Veteran groups seek to influence the 2015 vote

[Jarnhamar]

Maybe if veterans spoke up and actually engaged themselves politically, the public would actually take notice.

Do you see my medals? I fought for your freedom. My friends died for your freedom. Maybe you should really think about voting how I, a veteran who has fought for your freedom, think you should.  Why don't you support us veterans who fought for you and support the military who protected your freedom and listen to us? It's the least you could do.

 

[Altair]

Do you see my medals? I fought for your freedom. My friends died for your freedom. Maybe you should really think about voting how I, a veteran who has fought for your freedom, think you should.  Why don't you support us veterans who fought for you and support the military who protected your freedom and listen to us? It's the least you could do.

Don't give anyone any ideas.

 

[Occam]

Do you see my medals? I fought for your freedom. My friends died for your freedom. Maybe you should really think about voting how I, a veteran who has fought for your freedom, think you should.  Why don't you support us veterans who fought for you and support the military who protected your freedom and listen to us? It's the least you could do.

No.  Absolutely not.  That is not what ABC is saying.

"I am a veteran.  I am more acutely aware of veteran's issues than the average civilian, who does not understand our language nor the bureaucracy of VAC.  Here is where the current government is falling short of its obligations to veterans, explained in terms that you, the public, will understand.  Should you agree that the current government is not addressing the various veterans issues in a responsible manner, I would appreciate that you consider supporting one of these other choices, since the current government is not getting the job done right and does not deserve a further mandate to continue throwing us scraps.  Please familiarize yourself with the other parties' platforms, and choose wisely".

 

[TCM621]

No.  Absolutely not.  That is not what ABC is saying.

"I am a veteran.  I am more acutely aware of veteran's issues than the average civilian, who does not understand our language nor the bureaucracy of VAC.  Here is where the current government is falling short of its obligations to veterans, explained in terms that you, the public, will understand.  Should you agree that the current government is not addressing the various veterans issues in a responsible manner, I would appreciate that you consider supporting one of these other choices, since the current government is not getting the job done right and does not deserve a further mandate to continue throwing us scraps.  Please familiarize yourself with the other parties' platforms, and choose wisely".

That's what you're saying and it is a reasonable position. That is not what the ABC is saying.  As an organization the ABC group is saying "look at me,  I fought for you now vote anyone but conservative and repay the favour."

 

[Strike]

That's what you're saying and it is a reasonable position. That is not what the ABC is saying.  As an organization the ABC group is saying "look at me,  I fought for you now vote anyone but conservative and repay the favour."

And, to further the point, they may not be coming right out and saying it, but it is the impression they give.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

No.  Absolutely not.  That is not what ABC is saying.

FTFY. Now "ABC" doesn't sound like my 6 year old, but rather like adults deserving more than a passing interest from the public.

"I am a veteran.  I am more acutely aware of veteran's issues than the average civilian, who does not understand care about our language nor the bureaucracy of VAC.  Here is where we believe the current government is falling short of its obligations to veterans, explained in terms that you, the public, will understand.  Should you agree that the current government is not addressing the various veterans issues in a responsible manner, I would appreciate that you consider supporting one of these other choices, the *insert party name here* party based on applicable veterans platform since the current government is not getting the job done right and does not deserve a further mandate to continue throwing us scraps we believe that veterans deserve more equitable treatment. Please familiarize yourself with the other parties' platforms, and choose wisely".

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's what you're saying and it is a reasonable position. That is not what the ABC is saying.  As an organization the ABC group is saying "look at me,  I fought for you now vote anyone but conservative and repay the favour."

And, to further the point, they may not be coming right out and saying it, but it is the impression they give.

Exactly.

 

[Occam]

For the last few posters to the thread - unfortunately, I think your observations are more perspective than fact.  Generally speaking, it doesn't seem to be the opinion shared that I'm seeing on most media that I'm watching.

 

[Strike]

For the last few posters to the thread - unfortunately, I think your observations are more perspective than fact.  Generally speaking, it doesn't seem to be the opinion shared that I'm seeing on most media that I'm watching.

When it comes to politics, perception IS fact.

Occam, it's apparent from both this thread and any conversation on this forum about CVA that you closely associated with them and the ABC crowd.  Don't even try to deny it.  So no matter what any of us say, you are going to keep a hardline stance that we are wrong.  We may very well be, but again, we are just reiterating the impressions that we are getting via the media.

