Veterans Affairs says worker ‘inappropriately’ discussed medically assisted death with veteran

[brihard]

Ok, now I definitely want to know if this all came from a single rogue worker or if there’s a broader problem of this with VAC agents.

 

[ueo]

Ok, now I definitely want to know if this all came from a single rogue worker or if there’s a broader problem of this with VAC agents.

Sounds like an iceburg tip.

 

[brihard]

Sounds like an iceburg tip.

I’m still cautiously optimistic on that… With the outrage after the initial story, had it been much more widespread I think we’d have seen several more such accounts much faster rather than one (or two?) additional ones a month or two later.

 

[mariomike]

Sounds like an iceburg tip.

Possibly. My retirement organization invited me to a seminar on 14 Dec. "MAID: The Ontario experience".

The speaker will be a member of the Canadian Psychiatric Association MAID working group and the Joint Centre for Bioethics MAID Community of Practice.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I truly support MAID so long as its a personal choice.

My fear has always been that it will be used in a maleficent means and now I am worried that is beginning to happen.

 

[dimsum]

Ok, now I definitely want to know if this all came from a single rogue worker or if there’s a broader problem of this with VAC agents.

Related article. Sounds like one caseworker (now suspended) suggested it to 5 different CAF members.

Canadian veterans were offered assisted suicide in five instances, committee hears

Veterans Affairs Minister Lawrence MacAulay told a House committee the case has now been turned over to the RCMP for investigation.

nationalpost.com

As many as five Canadian Armed Forces veterans were offered medically-assisted death (MAID) by a now-suspended Veterans Affairs Canada caseworker, the minister responsible for the department testified on Thursday.

 

[Weinie]

Related article. Sounds like one caseworker (now suspended) suggested it to 5 different CAF members.

Canadian veterans were offered assisted suicide in five instances, committee hears

Veterans Affairs Minister Lawrence MacAulay told a House committee the case has now been turned over to the RCMP for investigation.

nationalpost.com

Maybe we should offer it to him. Just saying.

 

[brihard]

Related article. Sounds like one caseworker (now suspended) suggested it to 5 different CAF members.

Canadian veterans were offered assisted suicide in five instances, committee hears

Veterans Affairs Minister Lawrence MacAulay told a House committee the case has now been turned over to the RCMP for investigation.

nationalpost.com

Wow. I hadn’t yet seen that when I read my reply. I see it’s also been referred to police for investigation.

 

[Brad Sallows]

This is why sometimes policy makers have to say "No, we're not doing that". Because you can't trust people with it.

 

[OldSolduer]

Sounds like an iceburg tip.

Do not rush to judgment. I would dare say this is someone going out on a limb and not a systemic issue

 

[MilEME09]

Do not rush to judgment. I would dare say this is someone going out on a limb and not a systemic issue

Hopefully this leads to better training for case workers, and also more of them, they are over worked and understaffed

 

[OldSolduer]

Hopefully this leads to better training for case workers, and also more of them, they are over worked and understaffed

And careful selection of case workers. Just because someone has a degree in something or other doesn’t make them suitable

 

[brihard]

Do not rush to judgment. I would dare say this is someone going out on a limb and not a systemic issue

This is the way I'm leaning on this.

I'd be curious to see if there's anything further to the story that underlies the police referral. At face value it would be very difficult to establish a chargeable offense (presumably, s.241, 'Counseling Suicide') out of recommending someone consider MAiD, just because of the procedural safeguards (concurrence of 2x physicians/nurse practitioners) that are part of that process. Although it's not unwise of VAC to let police make that call which, really, will likely get bumped in turn to an opinion from crown prosecutors.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Somewhere I suspect the was a fairly one sided conversation between the case worker and his supervisor.
Starting like this I suspect btw the caseworker part is like every adult in the various Charlie Brown animated cartoon.
Supervisor: Umm, as you know we've received a complaint and we'd like to hear your version of events..
Caseworker: Wahh-wah wahh wahh wah wahh wah and wah.
Supervisor: You're kidding , right ?
Wah wah wah .
Supervisor; Seriously?
Caseworker: Wah -wah !

 

[ueo]

And careful selection of case workers. Just because someone has a degree in something or other doesn’t make them suitable

And about 20 yrs old with no "life" experiences!

 

[GK .Dundas]

Somewhere I suspect the was a fairly one sided conversation between the case worker and his supervisor.
Starting like this I suspect btw the caseworker part is like every adult in the various Charlie Brown animated cartoon.
Supervisor: Umm, as you know we've received a complaint and we'd like to hear your version of events..
Caseworker: Wahh-wah wahh wahh wah wahh wah and wah.
Supervisor: You're kidding , right ?
Wah wah wah .
Supervisor; Seriously?
Caseworker: Wah -wah !

 

[GK .Dundas]

Apparently something ate most of my post...it much longer.

 

[OldSolduer]

Somewhere I suspect the was a fairly one sided conversation between the case worker and his supervisor.
Starting like this I suspect btw the caseworker part is like every adult in the various Charlie Brown animated cartoon.
Supervisor: Umm, as you know we've received a complaint and we'd like to hear your version of events..
Caseworker: Wahh-wah wahh wahh wah wahh wah and wah.
Supervisor: You're kidding , right ?
Wah wah wah .
Supervisor; Seriously?
Caseworker: Wah -wah !

I beg to differ.

They probably discussed the case worker’s “feelings “ and didn’t raise their voice or leveled any criticism. Because their “feelings” are more important than what this person had done.

 

[The Bread Guy]

If I'm reading this right, someone in the system may have actually put the offer in writing?

Former paralympian tells MPs veterans department offered her assisted death

A paraplegic former member of the Canadian military shocked MPs on Thursday by testifying that the Department of Veterans Affairs offered her, in writing, the opportunity for a medically assisted death — and even offered to provide the equipment. Retired corporal Christine Gauthier, who competed...

ca.news.yahoo.com

Ok, once? Bad actor. Twice? Maybe a few bad actors here & there. In writing? If true, and the letter hasn't been shared publicly yet, starting to feel just a bit more systemic to me.

Here's who else was speaking to the committee yesterday

Minutes - ACVA (44-1) - No. 29 - House of Commons of Canada

Minutes - ACVA (44-1) - No. 29 - House of Commons of Canada

www.ourcommons.ca

 

[mariomike]

— and even offered to provide the equipment.

Nothing new about suicide, but MAiD is something new to me.

From what I understand, it explicitly acknowledges that self-administration of medication should be a viable option.

If that is the case, non-supervised self-administration can lead to complications. ( Regurgitation, regaining consciousness, longer than expected time to death, or never actually became comatose... )

I could see the family panicing and dialing 9-1-1.

What is the appropriate response if the paramedic sent to the scene where the patient is struggling to die and they know ( actually saw the documentation ) that the patient is part of a MaiD process? What if the patient changes their mind...

Can a family member with medical power of attorney supercede the patient's wishes? I don't think so.

The family panics. Paramedics are called in to rescusitate, and know it's a MAiD case.

Or, the paramedics are not told it's a MAiD case...

I'm no lawyer or MAiD SME. Never sent on a MAiD call. Just a retired person with a few hypothetical questions.