University Training Plan NCM (UTPNCM) 2005 - 2018 [Merged]

[George Wallace]

You have to be that guy don't you? 

Well......If that is how you wrote up all your documentation and such for approval......Someone may have decided that you were not exactly what they wanted......:dunno:

 

[sidemount]

Damn, and here I thought I could make it through the rest of my career still signing my name in bright red crayon. Guess I'm going to have to give them back to the Lt.  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

Damn, and here I thought I could make it through the rest of my career still signing my name in bright red crayon. Guess I'm going to have to give them back to the Lt.  ;D

;D

I was going to reply that you could get posted to a certain Unit, but it has been disbanded.

 

[sidemount]

;D

I was going to reply that you could get posted to a certain Unit, but it has been disbanded.

:rofl:

 

[trooper142]

Spoke with my BPSO this morning, he said he got word that the board has finally sat.  He told me that offers should start arriving this week and that if you don't hear anything by the end of this month, it is a good indication that you will have to try again next year.

So ill take this to mean that the numbers for fiscal year 15/16 have been released finally, which was the reason I was told for the delay.

Or am I reading this wrong lol?

 

[MJP]

So ill take this to mean that the numbers for fiscal year 15/16 have been released finally, which was the reason I was told for the delay.

Or am I reading this wrong lol?

SIP for UTPNCM is set from the previous FY.  The numbers generally stay pretty static with a bit of movement to allow for shortfalls in various officer production programs.  I don't have link for the DIN SIP numbers but it is on the site somewhere.

 

[sidemount]

SIP for UTPNCM is set from the previous FY.  The numbers generally stay pretty static with a bit of movement to allow for shortfalls in various officer production programs.  I don't have link for the DIN SIP numbers but it is on the site somewhere.

Speaking of the SIP, I had a link on the DIN to it, as well as CF entry standards. It all seems to be link dead now. Does anyone have those links that still work and wouldn't mind PMing them to me?

 

[busyinbrussels]

For people who have gotten the offers before, how did they come?

Did they go through your OR, directly to your CO or directly to you?

Some of us have CO's that aren't at work all that often, and it would suck if an offer was sitting in his email for two weeks.

 

[MJP]

For people who have gotten the offers before, how did they come?

Did they go through your OR, directly to your CO or directly to you?

Some of us have CO's that aren't at work all that often, and it would suck if an offer was sitting in his email for two weeks.

Through your OR + account.  COs generally don't get routine messages.

 

[mizzenmast]

For people who have gotten the offers before, how did they come?

Did they go through your OR, directly to your CO or directly to you?

Some of us have CO's that aren't at work all that often, and it would suck if an offer was sitting in his email for two weeks.

I agree with the last post. Talk to your OR or more importantly your Chief Clerk, my message was in the routine traffic for my unit. There is a time sensitivity with new TOS and CO's concurrence on a UTPNCM selection so normally an OR will not sit on one. If I was waiting for a message I'd be sure and have informed that CClk or the clerk who handles message traffic that one might be inbound so they can keep an eye out.

That being said I've been on this forum for 4 years, and literally talked to dozens of UT's while I was going through the process, no one that I have encountered missed their chance to UT by the message not finding them.

Best of luck to all, I know how much the waiting sucks. As someone who did not get a message his first year applying I can tell you that when you finally do get selected it is worth it, keep your head up if no message comes. It's not the end of the world, just a new hill to climb.

Mizzen.

 

[busyinbrussels]

Another week down with no word....

I wonder if they realize some of us might have to sell houses and move across the country???

 

[Melbatoast]

Another week down with no word....

I wonder if they realize some of us might have to sell houses and move across the country???

Not to sound like a crusty fool, but that's your problem. And it's a teeny, tiny one compared to the deal you get via UTP.

The year I got selected, I didn't get my offer until end Apr, was in Halifax on a 6 month career course, and hadn't even applied to a university yet (long story). It all works out, and ends up about as sweet a gig as you'll find in this outfit.

 

[Ostrozac]

Not to sound like a crusty fool, but that's your problem. And it's a teeny, tiny one compared to the deal you get via UTP.

The year I got selected, I didn't get my offer until end Apr, was in Halifax on a 6 month career course, and hadn't even applied to a university yet (long story). It all works out, and ends up about as sweet a gig as you'll find in this outfit.

I too, have an issue with the late timelines for UTPNCM boards, but it's not because it's a burden on the member. The member applied for the program, if he gets an offer on short notice, it's entirely his decision to accept/reject. Instead I feel that it's a burden on the losing unit and the losing trade. The board sitting so late means that the posting plot for the losing MOSID is already finalized, posting messages have been cut, and the giant Tetris game played by the career manager is almost over. Then the UT board sits, and X number of people leave their home MOSIDs for the BTL. That leaves holes in random places, with reduced ability for the career managers to fill priority postings.

