Universities, the military, and political beliefs.

[3rd Horseman]

I found it a valuable lesson to be at a liberal school in the PolSci program and I think it is vital that all properly educated officers get the following lesson......I now know who the enemy is ....leftists.

  Now with that said, you have a point about the left leaning of the schools but as some have said those that take up the way of the sword are a different breed and the left schools only enhance our capabilities to understand who we will one day meet on the field of battle.

  With all this conservative talk I guess we are all voting in the right this Jan06.

 

[rw4th]

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus Christ, what is it with people and knocking the Arts/Social Sciences?

Friends don't let friends take arts  ;D

 

[hooch]

I'm in Political Science and I'm slated for Infantry Officer.

You're not the only one... I'm studying History and Philosophy, and most of my friends in the same career track are studying any number of the social sciences or humanities at every university across the country.  Being exposed to a variety of different ways of thinking, whether you agree with them or not, is in my opinion one of the most important things about a university education and I cetainly don't see how it may be a detriment to my future duties as an infantry officer.  I cetainly don't feel like a bleeding heart, and the Philosophy department is arguably the most socialist, leftist department at my school.

 

[johnny_boy]

Everyone tosses around those terms now, liberal, left, conservative, right, centre, up, down. The US election only made it worse and anyone who is not a Republican is left and liberal and everyone who is not a Democrat and right and evil. I for one think it's the dumbest thing ever.

I'm sorry but who says if you're in the military you have to have "conservative" thoughts? I support gay marraige, but I support Canada in Afghanistan, Haiti, etc which is what all the people you would call "liberal" do not support.

I go to university, I am in the CF, and I don't think you can blanket somone simply with a label that says conservative, liberal, etc.

Meh

 

[Infanteer]

I think the discussion is centered on the "liberal" and "realist" approaches to Canada's role in the world and international relations in general.  Canadian society as a whole tends to be quite liberal, and CF members will tend to reflect this.  However, there are aspects of the profession which will, in general, affect a members structural approach to the way to the world works (this was what Huntington was getting at with his analysis of the professionalism).

You are correct though, pigeonholing political views into boxes doesn't really do the concepts justice.

 

[ZxExN]

Your education or lack there of does not make you a conservative or liberal. Both sides have thjeir merits and I just hope you're not implying that the educated one are naturally liberals and the stupid highschool drop outs are conservatives.
Your character and who you are affected more so by your life experience than anything else. Also just because someone has been educated in the liberal arts, it does not mean that they do not make excellent infantry soldiers.

 

[boots]

Your education or lack there of does not make you a conservative or liberal. Both sides have thjeir merits and I just hope you're not implying that the educated one are naturally liberals and the stupid highschool drop outs are conservatives.
Your character and who you are affected more so by your life experience than anything else. Also just because someone has been educated in the liberal arts, it does not mean that they do not make excellent infantry soldiers.

I think the reason why universities tend to be more liberal than the rest of society may just be because they are mostly populated with young people, who tend to be liberal because they are young. I've noticed that I have been gradually becoming more conservative over the years, and I might even consider voting for them except that I don't like a lot of the social policies. I haven't been following politics for a while, so it may well have all changed by now. I'm going to have to look into it again with this new election that seems to be about to hit us... either way I am going to vote for either the liberals or the conservatives, if only because I doubt any other party really stands a chance (and that would be a wasted vote) so I will just have to figure out which party I dislike less.

Infanteer: Personally, I don't see 'realist' as the opposite of 'liberal'. I consider myself very much a realist. I tend to have beliefs along the lines of 'prostitution should be legalised whether or not you/I personally agree with it, simply because it will always exist whether it's legal or not, and legalising makes it safer' or 'we need to have a better alternative to welfare that isn't so prone to abuse, or wasteful, but we need to have something'.

 

[3rd Horseman]

Cuteboots, you said..

"I think the reason why universities tend to be more liberal than the rest of society may just be because they are mostly populated with young people, who tend to be liberal because they are young."

I think the reason is that the young are impresionable and they are the main population at university which is influenced by the teachers that are left wing socialists. They are the reason and as you age you see the error of these peoples teachings. If we had universities full of right wing teachers we would create the same group as conservatives. Uhhhhm I like the sound of that...! Could be dangerous though.

Remember those that cant, teach! Why are the universities full of left leaning teachers ...because they could not survive spouting there left socialists crap in a board room.

 

[KevinB]

Boots -- how who you then legalise prostitution?  How would you guarantee that the pimps and thugs would not continue to control these women?  How could we guarantee that organised crime does not control it?

  I consider myself a realist because I know people are dirty, nasty, and mean at heart.

 

[Infanteer]

Infanteer: Personally, I don't see 'realist' as the opposite of 'liberal'. I consider myself very much a realist. I tend to have beliefs along the lines of 'prostitution should be legalised whether or not you/I personally agree with it, simply because it will always exist whether it's legal or not, and legalising makes it safer' or 'we need to have a better alternative to welfare that isn't so prone to abuse, or wasteful, but we need to have something'.

