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U.S. 2012 Election

On Nov 6 Who Will Win President Obama or Mitt Romney ?

  • President Obama

    Votes: 39 61.9%
  • Mitt Romney

    Votes: 24 38.1%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
cupper said:
I agree with you right up to the last point.

I'm not convinced that Romney's private equity market experience will translate to running the US economy. And I definitely have considerable concerns on his foreign policy ability.

Either is the flip of a coin, you can't do worse than is already happening.

Your solution is to decide the lesser of the two evils. No one candidate is going to fulfill all your wishes.

Not unless you run, and vote, yourself.

cupper said:
Again. your stereotypical view that all factory workers have UAW like contracts, or even UAW type representation show how little you understand.
Class A mechanics make between $60-$90\ hr. Whether working for themselves, or a dealership. He also said 'most'. Depends on your definition of most, I guess.

Spare me the BS example. Not sure what logic you used to make the comparison.
Guess you missed that big assed Sarcasm smilie.

The discussion was about Mitt Romney, not Barak Obama. So can the hypocritical comment, particularly when you yourself have shown tendencies to the same.
No it's not. The discussion is about the 2012 election. That includes the dissection of all candidates equally

I'm not going to waste my time with your request. I've dealt with the same from you on other threads, and when I do provide such information, it's dismissed as crap by some left wing hack conspiracy source.
I'd like to see them then.

I've been very reasonable in my comments, and I expect the same in return.
It's a matter of perspective. You say you've been reasonable, others have the right to disagree.
 
cupper said:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/105348/post-1134555.html#msg1134555

You added nothing with your list of books and authors. You made no quotes from the books that added to the discussion, nor did you use any real evidence to back yourself up. Try again, please.
 
cupper said:
We've derailed the thread enough. Move on.

Once again, that's just your opinion. This thread has been in a constant state of derail since the start. So, in effect, it's not. Just the nature of the beast

You can defend yourself, or not. It's your decision on whether you proceed, or shut down conversation when cornered by stating "We've derailed the thread enough. Move on."

Like I said, it's been there since the start, as a Mod, I've got lots of experience with derails and trainwrecks.

This ain't one. There's just so many aspects and opinions, it seems that way. Live with it.
 
Okay, everyone to their corners.  Go find a political site if you want to prattle on - you're making too much work for the staff here.
 
US GOP political insider/strategist Karl Rove has a plausible plan for a Romney win, according to this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/us-election/3-2-1-mitt-romneys-road-to-the-white-house/article2447847/
3-2-1: Mitt Romney’s road to the White House

SONIA VERMA

From Thursday's Globe and Mail
Published Wednesday, May. 30, 2012

For Mitt Romney, having clinched the Republican presidential nomination Tuesday, the road to the White House is not a riddle. Rather, it comes down to cold, hard math.

At least that’s the opinion of Karl Rove. The former senior adviser and deputy chief of staff to president George W. Bush recently crunched the numbers to show the states where Mr. Romney would have to rack up electoral votes to reach the magic number of 270 that would win him the presidency.

“A 3-2-1 strategy will get him there,” wrote Mr. Rove, in an opinion piece for the Wall Street Journal.

The strategy boils down to a road map that shows where Mr. Romney must focus his energy and his campaign dollars. By targeting certain states, in a certain order, Mr. Rove believes the presidential race could prove a lot closer than most people think.

A recent CBS/New York Times poll showed Mr. Romney with a three-percentage-point lead against President Barack Obama, who, in 2008, captured the White House with a resounding 365 electoral votes against rival John McCain’s 173.

Mr. Rove takes those states that Mr. McCain won as his starting point, before sketching out how Mr. Romney must proceed to put him over the top.

First, he must win the “3” states of Indiana, North Carolina and Virginia, historically Republican states that Mr. Obama managed to flip to the Democrats’ ledger last time around.

