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US Economy

cupper said:
Don't be blaming Obama for the rising WORLD price of oil. Blame the speculators in the market, the Gulf States and Saudis, and the Ethanol lobby.

And speaking of ethanol, you can blame the diversion of corn to produce ethanol for the rising price of food as well.

Price information comes from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Administration policy delaying or obstructing new sources of energy such as offshore drilling permits in the US Gulf of Mexico and the Keystone XL pipeline, or the closure of US refinineries due to increased regulatory burdens reduce additional supply to meet rising demand, driving up costs higher than they might otherwise be.

Ethanol subsidies and regulatory requirments to add ethanol to gasoline are also government policy supported by this administration, and direct subsidies only ended this year after action by the Congress.

So yes, you can blame Obama.
 
US production and refining capacity is far to small to actually impact world prices significantly. Quite a while back I posted a link to a study showing that if all the known resources were brought online and into full production immediately (which is, notably, impossible), the impact on the global price of oil would be more or less negligible. So, no. We can't really blame Obama.

I'd go looking for the study again, but I know you won't read it anyhow.

Thucydides said:
Price information comes from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Administration policy delaying or obstructing new sources of energy such as offshore drilling permits in the US Gulf of Mexico and the Keystone XL pipeline, or the closure of US refinineries due to increased regulatory burdens reduce additional supply to meet rising demand, driving up costs higher than they might otherwise be.

Ethanol subsidies and regulatory requirments to add ethanol to gasoline are also government policy supported by this administration, and direct subsidies only ended this year after action by the Congress.

So yes, you can blame Obama.
 
Redeye said:
US production and refining capacity is far to small to actually impact world prices significantly. Quite a while back I posted a link to a study showing that if all the known resources were brought online and into full production immediately (which is, notably, impossible), the impact on the global price of oil would be more or less negligible. So, no. We can't really blame Obama.

I'd go looking for the study again, but I know you won't read it anyhow.

Watch your tone.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
A considerable amount to Canada, particularly Eastern Canada. Canadian Oil from Newfoundland/Labrador is refined in Houston TX, and shipped back to Canada.
 
Rifleman62 said:
A considerable amount to Canada, particularly Eastern Canada. Canadian Oil from Newfoundland/Labrador is refined in Houston TX, and shipped back to Canada.

I thought the east coast had a refinery.....ComebyChance springs to mind.....
 
WRT capacity and price issues, there is an article posted upthread on how oil prices tumbled in very short order after President Bush signed an executive order allowing new drilling. The market reacted to information far ahead of any possible oil production created by the permits.

World markets are now aware of the huge new discoveries in the United States, but are also aware of the administrations obstructions to development of thee resources.  Since the existing supply is all that is in play right now, any obstructions limiting supply create negative market signals which are also acted upon.

WRT the newfoundland refinery, I believe there was a clause on the sale that it could only be used for local consumption (Newfoundland and Labrador) and excess production was for export. I am dubious about the legality of that clause, but someone with more background in law might expand on this.
 
However, when Petro Canada sold the refinery, it stipulated that neither Newfoundland Energy nor any subsequent buyer could sell any product it refined at Come By Chance to the Canadian market – with the exception of Newfoundland and Labrador. As a result, the refinery exports up to 90 per cent of its production, primarily to the United States, and sells the remaining 10 per cent in Newfoundland and Labrador.

http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/comebychance.html
 
As I pointed out in the election forum, the death of the Keystone Pipeline has little effect on the current movement of Tar Sands oil into US markets. There are plenty of other options available, including tankers from Richmond BC, the huge network of pipelines currently shipping oil to the US, and as I also pointed out, one company has applied for a permit to reverse the flow of a line coming into Ontario.

Keystone is essentially a non-issue when it comes to the state of the US Economy. The estimated number of jobs it will create were inflated. The oil is still getting to the markets, and the stock markets had little reaction to the so called decision to "kill" it.
 
GAP said:
I thought the east coast had a refinery.....ComebyChance springs to mind.....

There are refineries in Saint John (Irving) and Dartmouth (Esso). The oil refined there is imported from various places, including Venezuela and the Middle East. As I understand it, it's cheaper bringing oil by supertankers in to those refineries than overland from the West. The Come-By-Chance Refinery is owned by the Korea National Oil Company currently, having changed hands repeatedly.

The Maritimes also gets oil from the Ultramar/Valero Refinery at Levis, Quebec, I think most of it is shipped by barge as Ultramar has a fuel dock in Eastern Passage.
 
cupper said:
As I pointed out in the election forum, the death of the Keystone Pipeline has little effect on the current movement of Tar Sands oil into US markets. There are plenty of other options available, including tankers from Richmond BC, the huge network of pipelines currently shipping oil to the US, and as I also pointed out, one company has applied for a permit to reverse the flow of a line coming into Ontario.

