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U.S. 2012 Election

On Nov 6 Who Will Win President Obama or Mitt Romney ?

  • President Obama

    Votes: 39 61.9%
  • Mitt Romney

    Votes: 24 38.1%

  • Total voters
    63
  • Poll closed .
Brad Sallows said:
>McCain raises an excellent question regarding the Court's ability to rule on such matters that they clearly had no understanding of.

Indeed; it's almost as bad as legislatures creating and passing legislation on matters they clearly have no understanding of.

Situations improved when legislators are given three days to review 1000 pages of legislation (to which any manner of irrelevancies can be appended) and the Court is offered 2700 pages to describe the same legislation and asked to rule on it.

Brevity is not just the soul of wit.
 
Thucydides said:
The alternate universe explanation is interesting; George W. Bush could apparently cause everything; and the evidence is quite clear he did cause a rapid reduction in global oil prices byu signing the executive order opening up areas for drilling in 2008.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. As has been aptly illustrated there is no evidence which supports this by showing causation.

Thucydides said:
OTOH your argument seems to be situational: perhaps only Presidents who's names are George W Bush can effect change?

This is an even more ridiculous statement. No President can control the global market for a commodity, period.

Thucydides said:
Once again you fail to take into account the very public statements by the President and members of the administration, both as to how the public see them and also as to how the global market sees them. As well, you seem to discount the impact of the Samizdat campaign: a person pulling up to a pump and being already disgruntled by + 4.00/gallon at the pump now has an immidiate reminder of who is to blame. Multiply that by millions of people filling up nation wide...

Well, I doubt the campaign is that widespread, or is getting that much attention, other than in the right's echo chamber dreamworld. Why not? Because I suspect that people are going to be demanding more. And an honest candidate will be forced to concede the reality - that gas prices cannot be controlled by the White House. And that's leaving aside the pervasive rich irony of the bold defenders of the free market whining about prices and demanding government do something about it all at once.
 
The election ads are starting . . . looks like it will an outstanding crop this time.  Both sides have big bucks to spend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-Czo5Vf8KZs

 
Haletown said:
The election ads are starting . . . looks like it will an outstanding crop this time.  Both sides have big bucks to spend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-Czo5Vf8KZs

Nice one!  lol  Love it!  Not sure what exactly the message here is... perhaps that those evil Russians are gonna get us if Obama wins?  Think i'll get back to work on my bunker and watch Red Dawn a few times.
 
Haletown said:
The election ads are starting . . . looks like it will an outstanding crop this time.  Both sides have big bucks to spend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-Czo5Vf8KZs

As if gun sales in the US of A aren't high enough already.  ;)
 
Think I'll get back to work on my bunker and watch Red Dawn a few times

Actually Red Dawn remake is scheduled for Nov 2012 release.  :shooter2:

Related - Wonder what Obama has been smoking when he takes shots at the "Unelected" Supreme court.

It's going to be extra nasty
 
Hardly the sort of campaign that I would choose (defending real unemployment rates of over 10% and a stagnant and sluggish economy? Defending crony capitalism and offering more of the same?), but this is the current meme the Administration and the Democrats are going with:

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2012/04/06/Obamas-Big-Spending-Vision-Gives-Romney-an-Edge.aspx?p=1

Obama's Big Spending Vision Gives Romney an Edge
By EDWARD MORRISSEY, The Fiscal Times April 6, 2012

With the Republican nomination almost in the bag, Barack Obama and his likely opponent, Mitt Romney gave competing visions of America in two dramatic speeches this week.  Both argued for change, but only one offered any kind of course correction at all.

Let’s start with President Obama, who spoke on Tuesday at a luncheon hosted by the Associated Press and attended by journalists.  Obama clearly wanted to steal a little of Romney’s thunder from an anticipated – and realized – three-contest sweep on April 3rd.  In contrast to his 2008 campaign theme of Hope and Change, Obama's AP speech offered a defense of the status quo, as well as smirking attacks on his presumed foe in the upcoming presidential election.  If anyone expected Obama to offer new directions for the US after a three-year period of economic stagnation and a seven-month strategy of class warfare, they would have come away profoundly disappointed.