Next, he needs to win “2” – Florida and Ohio – showdown states that switched from Republican in 2004 to Democratic in 2008. Mr. Rove says Mr. Romney is poised to get them back. In Florida, Mr. Obama holds less appeal for Latino voters and, in Ohio, he struggled to win over white working-class voters, Mr. Rove argues.

The “1” state in Mr. Rove’s equation is less clear. New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin all are cited as potential states that would add up to a tipping point.

Based on this calculus, Mr. Rove asserts, “the odds now narrowly favour a Romney win.”

For others, however, the numbers don’t add up.

With election day more than five months away, the polls alone are not yet predictive of a winner. States that appear winnable to Mr. Romney right now might not look the same in a few months, Democratic strategists say.

Moreover, some say focusing on the state-by-state races is misguided.

“It strikes me that Romney’s got to do a lot to win this one,” said James Carville, a Democratic strategist.

“This is going to be decided on a national basis and not a state-by-state basis. The states always fall in. What’s important is capturing the country-wide popular vote,” he says.

The Democrats have shown, in the last election, that they can win states that are traditional Republican strongholds. The Republicans, by contrast, have had less success over the past decade flipping states in their favour.

“I believe President Obama has more ways to put together 270 electoral votes than [Mr.] Romney does. Never underestimate the Obama electorate, which is still a new phenomenon,” says Tad Devine, a senior strategist for Al Gore’s and John Kerry’s presidential campaigns.

Mr. Carville, for his part, says the race is too close to call.

“It’s a close race, and it’s going to be dependent on some things – the economy and the candidates’ faults. Sometimes you know ahead of time whose going to win or lose. This is not one of these times,” he said.


I, personally, agree with James Carville: the race is close, closer than some (many? most?) in the media seem to think. Rove's 3:2:1 plan does plot a plausible route to the White House. Economic contractions in Europe and Asia will shake the US economy during he next few months - people are going to see their savings evaporate and will feel their pensions are under attack, all on Obama's watch. Romney can be a credible alternative. I still think that the election is Obama's to lose, he's an attractive candidate and a formidable campaigner, but Romney is not, I think going to be a pushover.
 
I don't see much of that "hopey" thingy with Obama playing out this time around......he's had 4 years, and not much, if anything, has done much to improve the economy down there....the partisanship battle is killing him....
 
GAP said:
I don't see much of that "hopey" thingy with Obama playing out this time around......he's had 4 years, and not much, if anything, has done much to improve the economy down there....the partisanship battle is killing him....

I agree. I wonder how many people now believe the honeymoon is over. Hope doesn't put a roof over your head of food in your belly. Voters want results, and swing/fickle voters more-so.
 
Mr. Carville, for his part, says the race is too close to call.

“It’s a close race, and it’s going to be dependent on some things – the economy and the candidates’ faults. Sometimes you know ahead of time whose going to win or lose. This is not one of these times,” he said.

If you feel you are in front with momentum do you say to your troops that the outcome "is too close to call"?  Or is that something you say to your troops when they feel they are well behind and you need to convince them that they have a chance and will continue working?

If Carville is using the "too close to call" line then he probably thinks the Dems don't have a chance.
 
The administration continues to choose very ill considered lines of attack for their election campaign. The narrative about Bain Capital is about to get steamrollered by Soylendra and the other Crony capitalist "fails" of the Administration. Who is in charge of the election campaign anyway?

http://pjmedia.com/blog/how-about-we-compare-the-investment-records-of-bain-capital-and-the-obama-administration/?print=1

How About We Compare the Investment Records of Bain Capital and the Obama Administration?

Posted By David H. Horwich On June 1, 2012 @ 12:05 am In Uncategorized | 23 Comments

Unbelievably, the Obama campaign seems to want to have a debate about which of the two candidates is more qualified to run the world’s largest economy. Writing earlier this [1] year I considered where the campaign seems hell-bent on going. This is a debate that can prove only disastrous for the forces of O.

