U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[K. Ash]

Not too sure but I thought the only way a person could claim refugee status was if he was coming from a place where he was being persecuted.
I wouldn‘t of thought that having to do one‘s duty in a volunteered army would count as persecution.

Throw the ****** back.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Infanteer:
[qb]

Yeah, we all know how useless the reserves were in WW II.

I‘m talking about now, Michael. My comment was directed towards the fact that it‘s amazing how many reservists can‘t be called to take 3 hours out of their "hectic" lives as a student to show up. [/qb]

My apologies, and you‘re right. NES rates are always a concern, and some of the excuses one hears are a little embarrassing. I‘m not so sure that would apply if we mobilized for war, though.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by Kirkpatrick:
[qb] I went to work Tuesday night, with an exam the next day at 9:00, and 2 more the day after.

However, our first ex in april had to be basically cancelled, because of so few of us showing up [/qb]

They don‘t put marks on the diploma. My studying for finals usually began on the train on the way to school on the day of the exam.

It brings up a good point though, and Infanteer may agree with this - but if you give people the ability to slack off, there will always be people who will take advantage of it.

Where I work in civvie life, there are many opportunities, thanks to the union, for taking days off without even giving an explanation. Sick time is also generous. Most people work well, the odd standout will come in even when sick, not wanting to take time off at all, and then there is also a small percentage who make sure every hour of sick time and possible paid time off is used up to the last second each year, thinking they are "entitled" to it. Disappointing, but eyeopening.

In all honesty, I probably used the "got exams" excuse myself when I was much younger, even when it wasn‘t true.

Not sure that really compares to a guy joining the Army and then claming refugee status to avoid his service!

 

[Bill Smy]

Originally posted by Infanteer:
[qb]

Yeah, we all know how useless the reserves were in WW II.

I‘m talking about now, Michael. My comment was directed towards the fact that it‘s amazing how many reservists can‘t be called to take 3 hours out of their "hectic" lives as a student to show up. [/qb]

After serving in the Reserves for over 32 years, I don‘t know whether it‘s fair to completely blame the individual for not parading regularly.

All too often I noticed men standing around with nothing to do because the leaders were not organized. The solution to many of these leaders was to have the men do a "little drill."

All too often I noted lectures being given in the classroom instead of the field

When the training is interesting and the leadership dynamic, the parade square will fill up quickly for roll call.

As far as taking time out of their hectic lives,I wonder how that would apply to Reservists on deployment overseas?

 

[Marauder]

Sorry Inf, but gotta side with the good officer here. A month of Tuesday nights of cleaning the same (already spotless) weapons and then standing around with the thumb firmly implanted in the cinammon ring tends to erode the wish to put out the time to come in, when there is clearly little time being put into implementing good training.
Although I never miss it because it‘s an easy $50, and sometimes they suprise me.
We still homies?

 

[kurokaze]

I agree, I have a very difficult time getting my entire battery to show on parade nights. And due to their level of training (most of them are still on BMQ), there‘s not a heck of a lot I‘m allowed to let them do.

But if the reserves were mobilized for war, exam or not, you would have no choice but to show up correct?

 

[Infanteer]

Ok, my little attempt at humor backfired.

As a reservist who never missed a training day, despite many lame parade nights, I apologize.

Marauder, I still love you.

 

[Infanteer]

PS,

I got that from this humourous post from another board, read to your hearts content and tell me how far off the mark you think it is

---

What would happen if Canada was threatened militarily - My version.

Ottawa would hold an emergency session in Parliment, the Liberals would denouce the threat and ask all the other parties to offer their support in a show of soldiarity while trying to implement a temporary increase of the GST. The Reform would use this to try to get more aid to the farmers and the Bloc would stage a boycott of
Parliment until they get total control of the St Lawrence. After 6 months of heated debate, name calling and desk slapping, they agree they must actually DO something.

The call would go out to the CF to deploy the regs and mobilize the reserves. OH NO! All the regs are understrength and scattered all over the world on UN, NATO, or more likely some Starving Nation, Greenpeace or other Save-the-whale / Rainforest / Ozone causes that don‘t let them even have their bolts in. OH NO! Suddenly most of
the all-volunteer reserve dosen‘t show up because

1) it would interfere with my upcoming term papr/exam/school choir practice

2) can‘t find any of my kit or

3) nobody said anything about really having to do some killing.