Keystone is essentially a non-issue when it comes to the state of the US Economy. The estimated number of jobs it will create were inflated. The oil is still getting to the markets, and the stock markets had little reaction to the so called decision to "kill" it.

I would argue that it is a HUGE issue.  Of course there are existing pipelines, but nowhere near what is needed to get the expected increases in capacity to market. 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/11/22/oil-sands-output-to-triple-by-2035-report/

When you couple our almost daily increases in production with the Mexican's almost daily drops in production, it becomes clear that if the US intends to continue consuming oil in the manner to which they are accustomed, then they will need more and more Canadian oil.  Not to get all 'peak oil', but the fact of the matter is that many of the worlds conventional oil fields are in decline.  This includes the major conventional fields in Canada, US and Mexico that the current pipeline network was mostly built to support.

Keystone isn't an answer to getting our commodity to market.  Its only an incremental step.  We have the 3rd largest reserves of oil on the planet, yet place 6th in production.  AEUB data shows that the oilsands produced 1.126m b/d in 2006 and predicts 3m b/d by 2020, 5m b/d by 2030.

As Mexico becomes less able to maintain their output, Canada can fill the void, but only if we can get it to market.  Just my  :2c:
As much as we need Keystone, we also need increased refining capacity and better access to Asia.  I don't think there is any question this pipeline and others will be built, just not in an election year.





 
A sad, sad comparison. Numbers always tell the real story:

http://blog.american.com/2012/01/is-it-unfair-to-compare-the-obama-and-reagan-economic-recoveries-no/

Is it unfair to compare the Obama and Reagan economic recoveries? No
By James Pethokoukis

January 28, 2012, 9:11 am
Ronald Reagan inherited a Long Recession. The economy declined 0.3 percent in 1980, grew at a subpar 2.5 percent in 1981, and then plunged 1.9 percent in 1982. The lengthy downturn was really the culmination of more than a decade of bad economic policy. But the Reagan Recovery was stunning. GDP rose 4.5 percent in 1983 and 7.2 percent in 1984. It was Morning in America, and Reagan won reelection by a landslide.

Barack Obama also inherited a Long Recession. According the National Bureau of Economic Research, the U.S. economy entered recession in 2007 and stayed there until June 2009. But the Obama Recovery has been terribly weak. The economy grew at a 2.8 percent pace in the second half of 2009, 3.0 percent in 2010, and — according to new Commerce Department data – 1.7 percent in 2011. We’ll see what happens in the 2012 election, but Obama’s current approval rating is 43 percent, according to Gallup.

As economist Lawrence Kudlow of CNBC notes:

After 10 quarters of recovery, the Reagan growth rate was 6 percent. Compare that with Obama’s 2.4 percent. Or compare Obama’s 2.4 percent with the 4.6 percent post-World War II average recovery rate after 10 quarters.

But Obamacrats and other liberals say the Reagan-Obama comparison is unfair. After all, Reagan didn’t have to deal with a collapsed housing bubble. Obama, they contend, was dealt an near-impossible hand and played it about the best he could. Americans needs to lower their expectations, and Reaganites need to quit making the comparison.

The reality: Housing is usually a key contributor to GDP growth during the early stages of a recovery. As a 2011 St. Louis Fed analysis points out, “Somewhat surprisingly, the housing component of GDP (more formally known as residential investment) tends to be a solid contributor to GDP growth during a recovery. Historically, residential investment has contributed only about 5 percent of GDP—a small share considering the consumption component is close to 70 percent. Nevertheless  …  it can contribute substantially to the GDP growth rate for short periods of time.”

According to Commerce Department data, residential investment added 1.33 percentage points to GDP in 1983, 0.64 in 1984. By contrast, residential investment subtracted 0.11 percentage point in 2010 and 0.03 in 2011.  (See chart below.)

But here’s the thing: Subtract the housing rebound from the Reagan Recovery and GDP still grows twice as fast as during the Obama Recovery. For example, the economy grew 7.2 percent in the second full year of the Reagan Recovery. Without residential investment, it would have grown 6.6 percent vs. 1.7 percent growth in 2011, Obama’ s second full year of recovery. Score one for the Gipper … and for supply-side/Schumpeterian economics over demand-side/Keynesian economics.