To repeat what I said then: if Bain Capital buys and fails on any particular investment, the wreckage is contained to the employees of the business that was bought, the investors, and Bain management. It also means that if Bain does it too often they will be unsuccessful in raising the next round of capital.

Conversely, when the government fails, it fails on a far larger scale, particularly if the investing is done via many entities having a similar industry focus. With government investing, we all become venture capitalists, whether or not it fits our individual risk profiles.

Bain diversified itself by risking capital in a variety of industries and not going all in for any one sector. That way, its eggs are not all in one industry basket and it looks more like the overall economy.

In contrast, the administration’s attempts to invest in “green” technology, no matter what one’s views are about the efficacy of “green” technology, are a fool’s bet. Even were it able to discern winners from losers, the inevitability of bad investing in one sector should be apparent to all.

The problems for The One’s are threefold. First, he has made near-universally bad bets. Second, public entity investing possesses fundamental flaws. And third, the opportunity to make investments with politically connected business ventures has led to charges of corruption and cronyism.

Look around. Can anyone name a successful entity in which this administration has risked billions of dollars of taxpayer money? From Solyndra to LightSquared. All taxpayer money, none of it confined to only one failure and in technology whose merits none of us have any interest, expertise, and time to debate, other than for me to make the observation that Steven Chu’s fervent hope and desire that oil prices climbing much, much higher would be the first necessity for this business model to work in the real world  without needing to be propped up by the government.

Moreover, the folly associated with public entities investing in established businesses (like, say, General Motors…oops!), let alone technologies best evaluated by trained professionals, is manifest for all to see. A private equity (or even venture) investor is a highly experienced individual who has seen, invested in (and/or rejected investment in) many companies in his or her career. His existence is Darwinistic: if he doesn’t know what he’s doing and makes too many bad bets, he doesn’t get to raise the next round of fund capital and is out seeking a new career by the day after that failure.

On the other hand, a public functionary deciding to risk hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars can’t have been through the fire of investment success-or-failure, and, most importantly, doesn’t have the same interests at heart.

By definition, his or her goals are policy-driven, not return-driven, so he feels indifferent to success: he’ll keep his job regardless of failure – unless political pressure forces him out.

Which of these two would you rather see as stewards of your money? After all, it is your money.

And, of course, as Mr. Romney pointed out this week, the government investing in industries it likes has a chilling effect on private investment in those same industries. As he said, “Who wants to compete against the federal government?”

Finally, consider the opportunity for corruption or cronyism. Would it surprise anyone reading this that the largest bets that this administration ever made were to friends and contributors of Mr. Obama’s? None of us can know which of the numerous enterprises that sought public funding failed to obtain it, but would it further surprise anyone if companies owned and managed by those on the right side of the political spectrum were refused funding?

This last point damages the administration the most. By focusing on the mores of investing by private vs. public funds, the campaign opens itself up to scrutiny on charges of corruption and cronyism. Only those dyed-in-the-wool on the Left will be untroubled by the charges that have been legitimately leveled against this ship of fools.

Furthermore, it clarifies the murkiness that surrounds the House investigations into corruption charges, and makes stonewalling on document production appear even more sinister than the underlying offense.

No, if I were deeply entrenched into the den of this gang of thieves, I’d try to go anywhere but Bain v. BO investing.

This entire foray lays bare the inherent panic that must be setting in for Hope and Change 2.0. To raise these issues now plays only to one constituency, the true believers in need of daily stimulus to maintain their enthusiasm. How else to explain this focus?

Article printed from PJ Media: http://pjmedia.com

URL to article: http://pjmedia.com/blog/how-about-we-compare-the-investment-records-of-bain-capital-and-the-obama-administration/

URLs in this post:

[1] earlier this: http://cdn.pjmedia.com/blog/private-equity-101-a-mitt-romney-primer/?singlepage=true

To recap; the Administration has provided subsidies totalling 1.1 trillion on "Green" energy, yet US green energy companies provide very limited employment and produce only a tiny fraction of the energy consumed in the US. (The initiative to produce ethanol from cellulose has actually provided no ethanol fuel at all...)

