USS FITGERALD Collision: June 17, 2017

[Furniture]

Pull your neck in, Chief. I was not criticizing RCN DC skills. I was trying to say the USN crews appear to have done very, very well at saving their ships. It was a complement to say that I don't think we could have done much better. The Arliegh Burke is one tough ship class. I am not sure how a frigate would come out in a similar collision. I never want to find out, either.

And although I am not SeaTrg Staff, I have enough real world experience at DC such that I have a pretty good idea of my arcs. And I am pretty comfortable that I am still in them. If you want my CV, PM me. I will be more than happy to provide you my resume of ships.

Have a great Navy day.

Amen, I'm sick of pontificating from the salty old hands.

Some of us Airmen have more real DC experience than 90% of the navy... We may not wear fancy sailor suits, but we have real experience. An RCN ship hit in the way either MCCAIN or FITZGERALD was would likely have been in as bad a shape or worse. Our only saving grace I most troops have mess decks above the waterline. 

 

[Furniture]

I think I also have a handle on how good crews are in DC at my job at Sea Training Atlantic than to make that statement that they're not. Of course everyone who sails has an opinion including aviators and whoever. I think in my informed opinion stating that our DC of our crews is somehow sub par is ill informed and wrong. If fact I have no doubt in a similar situation we would fair the same and god willing better.

Congrats on the posting... based on how you have responded to this thread I'm glad you're ST(A) and not S(P). I am glad that after PRO they pushed us to be better, but I'm sure ST(A) is better and has better crews...

 

[Stoker]

Congrats on the posting... based on how you have responded to this thread I'm glad you're ST(A) and not S(P). I am glad that after PRO they pushed us to be better, but I'm sure ST(A) is better and has better crews...

I was certainly out of line dismissing yours and others DC and FF knowledge and overreacted in regards to the original posters comments. I'm sure you have plenty of experience in these matters to make an informed decision on what a ships company can do and not do in regards to DC/FF. I am very passionate about our DC and FF and we try to exceed the standard every set of exercises we do and push the crews to do better. Like other comments have already said we face a challenge in a few years to maintain our skillset with skill fade due to combining of the Hull Tech trade but I'm sure we are equal to the challenge whatever calamity we will certainly face.
Please don't make this a WC verses EC thing we are all part of the same Navy despite my overreaction. I'll take my crusty pontificating comments, my fancy sailor suit and secure myself.

Cheers 

 

[jollyjacktar]

An RCN ship hit in the way either MCCAIN or FITZGERALD was would likely have been in as bad a shape or worse. Our only saving grace I most troops have mess decks above the waterline.

I hope we never have to find out.  I was impressed and moved by the professionalism shown by those men in Berthing 2, how the kept their heads and were orderly in egressing from the space.  It's a miracle only 7 were lost, after reading the conditions and challenges they faced.

 

[Stoker]

I hope we never have to find out.  I was impressed and moved by the professionalism shown by those men in Berthing 2, how the kept their heads and were orderly in egressing from the space.  It's a miracle only 7 were lost, after reading the conditions and challenges they faced.

I had the opportunity several months back to go aboard a similar ship in Halifax. I asked to go to the same mess and its like a maze down there. With all the loose equipment, water pouring in and lack of lighting it was small wonder more didn't die. I'm thankful we don't have messing like that.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I was certainly out of line dismissing yours and others DC and FF knowledge and overreacted in regards to the original posters comments. I'm sure you have plenty of experience in these matters to make an informed decision on what a ships company can do and not do in regards to DC/FF. I am very passionate about our DC and FF and we try to exceed the standard every set of exercises we do and push the crews to do better. Like other comments have already said we face a challenge in a few years to maintain our skillset with skill fade due to combining of the Hull Tech trade but I'm sure we are equal to the challenge whatever calamity we will certainly face.
Please don't make this a WC verses EC thing we are all part of the same Navy despite my overreaction. I'll take my crusty pontificating comments, my fancy sailor suit and secure myself.

Cheers

Chief,

Keep being passionate about DC. Good DC reactions have literally saved my life, twice.

I am not happy to hear of the focus on DC being lost now that the Hull Techs are becoming MARTechs. Luckily for me, my sailing days are largely over. Unfortunately, I fear that some future RCN crew is going to learn the hard way that the lack of ownership of the DC skill set by a particular trade will be costly.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I had the opportunity several months back to go aboard a similar ship in Halifax. I asked to go to the same mess and its like a maze down there. With all the loose equipment, water pouring in and lack of lighting it was small wonder more didn't die. I'm thankful we don't have messing like that.

We bring too much crap with us to sea. We can harp all we want for crews to secure for sea, but that doesn't help much when your lockers/racks get forceably relocated or blown open by the bow of another ship. Luckily for us, none of our messes are below the waterline anymore (IIRC).

