USN Laser and Drone swarms....

[NavyShooter]

Saw an interesting video last evening discussing the USN's use of their fancy new laser on the USS Portland.

Also some VERY interesting discussion about drone swarm encounters off the coast of California in their OP Areas - the question of where the drones come from was left hanging - and it seems from the video as though they are NOT part of an exercise, rather, potentially state actors somehow deploying drones in USN training areas offshore.

Some very interesting info, some really good questions in the comments below the video.

My thoughts - is this an isolated situation? Was this a US Training exercise with the drones launched from a US ship or aircraft, or were these someone else's drones?

There's far more questions than answers.

How would/will the RCN deal with this when we encounter drone swarm technologies? Broad spectrum active jamming will probably work.

Some things to ponder.

 

[dimsum]

How would/will the RCN deal with this when we encounter drone swarm technologies? Broad spectrum active jamming will probably work.

So will this.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So will this.

View attachment 67752

Lol if it works

 

[NavyShooter]

1583 rounds in the drum, bursts of 60-200 rounds - maximum of 26 bursts (60 rds), supposing it takes 2-3 bursts to get each drone, you'll only take down 8-10 drones from a swarm...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Airburst ammo is likley more effective, this is staged but give you an idea.

 

[Swampbuggy]

1583 rounds in the drum, bursts of 60-200 rounds - maximum of 26 bursts (60 rds), supposing it takes 2-3 bursts to get each drone, you'll only take down 8-10 drones from a swarm...

Would something like the 35mm millennium with fragmentation ammunition work better?

 

[blacktriangle]

My thoughts - is this an isolated situation? Was this a US Training exercise with the drones launched from a US ship or aircraft, or were these someone else's drones?

There's far more questions than answers.

It could have been testing & evaluation of a defense program, some kind of red team exercise etc...perhaps deployed from a sub/UUV. If it was operations conducted by another state/non-state actor, they obviously have some technical prowess & don't appear too concerned about potential attribution. I can understand how that potentiality would be unsettling to some.

I'm sure all relevant collection is being reviewed by the appropriate stakeholders.

 

[NavyShooter]

Drone Swarms That Harassed Navy Ships Off California Demystified In New Documents

A major release of documents provides the highest level of detail yet about mysterious drone swarms involving U.S. Navy ships off California.

www.thedrive.com

Additional detail...launched from a Hong Kong based cargo ship apparently.

 

[Underway]

For Canada's response, the best anti-drone that we have currently is the 57mm 3P ammunition. Each burst is about 400m squared of area, and with its rate of fire you can do a 10 round burst a tear a big hole in a drone swarm.

ECM is also a good response, but part of that problem is if you use it then the enemy can figure out how to counter it. Hard to counter a 57mm.

 

[KevinB]

EMP

 

[FJAG]

For Canada's response, the best anti-drone that we have currently is the 57mm 3P ammunition. Each burst is about 400m squared of area, and with its rate of fire you can do a 10 round burst a tear a big hole in a drone swarm.

ECM is also a good response, but part of that problem is if you use it then the enemy can figure out how to counter it. Hard to counter a 57mm.

I'd say one round into the bridge of the mother ship ought to do it.

 

[NavyShooter]

I'd say one round into the bridge of the mother ship ought to do it.

That's what HARPOON is for...

Agree on the 3P solution though - at least on the current platform. I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of RAMSES type jamming system that'd be available as well though? Most (commercial) drones operate on a similar frequency band, and jamming that would make a lot of sense. I cannot foresee them being easily hardened against that sort of countermeasure.

 

[Underway]

That's what HARPOON is for...

Agree on the 3P solution though - at least on the current platform. I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of RAMSES type jamming system that'd be available as well though? Most (commercial) drones operate on a similar frequency band, and jamming that would make a lot of sense. I cannot foresee them being easily hardened against that sort of countermeasure.

There are drone-specific EW solutions out there that are pretty much as plug and play as run an extension cord and bolt down somewhere.

 

[quadrapiper]

There are drone-specific EW solutions out there that are pretty much as plug and play as run an extension cord and bolt down somewhere.

How much of a challenge would bolting one of those onto a frigate be as far as deconfliction with every other transmitter and receiver?

 

[PuckChaser]

Your only deconfliction issues would be if something else in the fleet used a system in the same frequency band, or a harmonic thereof. I have a feeling there's already a ton of self-defense ECM on modern warships so adding in smaller, directional counter UAS systems would not be that much of a hurdle.

 

[Kirkhill]

The game continues to evolve quickly

SPEAR Mini-Cruise Missile Getting An Electronic Warfare Variant To Swarm With Is A Huge Deal

The advent of a swarm of networked SPEAR strike and electronic warfare missiles is very bad news for enemy air defenses and the targets they protect.

www.thedrive.com

Apache Hellfire



Tornado Brimstone



Delivery Van Brimstone



And now SPEAR-3 and SPEAR-EW Swarms

Simplest launcher - Swedish RBS-17 variant

BRIMSTONE | Air Dominance, TACTICAL STRIKE | MBDA

Brimstone provides a combat proven, low collateral, close air support weapon offering the fast jet operator the unique capability of engaging a wide range of target types.

www.mbda-systems.com

SPEAR | Air Dominance, TACTICAL STRIKE | MBDA

The next generation air launched SPEAR is MBDA’s response to a component of the UK’s Selective Precision Effects At Range air launched requirement.

www.mbda-systems.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Related

This Containerized Launcher For The XQ-58A Valkyrie Combat Drone Could Be A Game Changer

The system would be air, rail, road, or sea transportable, allowing for long-range, hard-hitting drone swarms to make unpredictable attacks.

www.thedrive.com

Saab-Boeing Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb strikes sea target at 130 km

Saab and Boeing conducted a successful long-range test-firing of the Ground-Launched Small Diameter Bomb against a target at sea in Norway

www.thedefensepost.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Tell me again about the need to commit Reserve PYs to the maintenance of 105mm C3 skills?

 

[GR66]

Tell me again about the need to commit Reserve PYs to the maintenance of 105mm C3 skills?

Ideally Reserve PYs for Tube Artillery skills (not necessarily C3 skills) as well as Reserve PY's for Precision Strike Artillery skills and Reserve PY's for GBAD skills. All three are complementary and equally necessary for an effective military.

 

[KevinB]

Ideally Reserve PYs for Tube Artillery skills (not necessarily C3 skills) as well as Reserve PY's for Precision Strike Artillery skills and Reserve PY's for GBAD skills. All three are complementary and equally necessary for an effective military.

I’m not sure LRF/PSA or GBAD need (or should be) to be a PRes task.

Long Range Fires are managed generally higher than Bde, so while PRes could crew launchers and ammunition vehicles, the entire HQ aspect would be regular force.

GBAD is handled at Bde and Higher - again depending upon platform PRes personnel could crew vehicles/launchers and ammo supply systems - but the C&C for that would be a regular force role.