Lightsquared's management provided huge campaign contributions, and were thus allowed to continue operations and receiving government loans despite the heated opposition of the US Military, who pointed out Lightsquared's proposed technology interfered with GPS signals.

Even the auto industry bailout, (setting aside the violation of normal bankruptcy laws to disown some bondholders in favour of the UAW) has put the taxpayers in a position to lose something on the order of $50 billion should the government unload GM stock at the current price.

The $800 billion stimulus package was supposed to keep unemployment from rising past 8%. Unemployment today is over 10% (by U3), and the latest figures show unemployment rising again. Continuing "stimulation" of the economy by deficit spending of over $5 trillion dollars in the last 3 years has failed to move the economy from a very sluggish pace.

So by all means, bring on the economic debate.
 
Considering the importance of this election to the Democrats and the American left in general, is it any surprise that they are trumpeting a 119% turnout of voters? This sort of thing will probably mar the November elections as well (and only serves to strengthen the arguments for voter ID laws and a much more rigerous system of registering and vetting voters):

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/05/report-voter-turnout-119-percent-in-madison

REPORT: 119% VOTER TURNOUT IN MADISON, WI

by DANA LOESCH  2 hours ago 276 POST A COMMENT

A Madison City Clerk has told a Wisconsin radio host that turnout for the area is expected at over 100%, up to 119%. What makes it all the more interesting is that this story comes from a far-left site.

Heavy turnout in Madison, a liberal stronghold, would likely benefit Democrat Tom Barrett.

This PDF from the City of Madison shows that as of 11:00 AM, voter turnout was at 25%, with 42,961 out of 165,312 registered voters already casting their ballots:
June2012Turnout

Progressives shrug the 119% figure off as evidence that people are registering at the polls to vote. Considering that Wisconsin has oddly relaxed voter ID laws and a judge granted an injunction against measures that would have protected people's votes, is it any surprise?

I'm sure Eric Holder's DOJ is on the case.

For more, check out Anita MonCrief's "The Problem with Same Day Voter Registration" here.

UPDATE: Madiscon City Clerk talks to Politico. Again, even 96% is completely unrealistic -- and why have 25% projected by 11am?
 
Must be all the out of state union members that were bused into Wisconsin.No one does voter fraud better than the democrats. Wait,thats why they are against voters showing ID at the polls. ::)
 
Perhaps another argument for hold off exporting democracy until we can sort it out?
 
Democracy is fine.Its just the damn socialists that yearn for a dictatorship thats the problem. If you look at the tactics used by the left in the US you will see much the same tactics used by the communists to gain and keep power. The use of union thugs to intimidate citizens and corporations. The use of the media to try to shape their message and attack those they view as enemies.I think in the US at least if we banned unions from getting involved in the political process we might begin to clean things up.The unions exist to represent their members with employers. I also dont favor unionizing government workers.
 
Defections by high ranking Democrats and public statements by other Democrat leaders which are (or can be interpreted as being) against the policies of the Obama administration cannot be doing the election campaign any good. One figure who was not mentioned in the article was former President Bill Clinton, who's remarks (including one at a fundraiser where he reportedly said "“Remember me? I’m the only guy that gave you four surplus budgets out of the eight I sent.”) can be seen as sticking a fork into the current President. Another metric which makes this a very interesting election:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152442/Former-Democratic-congressman-Artur-Davis-registers-Republican-election.html#ixzz1wSEHlNTM

Top Democrat known as ‘the second black President’ defects to Republicans
By Toby Harnden
PUBLISHED: 00:12 GMT, 31 May 2012 | UPDATED: 00:13 GMT, 31 May 2012

A former Democratic congressman and leading 2008 supporter of Barack Obama who was often referred to jokingly as ‘the second black President’ has switched his voter registration in preparation for a possible election run as a Republican.

