VAC Spending/Downsizing (merged)

[Jed]

Bruce M, I agree with you. As much as we want to take action and do something about this all our efforts seem to be going for naught. It is disheartening to to see all these veteran's groups pulling in different directions. All it does is just fuel the ' poor me, I'm a victim ' mentality.

 

[blackberet17]

I wonder if there is any connection to the change in DMs announced a short while back? Just speculating, and maybe we shouldn't read too much into Uncle Walt's new job.

None.

 

[blackberet17]

Bruce M, I agree with you. As much as we want to take action and do something about this all our efforts seem to be going for naught. It is disheartening to to see all these veteran's groups pulling in different directions. All it does is just fuel the ' poor me, I'm a victim ' mentality.

Which is exactly what the Government is happy to see happen. Division makes the fight harder, and all the voices more difficult to discern.

This is nothing new, either...out of the ashes of many vet orgs in 1915-1920 rose the Legion. If the "newer" generation of veterans (Blais et coy) have decided the Legion is no longer the voice of one, they should be careful to realize they are causing more din and smoke and confusion than will be of benefit to ALL veterans (which is also difficult to do).

 

[Jed]

Which is exactly what the Government is happy to see happen. Division makes the fight harder, and all the voices more difficult to discern.

This is nothing new, either...out of the ashes of many vet orgs in 1915-1920 rose the Legion. If the "newer" generation of veterans (Blais et coy) have decided the Legion is no longer the voice of one, they should be careful to realize they are causing more din and smoke and confusion than will be of benefit to ALL veterans (which is also difficult to do).

Exactly.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Because from all the courses and the multitude of suicide attempts/completions that I have been part of in my vocation in the last 25 years I have reached one conclusion.

When someone truly, truly has decided to end it then there is nothing, zero, nada that can be done to completely stop it.
You may stop this attempt, and consider that a victory, but the bottom line is a true suicidal person has made a choice, has a course of action and finally things make sense to them..........so much sense they wonder why they didn't see it before.   

Money and so-called 'professionals', etc are not going to change this person.  I actually now think that a good percentage of these folks even start feeling guiltier with the help they receive as they now have another thing on their plate. "Why doesn't my mind feel any different?" with all this attention I'm getting?

I'll use the analogy I have come up with for those who think they can "change thoughts"
[this is no disrespect to any orientation]
"I'm heterosexual. There is no course, counselling or form of punishment that is going to make me a homosexual. What thoughts come into my head, come into my head, and there is nothing to be done about that."

Now having said that you can control your actions on your thoughts but it's a life-long struggle that, unlike cheating on your diet, [have we all done that?] only gives you one attempt to get it right/wrong.



But if you were referring to my 'OCAP statement has anyone read a paper in the last 6 months that didn't have a new 'veterans' group screaming about something/somehow they've been wronged?

It's not just suicides though.  It's treatment to allow these members to cope with day to day business.  It's no different then providing the funding to rehab someone from a back injury for example.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Please define your version of "treatment" and get back to me. Thanks.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Fuckin' none..............

I am really starting to get sick of what I see as the start of the 'military welfare state' that's rising up.  OCAP would be proud..........

I acknowledge the experience you have on this subject with your line of work Bruce but I still can't bring myself to agree.  Yes as you point out if someone really wants to kill themselves they're going to; short of tying them down there is nothing we can do to stop them.

That's not always the case though.  Some people are on the edge, pardon the pun, and with help and resources can be brought back and go on to live a balanced and healthy life.    That 1 billion isn't going to help someone dead set on suicide but it would in my opinion help a lot of people who just need some resources.

Martial counseling, addiction problems,  seminars on writing resumes (probably especially important for someone who has grade 10 trying to find a civilian job).  All that money can go a long way to helping current and former military.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Martial counseling, addiction problems,  seminars on writing resumes (probably especially important for someone who has grade 10 trying to find a civilian job).  All that money can go a long way to helping current and former military.

It could also go a long way towards helping those who didn't serve in the military.  Civies have those issues also........
There will NEVER be enough money for anything the Govt. funds, the moment it [funding] goes up for any program, "new needs" suddenly appear along with the groups gathering like squirrels below the chestnut tree.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It could also go a long way towards helping those who didn't serve in the military.  Civies have those issues also........
There will NEVER be enough money for anything the Govt. funds, the moment it [funding] goes up for any program, "new needs" suddenly appear along with the groups gathering like squirrels below the chestnut tree.

For sure, civies obviously have those issues too.  If this money was reallocated to helping other people then that's a good thing, less so if the money found itself being used for a raises for MPs or something.  It would be interesting to learn where this money was sent.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Quite a few medical advances came out of the treatment of military causalities in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. MOney invested in treating PTSD and brain injuries due to blast effects, would have a trickle down effect into treatment for all. Thanks to design, people are surviving events which in a Bren Carrier would likely been fatal and now new medical techniques and protocols are required to treat other types of injuries. Showing the politicians that they could be "World leaders in treatment of blast and PSTD injuries" likely is a better long term proposal than beating them over the head with a stick, despite that being short term enjoyable. 