I also ran across an interesting bit of commentary from former Fed governor Kevin Warsh on this very issue  (via International Economy magazine) of blaming housing for the weak recovery. It is a bit long but worth reading:

Only by the standard of the deepest, darkest day of the crisis is this economic recovery even plausibly satisfactory. On a historical basis, the economic recovery is modest, and unacceptably so. Some describe this recovery as the “new normal” and suggest we should just get used to it. Others suggest that recoveries from global financial crises are inevitably weak, and so we should lower our standards. I call this the new malaise. Instead of lowering our standards, we should improve our policies and raise our expectations.

So why is the recovery weak? First, the symptoms have been confused with the disease. Some policymakers have tried to steer a housing recovery without an economic recovery. So there have been a dozen or so programs to “fix” the housing crisis on the theory that once that’s repaired, the broader economy will come roaring back. These housing programs, however well intended, have done little, in my view, to help the housing markets or the real economy. A housing recovery will begin when real household incomes improve, not before.

Second, intentions aside, the broad suite of macroeconomic policies has tended to favor the big over the small—big banks have been advantaged over small banks; big businesses have been favored versus small businesses; and those big multinationals with access to the global economy and global financial markets have benefited more than those on the front lines of job creation.

Third, macroeconomic policies, in my view, have been preoccupied with the here and now, not the long term. So going back several years, Washington has compensated for a faltering economy with temporary programs that plug quarterly GDP arithmetic, but do far less to support long run growth. Massive stimulus has proven not to be as efficacious as many academic models would suggest.

In short, better policies, a better economy. The current economic recovery could be a lot stronger.
 
In the State of the Union Address by Obama I remember one spot as I flipped through the rhetoric to something  like Jeopardy, about him wanting to set up a homebuyer/mortgage program.

The upshot I got in the few minutes I listened was that he would set up to refinance at a low rate, all these high value mortgages for a small fee, minimal paperwork. I didn't catch who would do it, but I assume it would be Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac.

I remember him making the comment that this would allow the banks to get their finances in order.



 
GAP said:
I didn't catch who would do it, but I assume it would be Fanny Mae/Freddy Mac.

In other words, the fox will once again be in charge of the hen house.
 
As I've said before. Instead of giving this money directly to the mortgage companies and banks, they should give it to the homeowners.

The homeowners pay off their mortgage, have their home clear, and the mortgage companies and banks end up with the money again, but without the interest and hold on the homeowner.

Except for the set up and operation of a monster program like this, it would cost the government and taxpayer way less in the long run and without destituting half the population.

I don't proffess to understand high finance and the politics that go with it, but that's my Joe Sixpack view on it.
 
recceguy said:
As I've said before. Instead of giving this money directly to the mortgage companies and banks, they should give it to the homeowners.

The homeowners pay off their mortgage, have their home clear, and the mortgage companies and banks end up with the money again, but without the interest and hold on the homeowner.

Except for the set up and operation of a monster program like this, it would cost the government and taxpayer way less in the long run and without destituting half the population.

I don't proffess to understand high finance and the politics that go with it, but that's my Joe Sixpack view on it.

You hit it right when you mentioned "monster" program. But It's hard to argue the idea, because the current mess is causing massive distortions that will also have terrible long run impact. But it's worth trying to figure out how it could work. I was thinking about such an idea not long ago. You'd need to start, I think, by coming up with a a reasonable assessment of values based on current market conditions in each area, and set about a mortgage restructure around those values to allow people to keep their homes. The lenders should be forced to eat their losses, as they were the ones who made the loans to begin with,  They're going to take hits anyhow, because in non-recourse states they can only get back whatever the collateral brings.

It'd be almost impossible to actually execute, but essentially a reset of the housing market followed by a complete restructure of how mortgage markets in the US works with strong regulations (ours are a good start) is probably, as you suggest, cheaper in the long run.
 
Does this mean the US government is going to remove all of its pressure on lending institutions to make risky loans priced below what the risk demands?  I doubt it.  It takes a special kind of asshole to start a witch hunt against people for following rules his administration enforces.
 
Like the holders of Greek bonds, mortgage lenders will have to take a haircut. Home valuation is estimated to be anywhere from 15 to 25% above the "real" market value, depending on where you are.

The sad thing is many of the mortgage lenders would not have gotten into that situation without a series of perverse government incentives (some dating back to the Carter Administration), so they and their investors will take that haircut without recourse.
 
The mortgage lenders have some serious problems ahead,fraud is the big one. Shell company the industry has used to "create assignments" and not recording assignments of notes and mortgages as they go from the originating bank to the investment trust creating a chain of faulty title.When a loan defaults the bank is forced to recreate documents[fraud] so that they can foreclose.One big mess and we are only seeing the tip.
 
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