 

[Occam]

When it comes to politics, perception IS fact.

Oh my...is that from the PAffO handbook? ;-)

Occam, it's apparent from both this thread and any conversation on this forum about CVA that you closely associated with them and the ABC crowd.  Don't even try to deny it.  So no matter what any of us say, you are going to keep a hardline stance that we are wrong.  We may very well be, but again, we are just reiterating the impressions that we are getting via the media.

On the contrary, I don't believe I've made any attempt to hide the fact that I support both organizations, so your accusatory tone is somewhat puzzling.

I entered this thread with the full knowledge that there are many staunch CPC supporters here, and I had zero expectation of persuading any of them to see things any differently.  Trust me, there is an abundance of lower hanging fruit in that regard.  However, the discussion seemed very one-sided, and I simply wanted to make it clear that there are a large number of veterans (some even right-leaning such as me) who see merit in an ABC campaign, or more vocal advocacy than what the Legion offers.  Once that got tossed out there, other like-minded people chimed in.  Believe it or not, sometimes the atmosphere in this forum is less than conducive to welcoming people to speak up when they feel differently than the herd.  I'm glad that others spoke up and recognized the merits of the campaign.

Some may think that the campaign will be ineffective.  I think the fact that the campaign is out there and getting more media attention than the RCL or traditional veterans advocacy groups will have a greater effect than some will give it credit for.  That said, we'll never really know how much it affected the outcome, so the question really is moot.

 

[TCM621]

Oh my...is that from the PAffO handbook? ;-)

On the contrary, I don't believe I've made any attempt to hide the fact that I support both organizations, so your accusatory tone is somewhat puzzling.

I entered this thread with the full knowledge that there are many staunch CPC supporters here, and I had zero expectation of persuading any of them to see things any differently.  Trust me, there is an abundance of lower hanging fruit in that regard.  However, the discussion seemed very one-sided, and I simply wanted to make it clear that there are a large number of veterans (some even right-leaning such as me) who see merit in an ABC campaign, or more vocal advocacy than what the Legion offers.  Once that got tossed out there, other like-minded people chimed in.  Believe it or not, sometimes the atmosphere in this forum is less than conducive to welcoming people to speak up when they feel differently than the herd.  I'm glad that others spoke up and recognized the merits of the campaign.

Some may think that the campaign will be ineffective.  I think the fact that the campaign is out there and getting more media attention than the RCL or traditional veterans advocacy groups will have a greater effect than some will give it credit for.  That said, we'll never really know how much it affected the outcome, so the question really is moot.

It isn't about CPC support, at least not for me. I have no idea how I will vote this year due to the lack of good options. But ABC is using its status as a veterans group to influence the election.  They are attempting to punish the CPC for their treatment of veterans.

Punitive politics doesn't work. Full stop.  If they dropped the anything but conservative mantra they would be fine in my book.

 

[Occam]

It isn't about CPC support, at least not for me. I have no idea how I will vote this year due to the lack of good options. But ABC is using its status as a veterans group to influence the election.  They are attempting to punish the CPC for their treatment of veterans.

Punitive politics doesn't work. Full stop.  If they dropped the anything but conservative mantra they would be fine in my book.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my support of ABC was not solely based on the government's treatment of veterans.  I have a long memory, and a laundry list of reasons compiled over the last four years for why they don't deserve another kick at the cat.  Some of them involve poor treatment of the military.  Suffice it to say they cover the full spectrum of what the federal government is responsible for.

So in short, I'm not interested in punishing them.  They simply don't deserve another try, given recent past performance, and I'm willing to accept the risks associated with the other parties.  If I choose wrong like I did the last time, I'm sure I'll be onboard with a ABLib or ABNDP campaign in three years.  ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

It isn't about CPC support, at least not for me. I have no idea how I will vote this year due to the lack of good options. But ABC is using its status as a veterans group to influence the election.  They are attempting to punish the CPC for their treatment of veterans.

Punitive politics doesn't work. Full stop.  If they dropped the anything but conservative mantra they would be fine in my book.

I find myself in the same boat. I don't see many options.  The CPC is trying to drum up votes by appealing to peoples latent support of the military and I find it transparent and disgusting.  They've pulled the same shit with a couple other issues I'm concerned about. I don't expect them to keep a single promise they make.

