U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[OldSolduer]

I will tell you why they didn't ask for conscientious objector status: That requires commitment. These people have no idea what that means.

 

[old medic]

Associated Press Wire (numerous links)
Aug 22, 6:42 PM EDT

Soldier gets 15 months in prison for desertion

FORT CARSON, Colo. (AP) -- A soldier who fled to Canada rather than fight in Iraq has been sentenced to 15 months in prison after pleading guilty in Fort Carson, Colo., to a reduced charge of desertion.

Pvt. Robin Long told a military judge at his sentencing Friday that he left the country over moral objections to what he called an illegal war.

Prosecutors say the 25-year-old from Boise, Idaho, abandoned his duty and his country.

Long was stationed at Fort Carson when he fled to Canada in 2005. Canadian authorities denied his request for refuge and deported him last month.

Long reached a plea agreement with prosecutors. He pleaded guilty to desertion with intent to remain away permanently, a lesser charge than desertion with intent to shirk hazardous duty.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Associated Press Wire (numerous links)
Aug 22, 6:42 PM EDT

Soldier gets 15 months in prison for desertion

What a weasel, but I'm glad he's finally getting whats coming to him.... don't drop the soap !

 

[gun runner]

"What a weasel" , what a comment to make.. if the shoe was on the other foot,would you still make that same comment? I am sure that Private Long will no doubt be slapped with the same comments during his incarceration,but that country has a long history of fighting unpopular wars. The country was against the Second World War until Japan attacked. And how about Korea? Vietnam, now that was the one conflict where escaping to Canada was worth the trip. But now we are both countries at war..albeit for different reasons. Iraq has proven to be another unpopular war, and Americans are getting tired of seeing the caskets of their dead sons and daughters day after day. 3000+ dead in 7 years.. sad.  It makes sense to me that this member of the U.S. armed forces would make this choice.. and his reasons are probably justifiable as well. As Canadians we have the luxury of criticism, and yes we are losing our sons and daughters as well, but not to the degree that our neighbours to the south are seeing. We have reason to be concerned for our loved ones.. I know, I have a brother in Afghanistan right now..but the U.S. has 1000 times the uniforms in afghanistan, and 6 times that number again in Iraq (150000).Not to mention that a 6 month rotation would be a total wet dream for those in uniform in Iraq. These soldiers are there for the long haul..15-18 months. How about those apples? So, how do you call a man with a conscience, and a concern for his well being a weasel. If I was in the same position(being sent to a conflict with a high mortality rate, and low morale.) I would probably want to review my options as well. But I am not an American.. and I am not in harms way. I am sure if you had seen the wholesale carnage that these soldiers have seen(yes we have too as well) then you could understand what he is trying to avoid. Just my thoughts. Ubique

 

[brihard]

"What a weasel" , what a comment to make.. if the shoe was on the other foot,would you still make that same comment? I am sure that Private Long will no doubt be slapped with the same comments during his incarceration,but that country has a long history of fighting unpopular wars. The country was against the Second World War until Japan attacked. And how about Korea? Vietnam, now that was the one conflict where escaping to Canada was worth the trip. But now we are both countries at war..albeit for different reasons. Iraq has proven to be another unpopular war, and Americans are getting tired of seeing the caskets of their dead sons and daughters day after day. 3000+ dead in 7 years.. sad.  It makes sense to me that this member of the U.S. armed forces would make this choice.. and his reasons are probably justifiable as well. As Canadians we have the luxury of criticism, and yes we are losing our sons and daughters as well, but not to the degree that our neighbours to the south are seeing. We have reason to be concerned for our loved ones.. I know, I have a brother in Afghanistan right now..but the U.S. has 1000 times the uniforms in afghanistan, and 6 times that number again in Iraq (150000).Not to mention that a 6 month rotation would be a total wet dream for those in uniform in Iraq. These soldiers are there for the long haul..15-18 months. How about those apples? So, how do you call a man with a conscience, and a concern for his well being a weasel. If I was in the same position(being sent to a conflict with a high mortality rate, and low morale.) I would probably want to review my options as well. But I am not an American.. and I am not in harms way. I am sure if you had seen the wholesale carnage that these soldiers have seen(yes we have too as well) then you could understand what he is trying to avoid. Just my thoughts. Ubique

Private Long joined the U.S Army the same time the invasion was beginning. He should have known better than to join an army that was fighting a war he did not believe in.