The remainder kit up, bomb up, cam up, get ready to kill because even though the rest of the country forgot- they always sucked it up and remembered that‘s what we‘re here for, but
have to wait until Ottawa can arrange suitable airlift. This cannot be accomplished within 2 months because Air Canada is still pissed about their the CAI merger limitations. The troops are told they will have to use ground transport as
the Chinooks weren‘t replaced and the Hercs are in the hangar because the pilots are told they must have 8hrs min rest before flying. Now they are forced to use their own vehicles (no mileage allowed either), because half the ML‘s are broke due to lack of parts, and the few drivers left in garrison don‘t have troop lift due to training course cutbacks. With the Trans-Canada looking like the Basra-Baghdad "highway of death", we head merrily off to confront the enemy. Of course by this time, the enemy is already well entrenched in the community and are now contributing to the local tax base and running for public office. They succesfully lobby the RCMP to arrest all the CF personnel with no FAC transporting unregistered restricted weapons. Now all the soldiers are left on their own like a gut-shot nun in a snow bank, and head back to their super-bases but most die in horrible traffic
accidents after being cut-off by diet-pill crazed soccer moms in large SUV‘s.

Ottawa appoints a Royal Commision to find out if there is any way of not paying out death and survivors benifits. The CF asks for more funding for recruiting, but all units execpt NDHQ are disbanded due to embarrasing media coverage.

TM
Down in "Shut-up-and-die" ranks

 

[kruger]

Hehe, oh thats good:

"It would interfere with choir practice".

 

[stukirkpatrick]

I got that from this humourous post from another board, read to your hearts content and tell me how far off the mark you think it is

Isn‘t that a security risk to post the government plans outlining our country‘s defensive strategy?

 

[Bill Smy]

From the St Catharines Standard:-

ODDS AGAINST DESERTER‘S BID FOR ASYLUM

Only one American has been granted refugee status in eight years

By Kalvin Reid, Standard Staff

Friday, April 16, 2004 - 01:00

The number of United States citizens crossing into Canada seeking asylum is rapidly increasing, but that hasn't improved the chances of an American successfully becoming a refugee in Canada.

â Å“People from any country can make a refugee claim,â ? said board spokesman Charles Hawkins. â Å“But they do have to show they have a well-founded fear of persecution in their home country.â ?

U.S. Army private Brandon Hughey deserted his unit March 2, leaving Fort Hood, Texas, the same day his unit was shipping out to the Middle East.

Three days later, he crossed the border into Canada and is now residing with a St. Catharines family.

He is awaiting a hearing to determine if he will be granted refugee status.

The lone American was granted refugee status in Canada in 1997, out of 71 U.S. refugee cases referred.

Hawkins wouldn't disclose the factors surrounding the only successful case.

â Å“We don't discuss the reasons why people are granted refugee status,â ? he said. â Å“We don't discuss the nature of the claims.â ?

But the number of Americans seeking asylum is on the rise. Between January and September last year, there were 268 refugee claims compared to 203 for all of 2002.

In making their case, refugees are expected to show how they were being persecuted in their homeland, preferably with documentation, and they are also expected to show that their government didn't do enough to protect them from harm.

Hughey, who says he came to oppose the war in Iraq, would face arrest and court martial for desertion if he were returned home.

But there is a sharp line between persecution and prosecution.

â Å“That is an issue in many, many claims,â ? Hawkins said.

Hawkins wouldn't discuss the specifics of the Hughey case, but said the board hears claims of conscientious objection to military service, and they are dealt with on a country-by-country basis.

â Å“A court martial itself could not be said to be persecution,â ? Hawkins said. â Å“But the cases are dealt with on a case- by-case basis.â ?

Hughey is one of two American army deserters seeking asylum in Canada.

St. Catharines MP Walt Lastewka said earlier this week that whether or not Canada will become a haven for U.S. soldiers seeking asylum is a matter for the refugee board to decide.

It is also a tough issue for his opponents in the upcoming federal election.