I would be just as pissed off at a bunch of conservatives trying to use their vaunted veteran status like ABC is.

 

[Jed]

I can't speak for anyone else, but my support of ABC was not solely based on the government's treatment of veterans. I have a long memory, and a laundry list of reasons compiled over the last four years for why they don't deserve another kick at the cat.  Some of them involve poor treatment of the military.  Suffice it to say they cover the full spectrum of what the federal government is responsible for.

So in short, I'm not interested in punishing them.  They simply don't deserve another try, given recent past performance, and I'm willing to accept the risks associated with the other parties.  If I choose wrong like I did the last time, I'm sure I'll be onboard with a ABLib or ABNDP campaign in three years.  ;D

I am of the opinion, Occam, that although you have a long memory, it is not long enough to give you a complete and unbiased perspective on this matter.  I believe the main push back you are receiving is due to the Veterans of this organization not maintaining apolitical separation and attempting to 'gang up' on one particular party.

 

[Altair]

I am of the opinion, Occam, that although you have a long memory, it is not long enough to give you a complete and unbiased perspective on this matter.  I believe the main push back you are receiving is due to the Veterans of this organization not maintaining apolitical separation and attempting to 'gang up' on one particular party.

Why do they need to be apolitical?

 

[Strike]

Why do they need to be apolitical?

By being apolitical a group does not exclude ANY veteran for their political leanings.  Unlike the CVA and other ABC veteran groups, which, by their very nature, alienate any veteran who may wish to vote CPC.  It may not be written in stone, but given their activities it is very strongly inferred.

 

[Remius]

Why do they need to be apolitical?

Traditional Veterans groups have more or less strived to remain non-partisan.  This is a bit of a departure, they are not technically a traditional veteran's group so it has a some people's underwear in a knot.  Political activism is sometimes frowned upon given this portfolio. 

 

[George Wallace]

By being apolitical a group does not exclude ANY veteran for their political leanings.  Unlike the CVA and other ABC veteran groups, which, by their very nature, alienate any veteran who may wish to vote CPC.  It may not be written in stone, but given their activities it is very strongly inferred.

I know several Veterans who do not hold the same views of ABC and have been banned from their FB site.  Now explain to me how such a group claims to represent all or most Veterans, again.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I know several Veterans who do not hold the same views of ABC and have been banned from their FB site.  Now explain to me how such a group claims to represent all or most Veterans, again.

I was banned for identifying as a service member and finding the medals and buttons on display for political reasons distasteful.

 

[Occam]

I am of the opinion, Occam, that although you have a long memory, it is not long enough to give you a complete and unbiased perspective on this matter.  I believe the main push back you are receiving is due to the Veterans of this organization not maintaining apolitical separation and attempting to 'gang up' on one particular party.

It's long enough to remember Mulroney at the helm when I joined the CF (and yes, I know you're somewhat older than I).  I remind you that I voted for the CPC three times now, and was quite happy with their performance up until the point where they got a majority, and everything has gone off the rails since.  If you go back about four years on my Facebook feed, you'll see me dismissing comments from some of my left-leaning friends warning me that I would regret Harper gaining a majority.  Since then, I've spent more than enough time with egg on my face trying to explain away boorish behaviour from MPs like Rob Anders and Julian Fantino, explain why MP Maurice Vellacott handed out QDJMs to convicted criminals, explain why F-35s that were supposed to cost x according to the gov't are now expected to cost 2x according to the PBO, explain why this gov't is infatuated with omnibus bills...I could go on, but I won't. 

I'm as comfortable in my position to oppose the CPC this time around as I was in opposing the LPC back in 2006.  If I have any failings, I don't think bias is one of them.

I know several Veterans who do not hold the same views of ABC and have been banned from their FB site.  Now explain to me how such a group claims to represent all or most Veterans, again.

I was blocked from Erin O'Toole's Twitter feed within a day or so of him being appointed Minister of VAC.  Considering I hadn't interacted with him in over a year, I asked him via another means why I had been blocked.  His response?  He didn't know, and couldn't find my Twitter handle in his block list, so he recommended that I open a new Twitter account.  If he can't find my handle in his block list, I really have to wonder how large that list is...