those who served. On this day a century ago, thousands of Canadian soldiers stood far from home together with their allies in defence of peace and freedom. They fought courageously and with great ingenuity in winning the strategic high point of Vimy Ridge, though victory came at a heavy cost with more than 10,000 fallen and wounded.

I am pleased that my son The Prince of Wales, and my grandsons The Duke of Cambridge and Prince Harry, are attending the commemorations today.

As Colonel-in-Chief, Captain General and Air Commodore-in-Chief of Canadian Armed Forces units, I have often borne witness to the professionalism and dedication, as well as the sense of equality, of respect, of perseverance, of sacrifice and of hope that infuses our military.

It is our duty to remember and honour those who served so valiantly and who gave so much here at Vimy Ridge and throughout the First World War.”

... and from Canada's GG/Commander-in-Chief:

On this day a century ago, after months of careful planning and surveillance, through considerable innovations in tactics and technology, and after remarkable determination and courage, the Canadian Corps took Vimy Ridge.

Despite all of these efforts, the outcome was uncertain, the cost of victory very high. Three thousand, five hundred and ninety-eight Canadians were killed in the fighting. Seven thousand were wounded. On the home front, millions of Canadians waited anxiously for news of their loved ones.

Today, as we mark the 100th anniversary of the battle, we honour the soldiers who fought at Vimy. We have the opportunity to look back on our history and to learn valuable lessons from the past. Indeed, we have that responsibility. 

Sharon and I are honoured to join the tens of thousands of people attending the commemorations today at Vimy in France, while Canadians gather for memorials in communities large and small across the country. Let us remember those soldiers who sacrificed so much and let us strive always for a better understanding of our history and for peace. Lest we forget.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Just got home from the ceremony at the National War Memorial.  It was good, if different.  Not impressed with the Minister of the Environment neglecting to acknowledge members of the CF in her address.  Unintended, I'm sure.

They did have First Nations participation with a Smudge and Drum ceremony.  The drummer was long in song,  I noticed that the foreign dignitaries were somewhat puzzled by it.

But overall,  very good and well done.  The white doves at the end was touching.

Today, I remember Pte Edward Maunsell, 10th Battalion,  my great uncle who fell this morning in 1917.  And my grandfather, Lt  Edward Buckwell, LdSH(RC) who passed away overseas while revisiting Vimy for the memorial dedication in 1936.  As well as all the others who fell and fought at Vimy.

 

[Chispa]

What 35 Montreal high school students hope to learn as they travel to Vimy
35 students from Lindsay Place High School are travelling to Vimy to join thousands of other Canadians
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-students-visit-vimy-1.4059705

Victoria Hall exhibition commemorates 100th anniversary of Vimy Ridge battle
http://montrealgazette.com/opinion/columnists/victoria-hall-exhibition-commemorates-100th-anniversary-of-vimy-ridge-battle


'That day was like a scythe': Montreal and the casualty lists of Vimy Ridge
Battalion diaries, newspapers detail decisive battle's toll on Montrealers 100 years ago

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/vimy-ridge-casualty-lists-montreal-1.4058385


Newly discovered photos depict unveiling of Vimy memorial Walter Wright was one of the organizers of the Toronto
pilgrimage to Vimy, France, made by thousands of Canadian veterans for the unveiling of the memorial.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/04/08/newly-discovered-photos-depict-unveiling-of-vimy-memorial.html

The Germans considered it a victory, too: Rare images showing everything you didn’t know about Vimy Ridge
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/the-germans-considered-it-a-victory-too-rare-images-showing-everything-you-didnt-know-about-vimy-ridge

Lest We Forget


C.U.

 

[MarkOttawa]

A tweet of mine:
https://twitter.com/Mark3Ds/status/944287658842484736

Mark Collins  @Mark3Ds

#WWI #CanadianArmy-Prof. Jack Granatstein on Canadian myths about Battle of #VimyRidge 1917 and the realities-note majority of Canadians in Corps actually British-born (pdf 6-7) #cdnhistory #BritishArmy #militaryhistory @WW1TheGreatWar  http://jmss.org/jmss/index.php/jmss/article/view/749/701

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Old Sweat]

I cannot take issue with Dr Granatstein's observations, and he has made his points in a very balanced manner. However, the subject of the nationality of the members of the CEF requires some amplification. The decades before the Great War had seen heavy immigration to Canada from the United Kingdom. As Donald E. Graves has noted, more than 480,000 people between 1901 and 1911 alone. Many members of the CEF probably came to Canada as infants or small children and had no recollection of their country of birth. The location of their next-of-kin (nok) on their enlistment documents is probably a more accurate indication of their nationality than their place of birth according to Graves. For example, in the 3rd Battalion CEF, with 60.4% born in the UK, if those showing nok in North America are removed, the "British" drop to 29.5%. This is probably a more accurate indication of nationality.