St. Catharines Conservative candidate Leo Bonomi said considering the claim of a deserter from the army of a war-torn nation is different than one coming from the U.S. Army.

â Å“It could become a thorn in the relations between Canada and the U.S.,â ? he said Thursday morning on a local radio show.

â Å“I don't think this is a great case. I don't know if this person falls within the definition of a refugee.â ?

It is an issue that has torn St. Catharines NDP candidate Ted Mouradian, who feels the U.S. war in Iraq is unjust.

â Å“But this guy signed up knowing he could fight,â ? Mouradian said in an interview. â Å“If this turns into another Vietnam War, and it looks like it could, we'll see a lot more of this.â ?

Mouradian added that any punishment facing Hughey should he return to the U.S. has to be taken into consideration.

â Å“If he is facing execution, I think we should keep him,â ? he said.

 

[Freight_Train]

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/News/2004/08/04/pf-568103.html
Deserter booted

U.S. ARMY RUNAWAY TO CANADA LOSES REFUGEE CLAIM
By TOM GODFREY, TORONTO SUN

THE FIRST of three U.S. Army deserters who fled to Canada to avoid military service has lost his refugee claim and is being booted back across the border. The name of the soldier, who lives in the Toronto area, and details about his case were not released by the Immigration and Refugee Board (IRB) due to privacy concerns.

Two other U.S. Army privates -- Jeremy Hinzman, 25, and Brandon Hughey, 18 --have also filed refugee claims and appeared for hearings in Toronto last month.

The IRB, in a decision obtained yesterday, didn't believe the unidentified soldier would be tortured or killed for bolting on his platoon members, adding the soldier was not a conventional refugee or a person in need of protection.

'FEARED PENALTIES'

"He feared the penalties imposed for desertion would amount to cruel and unusual punishment," the board said in a partial decision.

IRB spokesman Serge Arsenault said the full decision wasn't available yesterday.

"The claimant feared that because of multiple charges he might face eight years in the brig," the board said, adding the man could have faced the death penalty if the U.S. was at war when he bolted.

The IRB said the soldier was not a conscientious objector and had no religious or moral reason for disobeying orders.

Meanwhile, Hinzman and Hughey had their hearings before the IRB adjourned until later this year.

Hinzman served in Afghanistan as a cook, but fled here from the 82nd Airborne Regiment in North Carolina last January when he was called for action in Iraq.

ORDERED TO IRAQ

Hughey joined the military in 2002 and was ready to take part in military operations until he was ordered to Iraq. He fled to Canada after slipping past military police in March.

;D

 

[Scott]

Hope he has to serve every single one of those eight years. Good for the IRB, I thought that this would be dragged out forever, although there is still an appeal process, no?

These guys deserve all they can be given, they volunteered for the Armed Services and are bound by the laws of such.

 

[Scott]

S_Baker, I know you were waiting for this, sir!! Happy hunting!

 

[Danjanou]

One down, two to go. Don't let the door slam your ass on the way out. 8)

 

[Pieman]

Just a thought, does anything prevent him from moving on to a different country other than the US?
Perhaps he will take a quick trip down to Mexico or some other country. He might find refuge in Spain.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

GREAT! Ive been waiting for this to happen  Good on the IRB for a speedy result.

Instead of 8 years they should give em 15 and then kick them out of the US....


strong feelings from me being a dual citizen, living since i was 8 in Canada, and serving here. I find desertion to be the most disgraceful thing that a person could do at a time like this in any branch of the service

 

[Slim]

Just a thought, does anything prevent him from moving on to a different country other than the US?
Perhaps he will take a quick trip down to Mexico or some other country. He might find refuge in Spain.

When they say he will be evicted from the country it means that he will be handed over to U.S. Customs...guess where he goes after that!

 

[Pieman]

When they say he will be evicted from the country it means that he will be handed over to U.S. Customs...guess where he goes after that!  

Does that mean he should invest in some soap on at rope?   I am glad he is getting put back as it is not like he was drafted or forced into the Army or anything. They paid for his training, so he has to work off that dept.

 

[Figure11]

Like they used to say in that famous skit from "Saturday Night Live"...................
BUB BYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!