One might have thought that the man who finally acknowledged over a year and a half ago the fantasy of his promised “shovel-ready jobs” would have a different economic plan for his second term.  Instead, Obama offered more of the same, insisting that the government needed to seize more funds through tax increases for further “investments” in infrastructure and other Obama priorities.  In fact, the word “investment” appears a dozen times in his remarks, and in some curious contexts.

First, Obama insisted that Abraham Lincoln “invested” in the Transcontinental Railroad, a favorite chestnut of his speeches which he uses to paint Republicans as historically extreme.  However, the government mostly stayed out of the way of its construction, and the limited government funding that did get applied came from the sale of bonds on a voluntary basis, not from taxes seized in Buffett Rules or any other redistributive methods.  The bonds and the interest got paid by the railroads in the end, not the government.

In another example, Obama proclaimed Richard Nixon’s establishment of the EPA as another “investment.” As anyone who has had to deal with the EPA well knows, that agency does not promote investment, but usually acts to frustrate it.  Just ask the Sacketts, who invested in land in Idaho to build a home for themselves, only to get blocked by the EPA which declared it retroactively to be “wetlands,” and refused to allow the Sacketts access to judicial review of their order.  The Supreme Court unanimously slapped down the EPA for its tyrannical approach to the Sacketts, but the agency still interferes with private property rights, especially when it comes to the infrastructure of energy production.

Finally, in a moment of sheer irony, Obama offered the example of the Eisenhower Interstate System as an “investment” that proved its worth.  President Eisenhower built the system for strategic military purposes first, and for commercial development of the U.S. second.  Following his experiences in Europe after D-Day, the former Supreme Head of Allied Expeditionary Forces understood the necessity of being able to rapidly move heavy arms to a nation’s borders.  More ironically, the Eisenhower System cost in 2006 dollars roughly half of the eventual cost of the Obama stimulus package, $425 billion to $840 billion, and delivered an entire national highway system capable of defending the nation’s borders.  Obama’s stimulus package delivered phantom “shovel ready jobs” and a huge addition to the debt while failing to dent the trajectory of unemployment.

Obama didn’t have any kind words for Romney's expressed support for the Paul Ryan budget plan, which recently passed in the House. In contrast, Obama’s budget failed to get one Democratic vote – for the second year in a row.  He poked fun at Romney’s use of the word “marvelous” in connection with budgets, without acknowledging that the only word to use for budgets in the Senate – as controlled by Obama’s party – would be “non-existent.”

Obama also asserted that Ronald Reagan chose to make investments, proposed tax increases, and spending cuts to balance the budget, but that Reagan “could not get through a Republican primary today.  That’s rather rich coming from a President who has presided over trillion-dollar deficits in all three years of his presidency – the first coming from the FY2009 budget that Capitol Hill Democrats (including then-Senator Obama) kept from George W. Bush in 2008 and which Obama signed in March 2009 after a series of continuing resolutions.

Romney, of course, balanced four budgets as governor of Massachusetts, even with a heavily Democratic legislature.  His speech on Tuesday night went more to the heart of the question voters will face in November.  While Obama offered a “stay the course” approach earlier in the day, Romney responded by reminding voters exactly what that course has produced:

“Millions have lost their homes. A record number of Americans are now living in poverty. And the most vulnerable are the ones that have been hurt the most. Thirty percent of single moms are now living in poverty.  New business startups -- and that's normally where we get job growth after a recession -- new business startups are down to the lowest level in 30 years. And of course, you know our national debt is at a record high. And when you drive home tonight and you stop by the gas station, just take a look at the prices. And then ask yourself, four more years of that?”

