Updated Army Service Dress project

[Eye In The Sky]

I'd settle for the CAF switching to Thursday boots... The leather takes a polish, and they are made the old fashioned way, so they last.

But you don’t have to polish ankle boots/oxfords anymore…

 

[rmc_wannabe]

But you don’t have to polish ankle boots/oxfords anymore…

"Must be clean at all times" is the generic CAFism.

The proviso above it states all dress shall be in adherence with any subsequent dress instructions issued by individual elements for wear of said uniforms.

And wouldn't you know it, most CA and Regimental/Corps instructions indicate that having footwear shone to a high standard for No 1 and 3 dress is the expectation.

Keep your RCAF heresy to yourself....

 

[markppcli]

But you don’t have to polish ankle boots/oxfords anymore…

Uh says who?

Fuck I actually read the dress manual and it doesn’t expressly say so. I wonder if it’s in the dress instruction ? Maybe I’m just perpetuating a lie.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

"Must be clean at all times" is the generic CAFism.

The proviso above it states all dress shall be in adherence with any subsequent dress instructions issued by individual elements for wear of said uniforms.

And wouldn't you know it, most CA and Regimental/Corps instructions indicate that having footwear shone to a high standard for No 1 and 3 dress is the expectation.

Keep your RCAF heresy to yourself....

Without going to the pub, the wording is “commanders can standardize the wearing of uniforms…subj to overall command direction”.

Overall command direction would = CDS issued pubs, no?

The wording about polishing was there in previous versions but is removed now. Seems pretty reasonable to assume that was done on purpose.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Uh says who?

Fuck I actually read the dress manual and it doesn’t expressly say so. I wonder if it’s in the dress instruction ? Maybe I’m just perpetuating a lie.

Ya - it was removed.

 

[Ostrozac]

The new

Dumb question: If LU will be issuing Patrols, what is the point of the DEU 3 (tunic, shirt and tie)?

For the vast majority of folks, the only time they wear DEU is on parade. So, if Remembrance Day and other parades will be in Patrols, and we don’t wear the DEU tunic much otherwise, why have it or the long sleeve shirt / tie?

DEU 3 is appropriate for court martials and testifying in front of parliamentary committees, when full high collar scarlets/blues are considered a little too fancy for the occasion. The RCMP similarly have a service dress that is a step down from red serge. Now, whether everyone needs all of these uniforms is a good question — issuing these uniforms as needed on a sliding scale makes some sense, but would require a supply system that is better stocked and significantly more agile than what we have now.

 

[Furniture]

Without going to the pub, the wording is “commanders can standardize the wearing of uniforms…subj to overall command direction”.

Overall command direction would = CDS issued pubs, no?

The wording about polishing was there in previous versions but is removed now. Seems pretty reasonable to assume that was done on purpose.

I suspect it was removed because you can't polish brown rough-out boots that are most commonly worn on a daily basis, rather than to stop people from polishing shoes/boots for parades.

I'm pretty sure a parade order can tell people to polish their boots for the occasion, as it doesn't counter any orders in the dress manual, meerly enhances them.

 

[daftandbarmy]

But you don’t have to polish ankle boots/oxfords anymore…

 

[Edward Campbell]

Dumb question: If LU will be issuing Patrols, what is the point of the DEU 3 (tunic, shirt and tie)?

For the vast majority of folks, the only time they wear DEU is on parade. So, if Remembrance Day and other parades will be in Patrols, and we don’t wear the DEU tunic much otherwise, why have it or the long sleeve shirt / tie?

Not a dumb question, at all; it's a Great Question: why DEU, at all. We obviously need combat uniforms of many and varied sorts; and we need "work dress," too - again of a wide variety of sorts for "dirty" work (cleaning tanks in thaw wash racks after an exercise) and not so dirty work (sorting records on a computer terminal in an air-conditioned office). And I agree that we need a parade uniform and for the Army a patrol dress uniform, properly fitted, with the "right" headdress would do just fine - blue for many corps and regiments, green for others, maybe even get rid of scarlets, entirely. So 3 orders of dress: operations, work and parade - dozens, of sub-sets to meet individual needs .. but no ties, ever!

 

[McG]

.. but no ties, ever!

So, gorgets instead?

 

[Edward Campbell]

So, gorgets instead?
View attachment 80596

OMG! Better than silly hats!

 

[OldSolduer]

OMG! Better than silly hats!

What's wrong with silly hats???

 

[MacNav63]

Not a dumb question, at all; it's a Great Question: why DEU, at all. We obviously need combat uniforms of many and varied sorts; and we need "work dress," too - again of a wide variety of sorts for "dirty" work (cleaning tanks in thaw wash racks after an exercise) and not so dirty work (sorting records on a computer terminal in an air-conditioned office). And I agree that we need a parade uniform and for the Army a patrol dress uniform, properly fitted, with the "right" headdress would do just fine - blue for many corps and regiments, green for others, maybe even get rid of scarlets, entirely. So 3 orders of dress: operations, work and parade - dozens, of sub-sets to meet individual needs .. but no ties, ever!