Is it manageable? Usually, for larger trades. For smaller trades, losing a few NCO's in random places can be a burden. A burden that could be reduced by moving the boards up a couple of months.

 

[MeanJean]

Being a UTP, I have had to play the waiting game.  When I was accepted three years ago, the message did not come in the routine traffic.  I was able to check the other message feed.  I am not sure what message feed it was but I did have a link to it.  Being off base for basically three years has lead me to forget what it was called.  Anyways, my DivO was pissed when I found out before he did. 

I know that the board sits late and that it can seem like an inconvenience to everyone but when I applied for the program, there were roughly 24 officer training positions available.  I can only assume that with spending cuts there may be less than that.  If you consider how many people and trades there are in the CAF, the loss of personnel to UTPNCM is negligible.  Each trade would lose more soldiers and sailors to VR's and retirements in the course of a year.  So the next guy on the merit list gets an unexpected promotion.  Sounds like win/win to me.  If trades are hurting for warm bodies, I can guarantee you that it's not due to UTP.  You being accepted to the UTP program should not come to a surprise to your Career Manager.

The norm for the UTP program, unless it has changed this year, would be to send you to a local university.  That way the CAF will save money by not providing a cost move for you and your family and I believe that they would probably send someone to a local university for the same position before they would pay to move someone else.  If you are part of the rare case and you will have to move and sell your house, I would think that your house would be ready to list tomorrow.  The UTP looks for people who take the initiative and can take care of them selves.  There is not going to be someone giving you orders to do your homework, term papers and required readings. 

The biggest concern that you should have now is registering for September courses.  You should already be accepted to your university of choice.  I got my message at the beginning of May and I did not realize that registration had already started.  Being in the engineering program, some of the courses were already filled.  If you are getting an arts degree, this should not be that big of an issue.  Actually the next four years for you will be pretty jammy.  As for the rest of us in a competitive program with limited seating, this is something to consider.  Remember, if you do not get selected you can unregister your course load and without incurring any costs.  You will also have to defer your application for another year.

Best of luck!

 

[sidemount]

Well still no news on the acceptance front, but here is a interesting CANFORGEN. If I am reading it right, after this years selection, the next crew will not be promoted to Lt upon completion.

CANFORGEN 077/15 CMP 038/15 151759Z APR 15
RANK AND PROMOTION UPON COMMISSIONING FOR IN-SERVICE COMMISSIONING PLANS, REGULAR FORCE
UNCLASSIFIED


REF: A. CFAO 9-13, UNIVERSITY TRAINING PLAN NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS (UTPNCM)
B. CFAO 9-70, SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN (SCP)
C. CBI 204.211(10), OFFICER CADET, FORMER NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER
D. CANFORGEN 051/15 TIME IN RANK REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION UNDER THE SPECIAL COMMISSIONING PLAN
E. CFAO 11-6, COMMISSIONING AND PROMOTION POLICY - OFFICERS - REGULAR FORCE



THE PURPOSE OF THIS CANFORGEN IS TO ANNOUNCE A POLICY CHANGE REGARDING THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR NCMS COMMISSIONED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B RESPECTIVELY


AS A RESULT OF CLARIFICATION FROM THE DIRECTORATE OF PAY POLICY DEVELOPMENT, IT IS NOW APPARENT THAT CHANGES MADE TO CBI 204 IN PREVIOUS YEARS HAVE PROVIDED THE NECESSARY VESTED RIGHTS TO PAY FOR NCMS WHO COMMISSION UNDER REFS A AND B. PREVIOUSLY THESE PLANS ACHIEVED PAY PROTECTION THROUGH GRANTING SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT FOR AN NCM WHO HELD THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS OR ABOVE. CHANGES TO THE PAY STRUCTURE FOR AN OFFICER WITH FORMER SERVICE AS AN NCM (REF C) HAVE RENDERED THESE PROMOTION PATTERNS UNNECESSARY. THEREFORE, THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR THE PLANS IDENTIFIED AT REFS A AND B WILL BE AS FOLLOWS:


NCMS HOLDING THE RANK OR APPOINTMENT OF MCPL/MS AND BELOW WILL BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT AND REQUIRE ONE YEAR IN THAT RANK IN ORDER TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. FOLLOWING PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT, THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM OF TWO ADDITIONAL YEARS TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N), AND


NCMS HOLDING THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK OF SGT/PO2 AND ABOVE WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT WITH SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B. THIS SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION IS INTENDED TO RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WHICH A SENIOR NCO BRINGS WITH THEM ON COMMISSIONING. THOSE OFFICERS PROMOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT ON COMMISSIONING WILL CONTINUE TO BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM THREE YEARS IN THAT RANK TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N)