Romney drew a bright line between himself and Obama on visions for America.  Obama, he said, sees America as a “government-centered society [where] the government has to do more because the economy is doomed to do less.”  Instead, Romney sees America as a nation where property rights allow people to make good economic choices that benefit everyone.  Instead of tax increases imposed for “social justice,” Romney wants tax reform to accelerate investment and return to post-World War II patterns of recovery and economic growth that Obama’s central planning and increased regulation has disrupted.  The alternative, Romney warned, was a path that other Western nations have already trodden to “chronic high unemployment, crushing debt and stagnant wages” – a pattern we have already seen as the hallmark of the Obama economy.

The two likely presidential candidates have made their visions clear.  One wants a commitment to the stagnant status quo and a continuation of the fruitless economic policies that are aimed at resentment rather than growth.  The other offers a return to sensible American values and economic policy.  In the fall, that choice will be very clear indeed, and it will make the election a referendum on stagnation.  By November, America will be ready for change … back.
 
The GOP could face a huge voter backlash if they continue to overreach based on misinterpretation of the 2010 election results.

Prime example: The GOP in Michigan have essentially suspended the democratic process and ignored the State Constitution in order to push through an agenda that has suspended union rights, forced takeover of duly elected local government, eliminated government benefits to domestic partners of state employees, along with other hot button issues which have resulted in a backlash in other states and at the federal level.

As background, back in the 60's prior to Mitt Romney's father becoming Governor, Micigan amended it's Constitution to require a waiting period of 90 days after the term ends before any law passed in that term comes into effect. So a law passed in January would not come into effect until March of the next year, as the term essentially runs the full calendar year. This was to allow the public time to petition for a referendum to repeal laws that were unpopular.

However, the amendment includes a clause to allow for a law to come into immediate effect upon consent by a 2/3 majority in both the State House and Senate. This allows laws intended to address urgent matters to be able to come into force when needed.

Since taking control of both House and Senate and the Governor's Office, The Michigan GOP has passed 566 bills, 546 of which received consent for immediate effect.

The problem is that the State House is split 63 GOP to 47 Dem. Not a 2/3 majority by anyone's math. So many of the bills which only passed on party line votes received immediate effect consent even though all of the Dems voted against the original legislation. Somehow the GOP were able to pull off a miracle and get a dozen Dems to vote for immediate effect.

The Democrats have sued the State Legislature in State Court to suspend the implementation of the laws under immediate effect. They won the first round and received an injunction on the implementation of the laws. The GOP as expected are planning to appeal.

If the Michigan GOP continues to overreach as they have been, it's going to be very difficult for Mitt Romney to win the State in November. And he's going to need every electoral vote he can get.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/06/11060678-about-that-michigan-story?lite
 
Behind all the thud and blunder of the campaign are these issues. Notice that where reality has set in, even Democrat Governors and Mayors have read the tea leaves and are abanoning the Blue model. I suspect that post progressive society will be growing from the bottom up as hard pressed communities abandon the blue model under fiscal pressure. Dumping programs and the staffs that run them will be the order of the day regardless of who wins the election, the downline elections will be the catalyst for true changes to the body politic and society in general:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/04/07/obama-nails-his-blue-colors-to-the-mast/

Obama Nails His Blue Colors to the Mast
WALTER RUSSELL MEAD

The past few years have seen a number of blue-state Democratic governors—from California to New York to Vermont—driven by dire fiscal situations to attack the blue model. Yet this tide of reform washing over the Democratic Party at the state level still hasn’t gone national.

Up until recently, President Obama had been somewhat vague on this issue, but with campaign season beginning in earnest this is quickly changing. In a statement on Tuesday, Obama did more than blast the budget proposed by the House GOP; he stepped out as the defender in chief of big blue. The New York Times reports that Obama attacked the GOP budget as “an attempt to impose a radical vision on our country” and as “thinly veiled social Darwinism” due to its plan for lower taxes on high-earners and significant restructuring of government programs like Medicaid. Though Obama did not respond with a coherent budget proposal of his own, he did sketch out the broad outlines of his proposed response: higher taxes on the wealthy and increased spending on education, police, and other local services.