I'm no fan of the Iraq war, but you don't voluntarily join an army and then back out when the time comes to step up.

 

[Strike]

gun runner, if you were to take the time and read the comments found in this thread, all your comments and views have already been addressed.  But because you prefer to rant rather than take a breath before posting (that's okay, we've all done it) I'll throw in the general rebuttals that can be found in here...

...that country has a long history of fighting unpopular wars. The country was against the Second World War until Japan attacked. And how about Korea?

Uh, Canada was also in Korea.

Vietnam, now that was the one conflict where escaping to Canada was worth the trip.  

You can't really compare Vietnam's deserters to today.  Today's deserters are all volunteers whereas back then they were draft-dodgers.

It makes sense to me that this member of the U.S. armed forces would make this choice.. and his reasons are probably justifiable as well.

And how about those who joined after 9/11 and then deserted?  Sure, the US didn't start out in Iraq, but the country was still at war.  Once again, he still volunteered for the military and wasn't drafted.

As Canadians we have the luxury of criticism, and yes we are losing our sons and daughters as well, but not to the degree that our neighbours to the south are seeing.

Really?  The day we lost 10 Canadians an American friend of mine decided to do a bit of math and equated that loss (based on the populations of both countries and their commitment to Afghanistan) to something like 150 of their troops.  You can't just throw a number out there with out looking at ALL the numbers involved.

Take the time and read the whole thread.  I'm just repeating what has already been brought up numerous times.

 

[aesop081]

If I was in the same position(being sent to a conflict with a high mortality rate, and low morale.) I would probably want to review my options as well.

Well, thanks for the advance warning that i can count on you to run to Mexico when things heat up.


Ubique this........ :

 

[Loachman]

It makes sense to me that this member of the U.S. armed forces would make this choice.. and his reasons are probably justifiable as well.

Fear, most likely.

So, how do you call a man with a conscience, and a concern for his well being a weasel.

Conscience? On what do you base this claim of "conscience"? Just because these deserters made certain allegations?

While every one of these people has claimed to want out as the Iraq conflict is an "illegal" war, or they were being forced to commit or witness war crimes, I have a really, really hard time accepting their word on that. Of course, their claims are entirely believable to the anti-war crowd as they fit their belief patterns, and these claims thus gain the deserters a sympathetic following. Their claims also imply that every other professional member of the US Armed Forces is a willing participant in illegal and immoral activities. I have not worked with any US military people over several decades whom I would have any reason to believe were/are not professional, ethical, and moral and therefore I have no difficulty in rejecting those claims.

I can understand fear, and I can even sympathize.

For anyone that would stand up and say "I am afraid and do not want to serve any more", I can even feel a degree of respect.

These people have not made that admission.

Instead, in all likelihood, they have misrepresented the reasons for their actions in order to garner sympathy - or, to be less kind, lied.

What also bothers me is that others have had to take on additional risk, and some may even have died, in their place, and the honour of those men and women, and the honour of the US Armed Forces in general, has been smeared by their allegations.

Cassius Clay, later known as Mohammed Ali, chose not to submit to conscription yet he went to court over the matter rather than running and accepted the penalty given to him. That I can respect. Whatever his true motivation was, he manned up.

The deserters could also have resorted to the courts in the US and made their arguments there. Had their cases had merit, ie had they been able to prove that the conflict was illegal as alleged and that war crimes were actually taking place as they claim, they should have had nothing to fear. Instead of standing and fighting their cases - and proving their statements - they chose to run. That would indicate that they have no case, that their allegations of illegality, criminality, and immorality have no basis - and they knew it - and that they have no conscience.

If it walks like a weasel and quacks like a weasel...

 

[armyvern]

Gun runner,

I have only a couple of things to say to you:

The last person on earth who wants to see war --- is the soldier who will be fighting, and possibly dieing in it.