I still have my Dad’s pre-unification khaki service dress and blue patrols. Don’t know how often he ever wore the latter, except once for a court martial. Interesting thing about the blues, they have two sets of shoulder boards with his rank insignia, one cloth for undress and one braided for dress.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not a dumb question, at all; it's a Great Question: why DEU, at all. We obviously need combat uniforms of many and varied sorts; and we need "work dress," too - again of a wide variety of sorts for "dirty" work (cleaning tanks in thaw wash racks after an exercise) and not so dirty work (sorting records on a computer terminal in an air-conditioned office). And I agree that we need a parade uniform and for the Army a patrol dress uniform, properly fitted, with the "right" headdress would do just fine - blue for many corps and regiments, green for others, maybe even get rid of scarlets, entirely. So 3 orders of dress: operations, work and parade - dozens, of sub-sets to meet individual needs .. but no ties, ever!

Why not just two ?

Operations and Parade. With anything higher than parade being provided either by the individual (eg Mess dress) or the organization (eg Scarlets and bearskins).

Operations is work.

Why do we insist on people wearing uncomfortable variations of our DEUs because they are in an office ?

 

[GR66]

Why not just two ?

Operations and Parade. With anything higher than parade being provided either by the individual (eg Mess dress) or the organization (eg Scarlets and bearskins).

Operations is work.

Why do we insist on people wearing uncomfortable variations of our DEUs because they are in an office ?

I think the Work uniform would be so you're not wasting an expensive CADPAT uniform on a cubicle dweller. Only wear the expensive fabrics when actually on ops to save wear and tear.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think the Work uniform would be so you're not wasting an expensive CADPAT uniform on a cubicle dweller. Only wear the expensive fabrics when actually on ops to save wear and tear.

The counter to that is that the NECU/COMBAT uniforms will last longer in an office setting and should offset some ( Most ? ) of the cost difference.

Especially seeing as our LU provided clothing is of such poor quality that causes higher rates of replacement.

 

[Edward Campbell]

So, gorgets instead?
View attachment 80596

Why not just two ?

Operations and Parade. With anything higher than parade being provided either by the individual (eg Mess dress) or the organization (eg Scarlets and bearskins).

Operations is work.

Why do we insist on people wearing uncomfortable variations of our DEUs because they are in an office ?

Fair ... I don't advocate "uncomfortable variations of DEU." I think an acceptable "garrison dress" might well be easy-care (no shining) boots or shoes, permanent-press/wash and wear trousers (chinos), a golf shirt plus a sweater, windbreaker and parka. My only objection to combat uniforms being the day-by-day "work dress" is that one of my loggie friends told me that 1. our combat uniforms are very, very expensive, and 2. they are in short supply. Having generals and CWOs wearing them in the office seems a bit wasteful.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Fair ... I don't advocate "uncomfortable variations of DEU." I think an acceptable "garrison dress" might well be easy-care (no shining) boots or shoes, permanent-press/wash and wear trousers (chinos), a golf shirt plus a sweater, windbreaker and parka. My only objection to combat uniforms being the day-by-day "work dress" is that one of my loggie friends told me that 1. our combat uniforms are very, very expensive, and 2. they are in short supply. Having generals and CWOs wearing them in the office seems a bit wasteful.

They are more expensive. BUT people keep them in their closet anyways when working at HQs or other office settings, as they are on the SOI. Its not as if every posted out of a field unit returns their combats on clearing out. Field kit, maybe but not often.

And the ware at tare on them will be less in an office setting.

 

[Kilted]

Why not just two ?

Operations and Parade. With anything higher than parade being provided either by the individual (eg Mess dress) or the organization (eg Scarlets and bearskins).

Operations is work.

Why do we insist on people wearing uncomfortable variations of our DEUs because they are in an office ?

That is essentially what it is right now. No 1's are largely provided by the regimental associations, senates, trusts, etc. Mess and Patrols are at the member's expense. The awkward situation is occurring in some places where individuals are expected to have patrols.

 

[Furniture]

That is essentially what it is right now. No 1's are largely provided by the regimental associations, senates, trusts, etc. Mess and Patrols are at the member's expense. The awkward situation is occurring in some places where individuals are expected to have patrols.

No. 1 is DEU with medals, belts, and gloves. No. 1A is DEU with medals.

I believe the orders of dress you are referring to are No. 1B(full dress), 1C(patrol dress), and 1D(patrol with ribbons).

Dress instructions | Annex A Ceremonial dress - No. 1 - Canada.ca