 

[mariomike]

That's not always the case though.  Some people are on the edge, pardon the pun, and with help and resources can be brought back and go on to live a balanced and healthy life. 

I wonder if the general public is aware of the statistics?

The department I used to work for calculated that for every homicide we were sent to, more than four times that number died by suicide. For every fatality involving a motor vehicle, more than three times that number died by suicide.

That's not counting the number of attempts, which if I recall correctly, were estimated at 25:1.

It would be interesting to know how many were linked to military service.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

For sure, civies obviously have those issues too.  If this money was reallocated to helping other people then that's a good thing, less so if the money found itself being used for a raises for MPs or something.  It would be interesting to learn where this money was sent.

It was "sent" to a) pay society's bills.  The Govt has been sending more money (the vast majority of which is in transfers to individuals) than they have been taking in b) to pay for niche tax cuts like the idiotic income splitting.....

 

[Retired AF Guy]

CBC Radio (Ontario Morning) had an interview with Glen McGregor from the Ottawa Citizen who pointed out this is pretty well standard practice for all Federal departments/agencies who, at the end of the fiscal year return any unspent money back into the government coffers.

One of his points was that the budgets for these departments/agencies are really estimates and for various reasons, sometimes at the end of the fiscal year, they have money left over, which goes back into general revenue.

The other point McGregor made is that this is better than the old practice where at the end of the fiscal year we had the "March Madness" spending spree which, I'm sure many of us are familiar with, where any remaining money was spent on new furniture, computers, courses, trips, etc.

Those were the two main points that I remember from the interview, and while I tried to find the actual interview, so far I haven't had much luck.

 

[Navy_Pete]

For the last several years, we've had big portions of our money held back that was 'allocated' but held 'in reserve'.  I doubt VAC or other big depts are any different.  This way the govt can say they gave so much to each department, then claim an artificial surplus where they made 'efficiencies and savings' by not letting us spend up to allocation.

Pretty nice shell game, but I'm guessing this is mostly a return of money they weren't allowed to actually spend, rather then their typical asshattery of doing things like denying claims the first time, and making claims like blown knees/backs/shoulders were prexisting conditions unrelated to doing CAF work.

 

[dapaterson]

What was the VAC budget over those years?  What overall percentage of spending does $1.1B represent?

By law, government departments cannot spend more than they are allocated, so most are somewhat gun shy to ensure that they do not overspend.

Ah.  Looking at http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1364499-qop-rafferty-lapsed-unspent-money-in-veterans.html#document/p2, we can see the amount and percentage lapsed each year.

It looks as if in years when new money was given VAC was not able to spend it all immediately, so the percentage not spent went up, and then in following years consumption increased.  Or, in other words, new program funding is allocated, and new program spending only kicks in a year or two later.

No conspiracy here - just the regular operations of any bureaucracy.

 

[ModlrMike]

I'll save everyone else the math: average 4.41% year over year. I would submit that's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

 

[Rifleman62]

Since the last few posts are about mental health, you may be interested in this upcoming report:

Planned Reports

All topics and tabling dates subject to change
Reports to Parliament
Fall 2014

Auditor General of Canada Report which includes:

Mental Health Services for Veterans

 

[The Bread Guy]

Here's the latest from the Minister:

Veterans Affairs Minister Julian Fantino said Sunday the department’s $1.1 billion dollars in unused funding over seven years is “not lost money.”

The department was unable to spend more than $1.1 billion of its budget over seven years, and like other departments that are unable to spend their appropriation within the budget year, Veterans Affairs was required to return its unspent funds to the treasury.

But Fantino told a news conference in Halifax that the funding is recycled back into programs for veterans.

“That has taken on a life of its own. It’s totally false in the context that it’s been portrayed,” said Fantino of the lapsed funding at a press conference announcing $200 million over six years to support mental health needs of military members.

Earlier this week, veterans groups were demanding a detailed accounting of which programs had lapsed funding and why. They also accused Ottawa of using it as a deliberate strategy to balance the federal budget.

But Fantino said claims that the unused funds were a strategy to balance the budget are false.

“The funding is allocated and if it’s not spent it’s recycled back into continuing programs and services for veterans. It’s not lost money,” said Fantino.

He called it a technical budget process that does not hamper services and programs for veterans.

“If I can put it bluntly, this is a technical kind of to and fro in the budgeting process of government,” he said.

“That lapsed funding has absolutely nothing to do, in any way shape or form or influence on the services, programs and support that we are committed and continue to be committed to provide to veterans and their families.” ....

 

[brihard]

Since the last few posts are about mental health, you may be interested in this upcoming report:

Planned Reports

All topics and tabling dates subject to change
Reports to Parliament
Fall 2014

Auditor General of Canada Report which includes:

Mental Health Services for Veterans

I am looking forward to it with great interest.

 

[Rifleman62]

The AG report will be made public on Tuesday, that's why the government announced today: 

Feds to spend $200-million on boosting mental health support for soldiers

to get ahead of the report.