The defection of Artur Davis, 44, Harvard-educated and a one-time rising star in the party who was the first member of Congress outside Illinois to back Obama against Hillary Clinton, is a major symbolic blow to the President.

Perhaps most damaging is Davis’ biting critique of Obama and the way the Democrats have evolved over the past four years. He left the Democratic party last December to become an independent. 

Changing teams: Former Democratic congressman Artur Davis has switched his party registration to Republican in time for his possible reelection campaign in Virginia

Now he is registering in Virginia and has made clear he is now a Republican.

At one time, Davis – like Obama, a Harvard Law graduate - was tipped as a possible Attorney general in the Obama administration.

Mitt Romney gets congratulatory call from Obama after FINALLY securing the Republican nomination (but keeps getting overshadowed by Trump during campaign trip to Las Vegas)

His dramatic move comes after Mayor Cory Booker of New Jersey, another prominent Democrat identified along with Obama and Davis as part of a new wave of black politicians, slammed the Obama campaign attacks on Mitt Romney’s Bain Capital record as ‘nauseating’.

Booker later apologised after the Obama campaign publicly lambasted him with David Axelrod, Obama’s top campaign strategist, describing his comments, quickly made into a Republican ad, him as ‘just wrong’.

Davis left the House of Representatives in 2010 to run for Alabama governor but was defeated in the Democratic primary, a loss that accelerated his disillusionment with his party.

In a blog post on Tuesday, he said he was switching his voter registration to Virginia.
In his blog, he took aim at Obama’s agenda and his failure to deliver: ‘I have regularly criticised an agenda that would punish businesses and job creators with more taxes just as they are trying to thrive again.

‘I have taken issue with an administration that has lapsed into a bloc by bloc appeal to group grievances when the country is already too fractured: frankly, the symbolism of Barack Obama winning has not given us the substance of a united country.'

The former congressman is understood to be considering challenging Gerry Connolly, a two-term Democrat representing Northern Virginia, just outside Washington, where Davis now works for a law firm. Running against Connolly, however, would be a tough challenge.

Davis portrayed Obama’s Democratic party as having abandoned its more centrist heritage and as dividing America. 

‘My personal library is still full of books on John and Robert Kennedy, and I have rarely talked about politics without trying to capture the noble things they stood for.

‘I have also not forgotten that in my early thirties, the Democratic Party managed to engineer the last run of robust growth and expanded social mobility that we have enjoyed; and when the party was doing that work, it felt inclusive, vibrant, and open-minded. But parties change.

He added that ‘this is not Bill Clinton’s Democratic Party (and he knows that even if he can’t say it)’.

Davis said that he had been encouraged to run for Congress and also the Virginia state legislature.

‘I by no means underestimate the difficulty of putting together a campaign again, especially in a community to which I have no long-standing ties,' he wrote.

'I have a mountain of details to learn about this northern slice of Virginia and its aspirations, and given the many times I have advised would-be candidates to have a platform and a reason for serving, as opposed to a desire to hold an office, that learning curve is one I would take seriously.'

There is growing discontent with Obama and his re-election campaign in some Democrats quarters and an increasing willingness to speak publicly about it.

Last week, Ed Rendell, a former Pennsylvania governor and Democratic National Committee chairman vented his dismay over Obama’s attacks on Bain Capital, the private equity firm Romney once led.

‘I think they're very disappointing,’ Rendell, speaking on MSNBC, said when describing the ads that paint Romney as a predatory profiteer who exploited workers and built his fortune on the backs of the poor.