But, an "unpopular war" DOES NOT EQUAL an "unjust war" or an "illegal war".

They are entirely different matters. Most soldiers grasp that concept.

 

[geo]

Gunrunner....

Read lots, post seldom.... it'll work out better for you in the long run

 

[gun runner]

Thank-you to all who have replied to my post..all of it is good advice and a good wake up call to myself. Let me start off with this..I am no fan of deserters,it is a cowardly act for sure,but in the individuals mind it must have been an only option.To CDN AVIATOR, I would have your back in any war this country chooses to send an ex-soldier as myself to..dont worry about that. And yes Canada was in Korea..I know my history, thanks. The current war in Iraq CAN be compared to the U.S. action in Vietnam, both (are)were immensly unpopular with the citizens of the U.S, and if you all will understand my point of view, if you dont have the support at home, the morale is going to fall like a stone. And that leads to desertion. ARMY VERN, you are correct in stating that the last person on earth who wants war is the soldier, that is the best way I have heard it yet.Listen people... Private Long was a soldier,weak as he may have been,but still a soldier. Who knows, maybe he had seen enough of his buddies getting blown up by zealots using all manners of traps to kill Americans.I cant say what went through his mind at the time,but he must have had a good enough reason to desert. You are right in the statement that there were channels to go through for a proper dismissal on consciencious objector grounds,and yes the military courts would have seen to it that he spent not one more day in the forces if that was how he felt about it. But he didnt and that is that. So..that is where it stands, Pte. Long will get his day in court, and his dis-honourable discharge, and life will return to normal.. until the next deserter is deported back and this debate will go on again.  So I will leave it at that, and CDN AVIATOR, I dont shit on the Airforce, leave the Regiment out of your comments. Ubique

 

[aesop081]

leave the Regiment out of your comments. Ubique

I earned the right to use "Ubique" any way i want........

Of course for me it meant " Everywhere" not "all over the place"  ;D

(a reference i'm sure you will get a chuckle out of and know what i mean)

 

[geo]

Sappers
1st in, last out

CHIMO!

 

[gun runner]

Yes I get the joke. Thanks for setting it straight. A gunner for life. Ubique

 

[OldSolduer]

Hostie Acie Nominatae

 

[geo]

Umm... Who was telling a joke ??? 

 

[gun runner]

Ambedo stercoro. Ubique

 

[Blindspot]

Haven't seen a good latin duel since Tombstone.

 

[geo]

any you probably won,t see one here either....

 

[kratz]

Now US deserters  want Canadian voters to use ther votes to help protect them from being deported back to the US.

Shared from  the Calgary Sun

U.S. deserter slams Harper

By BILL KAUFMANN, SUN MEDIA

Voters should insist their leaders grant U.S. military deserters asylum for the sake of Canada's own troops, an American deserter said in Calgary yesterday.

Chuck Wiley, a 17-year U.S. naval veteran who fled to Canada in 2007, said he fears what he calls the Bush administration's abuse of its soldiers will be repeated in Canada if voters allow Ottawa to deport U.S. deserters.

"They've made it clear in the U.S. the rights of soldiers will be ignored and if they're successful in doing it to us, Stephen Harper will try to enforce the same attitude," said Wiley, 36, who last served aboard the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise.

"Harper's always been supportive of everything George W. Bush stands for ... it's not just about us."

Wiley said unless Canadians elect a more sympathetic government he'll likely be deported to the U.S. within five months and possibly face prison time.

"I'd love it to be an election issue," he said before speaking to about 50 people at a northwest church.

Last June, Parliament passed a motion calling for a halt to the deportation of war resisters, noted Calgary Centre NDP candidate Tyler Kinch. "The prime minister should honour the will of Parliament," said Kinch.

A series of cross-country protests staged in support of American deserters yesterday turned highly partisan, hundreds called for a change in government -- including a Toronto demonstration flush with placards reading "Stop Harper."

About 20 rallies from coast to coast -- initially scheduled to coincide with the 10-day countdown to deserter Jeremy Hinzman's deportation -- rounded out a day of action to support American soldiers seeking refugee status.