The Republican budget may or may not be the way forward, and there is doubtless much to criticize within it. Yet Obama’s response hardly advances the debate, reading as it does like a laundry-list of blue dream ideas that have dominated Democratic thinking for decades. Rather than proposing an alternative model for the future to compete with the GOP’s, the President appears content to run on what is essentially a stand pat program: the only thing wrong with the blue social model is that it is underfunded.

The difference between national and local Democrats on this issue has a lot to do with printing presses. States don’t manage their own currencies and so can’t run up debts like the Feds. Governors and mayors have been disciplined by reality: when there isn’t any money, you have to learn to do more with less (and in some cases, you just have to do less). Public sector unions have to be confronted; government has to think carefully about how to organize itself and prioritize spending.

Moreover, there is a much closer and more obvious link between tax policy and economic growth at the state level. States like Illinois that keep raising taxes start to feel competition from tax cutters like Indiana and Wisconsin. Companies shift operations, jobs and headquarters from state to state more often than from country to country. States have become better at competing for investment than the federal government, where all these bread and butter questions have seemed somehow less urgent.

As fiscal realism undercuts blue fundamentalism at the state level, blue Democrats around the country look more and more to Washington as their savior. With its deficit spending ability and the very wide tax net it can cast, the federal government is virtually the only place in America where big blue ideas still look possible. Obamacare is one such; blues also look to Washington for the funds to pump into inefficient educational and government systems around the country. What the states can’t or won’t pay for, Washington will subsidize or mandate and increasingly state and local governments (to say nothing of colleges and universities) depend on federal largesse — in part because so much of their money goes to fulfill federal mandates.

In making himself the standard bearer of blue, President Obama is faithfully representing the instincts and the interests that animate his supporters. And he remains a distinctly darker shade of blue than the “New Democrats” of the 1990s for whom reform was more important than shoring up the old ways of life. Yet it remains interesting to see that even President Obama has (particularly on educational issues) been forced by reality in the direction of reform. Beyond the public sector union movement, where all anybody can think about is how to get more funds to shovel into the machine, even the staunchest defenders of the blue social model must these days pay some attention to the need for results. Even Obamacare has more of a cost-cutting agenda and is somewhat less statist than past Democratic grand designs for the medical system.

Elections are about choices, and President Obama is to be commended for nailing his blue colors to the mast. The dust is still settling from the primary campaign on the GOP side and it is a bit too soon to know how the presumptive nominee Mitt Romney will define his agenda for the general election. What the country has had since 2000 is a series of elections in which Democrats by and large are trying to defend a status quo that isn’t working, and Republicans talk about changing it but have a muddled (at best) idea about what to do in its place.

Voters are divided. There is a hard core blue group that depends either on the services and income transfers that the blue model offers (though less effectively and with fewer guarantees for the future as time goes on) or on the salaries that blue government pays. And there is a significant business lobby that benefits from special connections with government spending.

There is a beyond blue group as well: libertarians, populists, fiscal hawks, and businesses small and large who think that lower taxes and less regulation would help them better than special government subsidies or more government contracts.
And there are those in the middle, who acknowledge a need for reform but think that reform should be careful and incremental. They would like to see the blue system pruned back rather than clear cut, and don’t want to destroy the old systems until we have a clearer idea about what we would do instead. They are worried about huge federal deficits and the growing role of government in the economy, but they are also concerned about the pressing social problems — like access to health care and education — that government programs attempt to address.

In 2012 this third, decisive group of voters is going to be asking, first, how well have the President’s economic programs been working. If the economy seems to be in good shape on Election Day and moving in the right direction, these voters are likely to conclude that the case for change may not be as urgent as many feared in, say, 2010. They will also be looking at sustainability: are programs like Obamacare and Medicare sustainable, or are they short term fiscal giveaways that are fun now, but will have to be cut back to survive. The size of the budget deficit is likely to influence their thinking on this question.

President Obama will have to convince these voters that America can stay blue without economic stagnation or drowning in red ink. If he can do that, he will likely win. Inertia is a powerful force in politics, and if people don’t think they need to do uncomfortable or risky things, they will generally opt for repose.