I was also extremely impressed by how orderly the exit was from that flooding mess. It is a wonder that most of them made it out.

 

[FSTO]

Chief,

Keep being passionate about DC. Good DC reactions have literally saved my life, twice.

I am not happy to hear of the focus on DC being lost now that the Hull Techs are becoming MARTechs. Luckily for me, my sailing days are largely over. Unfortunately, I fear that some future RCN crew is going to learn the hard way that the lack of ownership of the DC skill set by a particular trade will be costly.

Our unending drive to save money and lead change is going to get some fine people killed one day.

 

[Stoker]

Chief,

Keep being passionate about DC. Good DC reactions have literally saved my life, twice.

I am not happy to hear of the focus on DC being lost now that the Hull Techs are becoming MARTechs. Luckily for me, my sailing days are largely over. Unfortunately, I fear that some future RCN crew is going to learn the hard way that the lack of ownership of the DC skill set by a particular trade will be costly.

With the loss of the Hull techs I would imagine we will be training or hoping we train individuals with DC training as specialists. Kind of sounds like Hull Tech's doesn't it. Keep in mind I am seeing a shift of accepting more risk and when we trained for the worse case scenario. Now when abandoning ship was last resort, now may not be.

 

[jollyjacktar]

With the loss of the Hull techs I would imagine we will be training or hoping we train individuals with DC training as specialists. Kind of sounds like Hull Tech's doesn't it. Keep in mind I am seeing a shift of accepting more risk and when we trained for the worse case scenario. Now when abandoning ship was last resort, now may not be.

No, we won't be.  Advanced DC training has been axed with the new trades training.  Once those legacy HT cycle out, it's gone.  And at the moment, HT releases are 3X the norm and accelerating.  It's the young guys departing that is going to hurt the most.  Ol'bastards like me don't matter but the kids are another thing entirely.

I truly do fear for the future and like SKT, my sailing days are gone too.  Thank god.

 

[FSTO]

No, we won't be.  Advanced DC training has been axed with the new trades training.  Once those legacy HT cycle out, it's gone.  And at the moment, HT releases are 3X the norm and accelerating.  It's the young guys departing that is going to hurt the most.  Ol'bastards like me don't matter but the kids are another thing entirely.

I truly do fear for the future and like SKT, my sailing days are gone too.  Thank god.

I wonder who or what is leading this very dangerous COA?

 

[jollyjacktar]

$$$$$ is the root of this evil.  Isn't it always? 

 

[Stoker]

No, we won't be.  Advanced DC training has been axed with the new trades training.  Once those legacy HT cycle out, it's gone.  And at the moment, HT releases are 3X the norm and accelerating.  It's the young guys departing that is going to hurt the most.  Ol'bastards like me don't matter but the kids are another thing entirely.

I truly do fear for the future and like SKT, my sailing days are gone too.  Thank god.

Thats too bad. I thought my days of sailing were over as well but it seems i'm staying at ST(A) for a further 2 years and back to the Kingstons or possibly AOPS.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Keep safe when out on the blue.

 

[FSTO]

In light of the reports of the woes bedeviling the USN, here is an opinion on what is to blame.

There are lessons for Canada here as well as we continue to follow the path of doing the same with less and less.

https://warontherocks.com/2017/11/somethings-wrong-surface-fleet-arent-talking/

 

[Stoker]

In light of the reports of the woes bedeviling the USN, here is an opinion on what is to blame.

There are lessons for Canada here as well as we continue to follow the path of doing the same with less and less.

https://warontherocks.com/2017/11/somethings-wrong-surface-fleet-arent-talking/

Such as the straight 8 watch rotation?

 

[Rifleman62]

Just now:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/16/navy-files-homicide-charges-against-commanders-2-ships-in-deadly-crashes.html

Navy files homicide charges against commanders of 2 ships in deadly crashes - 16 Jan 18

Two Navy commanders will face negligent homicide charges related to the deadly crashes of two ships off Asia last year, the Navy announced Tuesday.

The decision to file charges against service members of the USS Fitzgerald and the USS John S. McCain were decided by Adm. Frank Caldwell, who was given the authority and examined the evidence of what caused the collisions, according to Navy spokesman Capt. Greg Hicks.

Cmdr. Bryce Benson served on the USS Fitzgerald, while Cmdr. Alfredo J. Sanchez served on the USS John S. McCain.

The charges are to be presented at what the military refers to as an Article 32 hearing, which will determine whether the accused are court-martialed.

The USS Fitzgerald collided with a commercial ship in waters off Japan in June, killing seven sailors. Ten sailors were killed when the USS John S. McCain collided with an oil tanker in Southeast Asia in August.

This is a developing story; check back for updates. The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

[winnipegoo7]

"...pour encourager les autres."

 

[jollyjacktar]

Career career, career stops.....

 

[Rifleman62]

I think their careers already had a collision with a brick wall.