Again, you're talking about domestic social issues - I'm referring to a soldier's outlook on the international order, which tends to be shaped by his profession, his preperation, and his experience in the world's shitholes.  This is why I believe Huntington was correct when he stated that militaries as institutions tend to gravitate towards a more conservative, realist outlook.

Boots -- how who you then legalise prostitution?   How would you guarantee that the pimps and thugs would not continue to control these women?   How could we guarantee that organised crime does not control it?

Same way you would do things with pot (or we do things with alcohol).  Require licenses and mandatory audits.  Showing positive for hard drugs means you license gets pulled.  Designate specific businesses and locations where it can be practiced - they have to be licenced as well.  Jack the punishment up for streetwalking and pimping big time.

There are places which do this - Vegas being one of them.  Of course, you're never going to get rid of abused women, but this is a start.  Helping a good percentage of these women make their living in the world's oldest trade in a safer manner is better then saying "don't do it".

 

[KevinB]

  Helping a good percentage of these women make their living in the world's oldest trade in a safer manner is better then saying "don't do it".

Its true, you are a closet Libertarian

 

[rw4th]

There are places which do this - Vegas being one of them.

Actually, as far as I know Nevada does it, but it's still illegal in Vegas (the Bunny Ranch is right outside city limits )

Just "right" and "left" is not usually enough to describe a person's political beliefs. You have to use those to characterize specific areas, such as: foreign policy, economics, and social issues.

For example:

I lean towards the right on foreign policy and economic issues (lower taxes, military spending, etc..), but towards the left on many social issues (drug legalization, abortion, legalized prostitution, etc ...).

 

[Infanteer]

Its true, you are a closet Libertarian

Got me.

Actually, as far as I know Nevada does it, but it's still illegal in Vegas (the Bunny Ranch is right outside city limits )

Damn, you're right - thanks for the correction.

 

[Aislinn]

This is always a fun topic for me. I'm still in university and still dealing with anti-military issues on campus. Currently our student union is "deciding for once and all [our] view on the CF". They still want to ban CF recruitment advertising. It's a continuous and frustrating battle for me. And let's not knock arts degrees: I'm a political science major. I'm also a rep on the student union. I like to think I bring a different and perhaps opposing view to school politics.

Cheers.

 

[UberCree]

Don't confuse the term 'liberalism' in refence to international politics with the newfound media term 'liberalism' in reference to domestic politics.  One of you poly sci students could probably explain this better, but Liberalism is the belief that international trade and interaction furthers our interests... hence world peace.  The more we intereact the greater the opportunity for peace.  Domestically we use the term pejoritively and synonomously with 'left'.  However, most 'conservatives' are liberal in regards to international trade.

 

[boots]

This is always a fun topic for me. I'm still in university and still dealing with anti-military issues on campus. Currently our student union is "deciding for once and all [our] view on the CF". They still want to ban CF recruitment advertising. It's a continuous and frustrating battle for me. And let's not knock arts degrees: I'm a political science major. I'm also a rep on the student union. I like to think I bring a different and perhaps opposing view to school politics.

Cheers.

Keep up the good fight.
When I was in university, and the Iraq war thing was going on, some students decided to do some peace protest thing which meant that they camped out on the campus lawn for a while... I'm really not sure what they expected to get out of that, but they are free to their opinion, as many of you and eventually I work on ensuring that.
Personally for me the war on Iraq was really only ever one question: Will the life of the average Iraqi become better as a result? The answer to that was going to be in line with my support. As for Canada joining in... if we don't, we don't, and if we did and I was told to go, I go. That's pretty simple.

Don't confuse the term 'liberalism' in refence to international politics with the newfound media term 'liberalism' in reference to domestic politics.   One of you poly sci students could probably explain this better, but Liberalism is the belief that international trade and interaction furthers our interests... hence world peace.   The more we intereact the greater the opportunity for peace.   Domestically we use the term pejoritively and synonomously with 'left'.   However, most 'conservatives' are liberal in regards to international trade.

I bet that some of them would have a fit if you told them that.

 

[KevinB]

I bet that some of them would have a fit if you told them that.

Some of us just dont do back flips at that revalation...  A lot of US Conservatives are also isolationist.  I have been become more isolationist recently - my anti globalization issues are entirely 180 for the typical though.

Its hard to pigeonhole anyone into a specific trait

 

[a_majoor]

The use of language has been corrupted, what we think of as "Conservative" today is actually classical "Liberalism" What passes for "Liberalism" today is a variation on socialism, and to be correctly political it is very close to National Socialism or Fascism in nature.

See the test in :http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32697.0.html, and the discussion in "Politics with more Dimensions" http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23744.0.html

 

[KevinB]

  Not very PC of you

 

[UberCree]

Some of us just dont do back flips at that revalation...   A lot of US Conservatives are also isolationist.   I have been become more isolationist recently - my anti globalization issues are entirely 180 for the typical though.

Its hard to pigeonhole anyone into a specific trait

I will look forward to seeing you at all the anti globalization rallies ??? 
I will bet that my pro-globalization is not typical either.  I believe globalization necessitiates global human rights standards, governance and economic freedoms... emphasis on rights.