His opponents will have to make the contrary cases: that the need for reform is urgent, and that the reforms they have in mind are well thought out, no harsher or rasher than they need to be, and likely to achieve key goals of blue programs (like helping the poor, educating the young, caring for the old and the sick) but in a more sustainable way. So far, Republicans have almost entirely depended on the first of these three arguments: that reform is urgently needed. They have done considerably less well convincing voters that they have a balanced, sensible, small ‘c’ conservative plan that will do what blue programs want to do, but at less cost.

Except in the field of education, where charter schools and vouchers are the kind of post-blue proposals that voters instinctively get, post-blue social and economic policy remains underdeveloped. There are no policy proposals for health, higher education, or many other policy areas which have the natural appeal that parental choice has in K-12 education. Dems say that is because no such options exist or can exist; blue is the only way to go if you want to deal with important social issues. Build the bureaucracy or starve the orphans: there is no other choice.

Right now, the GOP depends on blue failure to motivate swing voters to shift its way. That isn’t a weak position exactly: since 1968 Republicans have won seven presidential elections and lost four. But the absence of a compelling reform agenda means that Republicans have not been able to emerge as the kind of natural party of government they were between the Civil War and the Depression, and that the Democrats were between 1932 and 1968.

Even with a stronger economy, President Obama’s heel of Achilles in 2012 is the nagging doubt voters have that his vision can work. His opponent’s will be that too many voters, worried about the future of blue, don’t think the GOP has reasonable or workable alternatives to policies whose sustainability they doubt. Between now and the start of the real election campaign around Labor Day, President Obama needs to hope and pray that the economy continues to heal. And Mitt Romney and those around him need to try to craft some concrete reform ideas that will both attract and reassure voters.

The 2012 election will feature its share of negative campaigning, political flim flam and demagogic attacks. But there is an important question at its core: is America better off moving farther away from the blue model or should we stick where we are for a while. Via Meadia looks forward to seeing how the two candidates make their case.
 
Last election the New Black Panthers just intimidated voters at polling stations.  This time, they are trying to ride the Race Baiting Industry to new heights.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action

I'm sure POTUS Obama will denounce these racists before his daughters can be influenced by these folks.

 
Haletown said:
Last election the New Black Panthers just intimidated voters at polling stations.  This time, they are trying to ride the Race Baiting Industry to new heights.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action

I'm sure POTUS Obama will denounce these racists before his daughters can be influenced by these folks.


Like they pointed out on the Daily Show, they'll need to get more members than the same three guys the show every time they make the news.
 
Haletown said:
Last election the New Black Panthers just intimidated voters at polling stations.  This time, they are trying to ride the Race Baiting Industry to new heights.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/04/08/New-Black-Panthers-Call-For-Race-War-Blood-Shed-Kill-Crackers-For-Trayvon-April-9th-Day-of-Action

I'm sure POTUS Obama will denounce these racists before his daughters can be influenced by these folks.

The New Black Panthers? Like, both of them?

You know that no one who's capable of thinking critically sees them as anything more than a tiny, ridiculous joke right?

You also surely know that anything that has Breitbart's name on it isn't really trustworthy, right?
 
Redeye said:
The New Black Panthers? Like, both of them?
You are deliberately under-reporting their numbers. By 33%

cupper said:
Like they pointed out on the Daily Show, they'll need to get more members than the same three guys the show every time they make the news.

;D
 
You also surely know that anything that has Breitbart's name on it from the media isn't really trustworthy, right?
 
Technoviking said:
You are deliberately under-reporting their numbers. By 33%

;D

:rofl:

Yes, I suppose I am. Every time I see them mentioned though I have the same sort of response, the "really, you're that dumb?! response.
 
Jim Seggie said:
Apparently Santorum has/will pull the pin on his run for the Republican nomination.

Confirmed

Here, from the CTV:

Rick Santorum quit the U.S. presidential campaign Tuesday, clearing the way for Mitt Romney to claim the Republican nomination.
Santorum, appearing with his family in his home state of Pennsylvania, told supporters the race for him was over, but the fight to defeat President Barack Obama in November's general election would go on.
 
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