When asked whether he was for or against the Obama campaign, he responded: ‘Neither.’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2152442/Former-Democratic-congressman-Artur-Davis-registers-Republican-election.html#ixzz1x9BmETzp
 
You can just feel the love from former President Clinton. I suspect (as do many people in the Blogosphere) that President Clinton is taking his revenge on the Obama team and the Democrat party for bypassing Hillary as the Presidential candidate in the 2008 election, but canny politician that he is, his remarks are subtle enough to stick a fork in President Obama without providing an opening for Governor Romney's team. I wonder if there is some medium profile Democrat right now who will be getting the support and blessing of the Clinton's for 2016 (since I think Hillary might not be a contender by then):

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/06/07/bill_clinton_median_income_now_lower_than_when_i_left_office.html

Bill Clinton: Median Income Now Lower Than When I Left Office

RELATED VIDEOS | expand
"Those rates -- the problem with that and why I think they should be extended for the bottom 98% is that median income, after inflation, is lower than it was the day I left office," former President Bill Clinton said on CNN's "The Situation Room" on Thursday afternoon.

"So those people who would be affected by that, many, many of them have had no income increases in a decade while their costs have gone up. So you really would have a contractionary economic impact. It would be very bad for the economy if those folks in the bottom 98% had to shoulder a tax increase," Clinton told CNN host Wolf Blitzer.
 
Sythen said:
You also mention being constrained by congress, but who was that MSNBC personality who said Obama should bypass the "bought congress" and essentially take power to push things through he wanted? If I were home, I'd post links to it from youtube, but instead of being brushed off as an extremeist, this guy was applauded and held up as a hero for saying these things. In the next term, if congress puts a stop to some of the Obama initiatives, who is to say he won't try?

More to add to my previous comment above, this article on CNN by Dean Obeidallah:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/08/opinion/obeidallah-liberals-obama/index.html?hpt=hp_bn7

From the article:

What's clear is that the liberals speaking out don't want a president, they want a king. Albeit a liberal king -- but still a king, who would be unrestrained by Congress as well as the checks and balances enshrined in our Constitution.

These disenchanted liberals apparently wanted Obama -- upon taking office -- to have instantly transformed every campaign promise into law by the simple wave of a pen. Or maybe they would have preferred Obama to have walked out onto a White House balcony where, in a scene reminiscent of the musical "Evita," he would be greeted by adoring throngs waiting below, and on the spot, declare that all his ideas were now the law of the land.
 
Counterpoint to the "Life of Julia" ad from the Obama campaign. Emily O’Neill provides a very refreshing POV to Julia the moocher. Her YouTube presentation is here

You’ve Met Julia the Moocher, Now Meet Emily

June 11, 2012 by Dan Mitchell

The Obama campaign’s “Life of Julia” ad is a disturbing sign. It suggests that political strategists, pollsters, and campaign advisers must think that the people living off government are getting to the point where they can out-vote the people paying for government.

If that’s true, America is doomed to become another Greece – which would be an appropriate fate since, for all intents and purposes, Julia is the fictional twin of a real-life Greek woman who thought it was government’s job to give her things.

In general, I think the best response to Julia is mockery, which is why I shared this Iowahawk parody and this Ramirez cartoon.

But we also need a serious discussion of why dependency is a bad thing, which is why I’m glad the Center for Freedom and Prosperity has produced this new “Economics 101″ video.

It’s narrated by Emily O’Neill, who contrasts the moocher mentality of Julia with how she wants her life to develop. To give away the message, she wants the kind of fulfillment that only exists when you earn things.

Emily’s view could be considered Randian libertarianism, conventional conservatism, or both. That’s because there’s a common moral belief in both philosophies that government-imposed coercion and redistribution erode the social capital of a people.

This is perhaps the key issue for America’s future, which is why I hope you’ll share this video widely. Otherwise, we my face a future where this Chuck Asay cartoon becomes reality. Speaking of Asay, this cartoon is a pretty good summary of what the Julia ad is really saying.
 
Friday morning funnies.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/its-an-obama-world-23-of-small-business-owners-went-a-year-without-pay/obama-restraining-order/
 
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