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A BETTER REFLECTS THE UNTRAINED STATUS OF MEMBERS IN THE NEW OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION AND HARMONIZES THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR UTPNCM AND SCP WITH THE COMMISSIONING FROM THE RANKS PLAN. PAY PROTECTION FOR FORMER NCMS ON COMMISSIONING CONTINUES TO EXIST UNDER REF C AND IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS POLICY CHANGE


THE CHANGE DESCRIBED AT PARA 2.A DOES NOT PRECLUDE THE SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT OF A UTPNCM OR SCP OFFICER COMMISSIONED IN AN OFFICER MILITARY OCCUPATION FOR WHICH COMPLETION OF A BACCALAUREATE DEGREE FULFILS THE OCCUPATIONAL REQUIREMENTS FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT. IN SUCH CASES, THE MEMBER IS REQUIRED TO SERVE THREE YEARS IN THE RANK OF LT/SLT TO BECOME ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N)


THIS CHANGE TO THE RANK ON COMMISSIONING FOR MCPL/MS APPLIES TO NEW APPLICANTS ACCEPTED UNDER THE UTPNCM AND SCP BEGINNING WITH THE 2016 COMPETITIONS. IT DOES NOT APPLY TO THOSE MEMBERS PREVIOUSLY ACCEPTED AND SERVING UNDER REFS A AND B, WHO WILL CONTINUE TO BE PROMOTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE TERMS STATED IN REFS A, B AND D


THE ABOVE POLICY DIRECTION IS TO BE INSERTED INTO THE APPROPRIATE POLICY INSTRUMENTS AND REFERRED TO IN DMCPG COMPETITION CANFORGENS. IT WILL BE CAPTURED IN FORTHCOMING NEW DAODS FOR THE UTPNCM AND SCP


ENQUIRIES REGARDING THE APPLICATION OF THIS POLICY SHOULD BE DIRECTED THROUGH THE CHAIN OF COMMAND TO DPGR 4-5

 

[Eye In The Sky]

NCMS HOLDING THE SUBSTANTIVE RANK OF SGT/PO2 AND ABOVE WILL CONTINUE TO BE COMMISSIONED IN THE RANK OF 2LT/A/SLT WITH SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION AS SPECIFIED IN REFS A AND B. THIS SIMULTANEOUS PROMOTION IS INTENDED TO RECOGNIZE THE LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE WHICH A SENIOR NCO BRINGS WITH THEM ON COMMISSIONING. THOSE OFFICERS PROMOTED SIMULTANEOUSLY TO THE RANK OF LT/SLT ON COMMISSIONING WILL CONTINUE TO BE REQUIRED TO SERVE A MINIMUM THREE YEARS IN THAT RANK TO BE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION TO THE RANK OF CAPT/LT(N) 

It depends on rank, right?  Not all UTPs are Jacks and Cpls.

 

[sidemount]

Yes, sorry, you are correct, I should have said MCpls are no longer going to be promoted to Lt. Cpls previously went to 2Lt anyway, and Sgts are still going to Lt.

 

[rocksteady]

Is it possible to get a CFAT score waiver to do UTPNCM?

Situation is NCM with a bachelor's degree that isn't the desired degree wants to do UTPNCM into an officer trade that is currently Red.  Scored high enough to do any NCM trade but not high enough for the officer cut off.

Thanks.

 

[MJP]

Is it possible to get a CFAT score waiver to do UTPNCM?

Situation is NCM with a bachelor's degree that isn't the desired degree wants to do UTPNCM into an officer trade that is currently Red.  Scored high enough to do any NCM trade but not high enough for the officer cut off.

Thanks.

An NCM with a Bachelor's degree usually goes the route of Special Commissioning Plan (SCP) not UTPNCM.  There are exceptions when degree does not match desire trade needs however generally one still has to meet all other requirements including CFAT.  I am sure a persuasive argument can be made to rewrite the CFAT if one wanted to go that route.  I might even suggest that if one wanted to be an officer they would do their due diligence and present a coherent case for rewriting or waiving CFAT needs.

 

[ballz]

They have royally f**ked up the way they recognize people as Capts through different entry programs.

Someone who was a MCpl or Sgt and takes a commission in their own trade shouldn't need 3 years as an Lt to get their Capt promotion, if they do they never should have been accepted for UTPNCM in the first place. My colleague won the Vance Award (top Sgt in The RCR) before going UTP. We both started as Pl Comds at basically the same time (May for me, September for him)... I was just promoted to Capt and he needs to wait another year. It's RTFO 'er. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.