 

[Old Sweat]

Further to the above, circa 1969 I read an account by a British-born Canadian Gunner about meeting a childhood friend serving in the RA just before the attack on the Ridge. It went something like this:

"I hate the sight of you Canadians."

"For whatever reason, Alf?"

"Because wherever you go, we go, and wherever you go, all hell breaks loose. What devilment are you up to this time?"

"We're going to take the ridge."

There is not much doubt in my mind, they both considered one to be Canadian and the other to be British, regardless of place of birth.

 

[MarkOttawa]

And lots on this angle:

Yes, French Canadians Did Their Share in the First World War
http://www.journal.forces.gc.ca/Vol17/no4/page47-eng.asp

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Old Sweat]

To be somewhat cynical, the reason Vimy Ridge may occupy such a prominent place in Canadian lore is location, location, location. Whoever picked the ridge selected one of the most striking vistas on the Western Front. The magnificent monument catches the eye and dominates the surrounding countryside like nowhere else I have seen in France and Flanders.

Sir Arthur Currie was correct in his assessment, and his fears, that Vimy would (my words) grow to occupy centre stage for Canadians, when it was a bit player in the drama of the Great War.

 

[pbi]

Last summer my wife and I visited Vimy. Whatever we may think today about the actual military value of the operation, or whatever second-guessing we might indulge in, there has been nothing for me, so far in my life, to equal actually standing on that spot.

I have walked some of the battlefields in Italy, but there is just something about the place, the huge brooding monument, and the endless cemeteries, which all make Vimy a very striking and unforgettable experience.

I recommend it to all Canadians.

 

[Old Sweat]

I second PBI's thoughts. Last year I had the honour and the privilege to be one of the conducting officers for the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery's commemoration of the centenary of the capture of the Ridge. It was a humbling, but most gratifying, experience and one that would be almost impossible to replicate.

 

[YZT580]

If I recall correctly, Vimy Ridge has been deeded to Canada in perpetuity: it is part of our country.  It is an awe inspiring site and very humbling.  Successive parliaments should be required to stand in the shadow of that monument when they take their oath of allegiance much as all Israeli troops are required to take their oaths in Masada.  Maybe then our MPs would begin to take their solemn responsibilities to Canada seriously

 

[daftandbarmy]

Last summer my wife and I visited Vimy. Whatever we may think today about the actual military value of the operation, or whatever second-guessing we might indulge in, there has been nothing for me, so far in my life, to equal actually standing on that spot.

I have walked some of the battlefields in Italy, but there is just something about the place, the huge brooding monument, and the endless cemeteries, which all make Vimy a very striking and unforgettable experience.

I recommend it to all Canadians.

All the more impressive when you realize that the French lost over 150,000 casualties trying to take and hold the ridge prior to 1917. There's a small memorial to their efforts in the vicinity and, although I remember visiting it during a couple of visits, can't remember exactly where it's placed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_National_Vimy_Memorial

 

[R933ex]

I've been fortunate enough to travel there once a year,for the past few years, with my family.  Each time finding a new path or memorial.  There is a large memorial to the Moroccans- directly across from the main monument. I have to admit, when my daughter and I went to pay our respects on Nov 11, we were saddened to see that there were only three wreaths there and apparently we were the only people to visit it....

 

[Gunner98]

I've been fortunate enough to travel there once a year,for the past few years, with my family.  Each time finding a new path or memorial.  There is a large memorial to the Moroccans- directly across from the main monument. I have to admit, when my daughter and I went to pay our respects on Nov 11, we were saddened to see that there were only three wreaths there and apparently we were the only people to visit it....

All the more impressive when you realize that the French lost over 150,000 casualties trying to take and hold the ridge prior to 1917. There's a small memorial to their efforts in the vicinity and, although I remember visiting it during a couple of visits, can't remember exactly where it's placed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_National_Vimy_Memorial

Moroccan Memorial also makes reference to the Zouaves (Indigenous Algerians) and the Foreign Legion who fought as part of 1st Moroccan Division - http://www.webmatters.net/france/ww1_vimy_9.htm

"Vimy Ridge ran almost 12km north-east of Arras. The Germans occupied Vimy Ridge in September 1914 and their engineers immediately began to construct a network of artillery-proof trenches and bunkers. These were protected from infantry attack by concrete Machine Gun Posts.

The French Tenth Army responded by digging its own system of trenches at Arras. Repeated French attempts to take Vimy Ridge cost about 150,000 casualties between May and November 1915. Although the French were able to take the villages of Carency, Neuville St Vaast and Souchez, Vimy Ridge remained under the control of the Germans."  http://spartacus-educational.com/FWWvimy.htm

Nearby 15 minutes away from Vimy is Ablain St.-Nazaire French Military Cemetery, also known as “Notre Dame de Lorette”, is the largest French military cemetery in the world. A total of 40,057 casualties are buried here. Almost all of the remains are casualties of the First World War. http://www.greatwar.co.uk/french-flanders-artois/cemetery-ablain-st-nazaire-notre-dame-de-lorette.htm